Berry is a capable scorer and I agree a lot of his success was due to the players surrounding him. Next season will be different, he will have to put the team on his back and look to score more. I think unc will be a good team, but not a final 4 team.
Joel Berry
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I don't think they are a final four team next year but him leading their team they will be top 10. He is a very good player and in my opinion drove the car this year. He was their second best player and next year will be their best player. I hate unc more than anyone but let's take off some of the dark blue shades for a few seconds here. I felt last year he was their best option, luckily Roy was a moron and didn't give him the keys. Now this year he showed what he could do. Very solid college pg, anyone comparing him to ty Thornton is just a huge homer, he's light years better than him.
UNC will be good if everyone returns, they have no injuries, and they play with heart/toughness. During the ACC tourn and the NCAAs they played with heart, which hasn't always been the case the last couple of years. Any key injury could cripple this team.
Not yet, aah, but as you've seen for years with Duke players, they improve and watch what happens this season when Berry doesn't have to cater to Paige anymore.
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I think berry is NBA ready. I also think kennedy meeks is ready along with britt, jackson, pinson and hicks. I think all if they declare will be in the NBA next year. Of course if that happens we Duke fans are going to have to deal with BIG luke maye and kenny " tar heel radar wiiliams." 
OFC.
OFC.Jackson, hicks, pinson and Meeks with berry is a pretty damn good core.
One thing I've noticed is that fans rarely take into account players from other programs improving year-to-year.
Oh, I don't know about that. Paige's soph emergence coincided w/ the departure of PJ Hughston, Reggie Bullock, and Dexter Strickland, and a year later, McAdoo left. Their defense got much more solid overall then, too, by my recollection. I haven't doubted their heart or character since then.
For some reason this team screams 2009/2010 all over again. I get it that unc could return a bunch of experience players, however, Im not sold on Meeks and Pinson replacing what Johnson and Paige provided for unc. Keep in mind Pinson and Meeks are role players at best.
Maybe more heart, especially Paige and Johnson, but they still were a bit flaky until the post season. Duke had no business beating them in the Dome and still could have/would have again at home if not for missing a bunch of wide open, non contested 3s towards the end. The almost got beat by 0-18 BC. I know every team has off nights, but for a good bit of this season, they did not play like one of the most talented and most experienced teams in the land. I definitely give them credit for putting it all together at the end of the year.
I think UVA with Nichols might be in the argument for 2nd best team in ACC next year.
I think UVA with Nichols might be in the argument for 2nd best team in ACC next year.
Same here. I doubted them going into '05-'06 and that came back to haunt me. My expectations were equally off for them in '09-'10, but I'll take that pleasant surprise every now and then. Roy is certainly perceived as more bumbling than Bennett, who arguably loses more this coming year, but he has also been under the microscope much more, and he has certainly had higher highs while Bennett still gets a bit of a pass for our being slow on the uptake that he's pretty dern good.
UNC, Louisville, and UVa all stand to be pretty good for lack of an obvious team behind them who is primed to explode. A darkhorse for top 2-3 in the ACC might be Syracuse. Their FF run was a surprise and they lose Gbinije and Cooney, but they had some freshmen step up big in the NCAAT. If Blossomgame returns at Clemson, they'll return their only 3 double figure scorers. Aw, I should probably save this for an ACC prediction thread or something.
I think Lville and UVA will be good next year and possibly better than UNC.. UNC is always a wild card, they've underachieved so much that u never know what you'll get. I don't trust Roy to turn them into a winner and they lose the two key pieces from this year. Joel is a good player for sure and he'll lead them next year and prob avg 18+ ppg (if he doesn't they will be in serious trouble) but the supporting pieces aren't too spectacular but they will no doubt improve. One thing I know for certain.. We won't be touched next year in conference. I'm not by any means saying we go undefeated in conf but no team with us playing well will touch us.
