Kansas showdown

[dukiejay]

It's going to be tough to take down Kansas, but I think we have a chance. Grayson will have to have a big game and Matt is going to need to make open jumpshots....because they will be there.

As to Matt's game....are we seriously already crying? Good lord. The only thing, and I mean the only thing, Matt has been unable to say he hasn't been excellent at thus far is making jump shots. Now granted, that's got to be his bread and butter over the course of the whole season because he will get looks as the likely fifth option on the court, but let's stop with throwing kids under the bus two games into the season.

 

[Liftee]

I'm not giving up on beating Kansas. Duke beat UNC last year with 4.5 players. Tomorrow night we'll have a full 6 healthy players! What a luxury!

Anyhow I'm going to the game and with a positive attitude.

 

[Showenuff]

Things that kill us vs Kansas. Free Throws. Foul Trouble. Giles, Tatum and Bolden not playing. Ughh!

 

[chov1125]

Things that kill us tonight. Free Throws. Foul Trouble. Giles, Tatum and Bolden not playing. Ughh!

Secret scrimmage tonight?

 

[GAAP_rivals]

As to Matt's game....are we seriously already crying?

Amen. Yes, Matt shot poorly last game. But he was 3-for-6 on 3-pointers in the first game. How quickly some people forget. Any day now, I expect one of his detractors to change his handle to "MattJonesSucks."

 

[HuffyJB]

The Matt bashing, fortunately, seems to be the minority. Most of us recognize what he brings.

 

[pisgah101]

Most of you realize what he "brings" because you are afraid to say when someone isn't up to par. He's slow footed on D and can't stay in front of quick guards. His shooting has been atrocious and if it turns around great! But i don't see it happening. He should be 7th man right now with Grayson and frank playing the guards and Luke at the 3. Franks on the ball has been 100x better so far and his scoring is a lot better.

 

[Get Nasty]

Matt got his first start in three years last year. He saw good minutes last year and he played injured most of last year. He came in as a shooter and has worked on the defensive end. If he is scoring 11 ppg, then he has improved from where he started his college career at Duke. Some want him to break out and dominate with 20ppg and ten rebounds and ten steals. It's the little things he does well and helps the team. Hos scoring is a plus. By your logic, your basically saying place the only other senior who has a championship ring on the bench in hopes that someone else can bring his knowledge and leadership to the court. If that was the case, K would have already did that.

Disagree......... The only thing he can do on the offensive end is hit open shots that others create for him. When he shoots as poor as he did in ACC play last year and to start this year, it brings up clear concerns. He is a huge weakness on the offensive end. Matt doesn't take contested shots, nor should he. But he has to shoot better! No one is asking him to be a 20 and ten person, but knocking down wide open shots at a solid clip is extremely fair to expect from him.

 

[hart2chesson]

Yeah and as I have said, I think the LESS we expect of him the better....When we get everyone back, thats when Matt's contributions come to the forefront! Not as much pressure on him to produce....He can relax more, and play w/more success...

OFC

 

[Get Nasty]

No consistent play making I'll agree with, but he's generated quite a few fast breaks and threw a nice lob to Javin, our only one thus far in the regular season I believe. Which means he's able and willing to do so.

Matt has done just fine in a role he may or may not keep. I'm not sure how much more we want from him in these two games. Sure more efficiency on his jumpsuit would be nice, but 3 assists to 1 turnover I'll take and the leadership he's brought is invaluable.

We have this obsession in thinking one guy has to dribble up and pass the ball around and that's just not how the game is played anymore. Luke is typically the third person to touch the ball in a non-quick hitter possession and he leads the team with 4 assists per. On the season we have 33 assists for 62 made field goals. I don't care about level of competition, that is assisting on over 50% of our made buckets. That is the epitome of efficiency. All of that without some world beating Bobby Hurley/Jason Williams hybrid.

So yes, we do have more talent than Matt that is sitting on the bench in polo shirts. And there are three guards currently playing that have more physical gifts than Matt. And yes Matt hasn't transformed himself into some NBA All-Star. But what he has done is steadily become a leadership presence who offers the guys who will draw the opponents best defenders a solid secondary option and an exceptional teammate. On top of that, he is pretty talented at basketball himself.

So we know who he is at this point, great. As tumultuous as this season has been with injuries and "who is going to do what when whoever is on the floor", it's beneficial to have at least one steady presence is it not? That's how NBA squads are set up and if it's not obvious that K is setting his one and done teams up the same way, then I don't know what is at this point.

My comments are more to do with Matt at the point. In my eyes the PG play is crucial to be efficient at for a championship run. Yes you can argue he's been "efficient" so far this year but he was early last year too, then when we got against good competition he struggled big time. The 2 players I see that should be playing PG are Luke and Frank. They are more athletic, have better handle, and need time to get comfortable. Yes any players can bring it up the court but from a consistent standpoint we need Frank and Luke there. I think Matt will struggle at the PG spot offensively and defensively once we start playing better teams. He's already struggling shooting that has carried over from last year.