UNC will be top 2 or 3 in the ACC. I think I would put UVA in front of them for a couple reasons. Both teams lose two significant pieces, but the players UVA brought in last year as well as the ones they are bringing in now are probably better than their UNC counterparts. Nichols will step right in for Gill with no drop off, and the Diakite kid will play now. Bennett is bringing in his first McDonald's AA, a guard who will ease the loss of Brogden, in addition to another top 50 guard to provide perimeter depth. Add Perrantes, Thompson, Wilkins, Shayok, and Hall and I think it's a group tailor made for Bennett's style.
Roy is a H of Famer (and Shamer) IMO...Historically hes done a good job w/recruiting and despite coming ever so close this year I see them Sweet 16 at best next yr....
Roy requires an AMAZING amount of talent to win it all, and can blow it all in less than 5 seconds without the right defense called...His best coaching move is his windmill right arm imploring his Heels to race it up court...Its comical, Pinson was yelling from bench for someone to " pick up Jenkins," and it fell on deaf ears...
My point in all this: Despite all the returnees next yr, Berry was shut down 2nd half Monday nite, and I dont see Roy as the coach to develop reliable "go to guys" w/o Paige and "Angry Brice." Those guys coming back will see defenses focused on them they've never seen before...
OFC
Roy requires an AMAZING amount of talent to win it all, and can blow it all in less than 5 seconds without the right defense called...His best coaching move is his windmill right arm imploring his Heels to race it up court...Its comical, Pinson was yelling from bench for someone to " pick up Jenkins," and it fell on deaf ears...
My point in all this: Despite all the returnees next yr, Berry was shut down 2nd half Monday nite, and I dont see Roy as the coach to develop reliable "go to guys" w/o Paige and "Angry Brice." Those guys coming back will see defenses focused on them they've never seen before...
OFC
Not Luke Maye!!!! That dancing alone is enough to scare anyone awayI think berry is NBA ready. I also think kennedy meeks is ready along with britt, jackson, pinson and hicks. I think all if they declare will be in the NBA next year. Of course if that happens we Duke fans are going to have to deal with BIG luke maye and kenny " tar heel radar wiiliams."
Wow. Just. Wow...
Posted: Today 2:29 AM Re: Berry Returning, Aiming for Another Final Four Run
HickamHeel
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Berry is a fabulous player. He and Brice put this team on their backs most of the year. If he returns we are the sure-fire #1 next season.
Posted: Today 2:29 AM Re: Berry Returning, Aiming for Another Final Four Run
HickamHeel
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Berry is a fabulous player. He and Brice put this team on their backs most of the year. If he returns we are the sure-fire #1 next season.
Sure. But, in the case of Berry, I think you and others are overstating the kid's upside. He's a good collegiate player -- ala Quinn Cook. But there's a reason why no repubtable draft boards even have Berry listed as potential 2nd round pick in the 2017 draft -- let alone the 2016 draft. Berry does a lot of good things. But he doesn't have any elite skills that make him unguardable by teams that focus their attention -- even as compared to someone like Cat Barber, who had better size and far better speed. I think he'll put up good numbers and be a very productive player on most nights. But, IMO, there's only so far a team can go if it relies too heavily on a PG with his size, athleticism, and skillset. As much as I loved QCook's sr. year, reality is that when push came to shove -- we were national champions in 2015 b/c teams could not stop Tyus, Justise, Grayson, and at times Okafor. Berry -- while a nice player -- is highly unlikely to ever become the type of player that you can't lock-up if a good team makes it a priority. I just don't think Berry is the type of player who can carry the perimeter scoring / playmaking of an offense that is now pretty limited with Paige's departure.
I simply disagree. People think Berry was made better by Paige being around, and while I think there's something to be said about that, I think Berry, in large part, deferred too often to Paige.
Berry isn't defined as explosive, but he's quicker, more athletic, a better defender and a much better shooter than Quinn as a sophomore. If the argument here is that Berry isn't an NBA All-Star then I agree. IMO, though, Berry is assuredly an All-ACC'er and All-American caliber college player if he stays all four years.
Berry isn't defined as explosive, but he's quicker, more athletic, a better defender and a much better shooter than Quinn as a sophomore. If the argument here is that Berry isn't an NBA All-Star then I agree. IMO, though, Berry is assuredly an All-ACC'er and All-American caliber college player if he stays all four years.
They will still be a decent team as long as Jackson stays. But they did lose their best player in Johnson and the heart of Marcus Paige.
As a soph., Quinn made 55 3s on 39.3% shooting from the 3 pt. line. Berry made 59 3s on 39.1% 3 pt. shooting. The stats just don't back it up. I would grant you that Berry played much better under the bright lights of the NCAAs than Quinn did as a soph. -- but, over the course of the year, really hard to see much of a difference at all. Quinn as a soph. averaged 11.7 ppg., 5.3. assists, 3.8 rebounds, and 1.4 steals on 41.6% from the field and 39.3% from 3. Berry as a soph. averaged 12.7 ppg, 3.6 assists, 3.2 rebounds, 1.5 steals on 43.5% from the field and 39.1% from 3. About as close as you can get. The fact that Berry went 4 of 4 on 3s in the title game shouldn't cause people to lose sight of the fact that he went 1 of 7, 1 of 5, 1 of 4, and 0 of 4 on 3s in 4 of the 6 NCAA tourney games.
Now, truthfully, I do think Berry's a little better than Quinn was at the same stage. But, I do think Berry's far closer to Quinn Cook (an all-acc guy as a Sr.) than Lawson, Felton, or any of the true UNC star PGs who often could dominate the game. My argument with Berry is that IMO he's nothing more than a good / very good collegiate player with NBA D-league talent; ala Quinn Cook -- and very unlikely to ever get drafted; let alone have an extended NBA career. I just don't see the talent level of even a Tyus Jones -- who nobody would claim is likely to become an NBA all-star. Good player. Agreed he'll likely become an All-ACC player if he stays a couple more years (maybe even next year). UNC will be good next year. But, unless they snag Ferguson at the last second, I bet next year's UNC squad will be a lot closer to UNC of 2012-15 than it will be to even last year's squad -- and hardly a clear #2 team in the league.
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Berry is one of the best shooters in the league....I imagine he will have some opportunities in the D league and maybe to make a roster in NBA at some point.
So what you've proven is that they've held similar roles.
Wayne Selden averaged 9 pts, 2 asts, 2 rebs, and 36% from three as a sophomore and he's considered a lottery pick. He was at best 3rd on the food chain on his respective teams. What does he have? Size and athleticism.
Shane Larkin, ACC POY and first round pick, averaged 14 pts (only three more than Berry) 40%, 3 Rebs and 4 asts per game. All comparable. And on a team that underachieved versus a team that made the championship game. He wasn't even looking at the draft before the second half of his season. Similar height, weight, skill set etc. The difference? An expanded role. He proved enough to scouts that he could carry his role and his team. Joel hasn't had that chance other than an occasional game here or there basis.
Joel Berry will be UNC's top dog next season. Now I hope and pray that they finish dead last in the ACC and join BC's defeated season at 0-18. But the kid has the tools to pull a Larkin (albeit one year later), if not produce more. He was a consensus top 2-5 point guard in his class, in a point guard rich class (Tyus, Mudiay, Ulis). Why is it so hard to believe that he can't produce for a team that will be picked at worst top 3 in the conference?
Without Paige, Berry gets defended tougher IMO although he certainly is a quality player...Pressure will be on the UNC 2 guard to produce offensively....
(1) Wayne Seldon is not a lottery pick; nor is he even a first round pick despite having 1st round physical attributes (something Joel Berry does not).
(2) Again, not saying that Joel won't be good. I bet he'll have a very nice year next year. But, I just don't think he's a good enough playmaker to carry an otherwise limited UNC perimeter offense that really doesn't have any other real playmakers who can create points off the bounce. Joel's very good in transition and when he gets an advantage situation over an unathletic defender. However, I think he's the type of guy you can easily get locked up with a defensive stopper with good size / athleticism -- something he often avoided b/c most teams were focusing their gameplan on Paige and defending the paint. As for where UNC fits into the ACC title picture, I think they're in a second tier with Louisville & UVA and will finish somewhere in the top 4. I don't, however, think they're the clear #2 in the league and wouldn't be surprised at all if they finish 4th or 5th in the league.