Look I'm happy we have him and his leadership, defense, etc. But 30 minutes a game is WAY too much when healthy. I really hope it's more of the 15-20 minutes by the end of December.

 

[Get Nasty]

Yeah and as I have said, I think the LESS we expect of him the better....When we get everyone back, thats when Matt's contributions come to the forefront! Not as much pressure on him to produce....He can relax more, and play w/more success...

OFC

That's my problem with our starting lineup, similar to last years. We have only 2 people that can create their own shots in our starting lineup. To me that's not putting enough pressure on the opposition and will result in long droughts offensively like last year. Now if frank starts, or when Tatum gets back, that will give us at least 3 players on the court that can create.

 

[dukiejay]

Yeah and as I have said, I think the LESS we expect of him the better....When we get everyone back, thats when Matt's contributions come to the forefront! Not as much pressure on him to produce....He can relax more, and play w/more success...

OFC

That's pretty much my thought process on it too, maybe a little different, but we're in the same ballpark.

I think Matt's weaknesses are going to shine a bit more with the current team around him. Once some of the other guys are back from injury he can just do what he's asked to do....that's to defend opposing SGs and SFs, be a leader, and knock down open shots when he's presented them.

And again, Matt wasn't right after the injury last season. It's not me making excuses, either.

 

[dukiejay]

That's my problem with our starting lineup, similar to last years. We have only 2 people that can create their own shots in our starting lineup. To me that's not putting enough pressure on the opposition and will result in long droughts offensively like last year. Now if frank starts, or when Tatum gets back, that will give us at least 3 players on the court that can create.

Right now we essentially have the same team as last year because of the injuries.

 

[HuffyJB]

I don't think anyone is contending Matt is an All-ACC player, he certainly has some deficiencies. But with all the injuries, he is going to be on the floor. He does things that K really values, he just can't have another 1-8 from 3 game against KU or Duke will be in real trouble.

 

[pisgah101]

Yeah and as I have said, I think the LESS we expect of him the better....When we get everyone back, thats when Matt's contributions come to the forefront! Not as much pressure on him to produce....He can relax more, and play w/more success...

OFC

This is true.

 

[Liftee]

Well we can discuss Matt Jones all day long (my wife can't stand him) but the truth is, K is going to play him, probably even when the Fab Freshmen (sorry about that) play, so we may as well get used to it.

 

[dukehokie]

My comments are more to do with Matt at the point. In my eyes the PG play is crucial to be efficient at for a championship run. Yes you can argue he's been "efficient" so far this year but he was early last year too, then when we got against good competition he struggled big time. The 2 players I see that should be playing PG are Luke and Frank. They are more athletic, have better handle, and need time to get comfortable. Yes any players can bring it up the court but from a consistent standpoint we need Frank and Luke there. I think Matt will struggle at the PG spot offensively and defensively once we start playing better teams. He's already struggling shooting that has carried over from last year.

Look I'm happy we have him and his leadership, defense, etc. But 30 minutes a game is WAY too much when healthy. I really hope it's more of the 15-20 minutes by the end of December.

I think the only real question I have with what you're saying is who is going to play then? Everyone, especially the staff knows Matt's shortcomings. But do we risk overplaying Luke and Frank which leads to fatigue and subsequently injury? Is Jack better than Matt? Do we try Javin or Justin at wing? IMO the answers to all of those questions is no.

I just don't get the point of complaining about Matt. Instead, I'd rather see solutions of what to do instead, and IMO it's not as cut and dry as "play him less and and play Luke more". They're already getting comparable minute distribution and Frank is playing 7 minutes less as he's being subbed with bigs and probably being preserved a bit because he is still young.

So what then? I'm sure Matt will come off the ball in time, because his best role just might be that of the 2014-15 squad, but what happens until then? K actually prepared for this as he told Matt in high school to start preparing to be a point guard.

For now, because as we keep stressing, it is the beginning of the season, and while no game is treated as meaningless, this is the time let a veteran handle the responsibilities of the team and let the young players feel it all out. How sloppy would we look if Frank just had to learn it all right now? Look at 99-2000 when Jason Williams averaged 4 TO's a game, even had 8 in what was luckily a win over Kansas.

I guess what I'm saying is that I have no issues with what the staff is doing right now, because it's going to change 3-4 more times before the season ends anyway. Duke's best teams always have.

 

[Duke It Out]

Right now we essentially have the same team as last year because of the injuries.

True, but Matt and Amile are healthy. Luke is more comfortable, and we have this guy named Frank Jackson. We are the same team for the most part, but we are a better team IMO.

I obviously don't have a crystal ball, but I think Duke wins this one. K knows we are short-handed, but this will be a statement game. Our guys will come to play.

 

[skysdad]

You go to have the faith and confidence that we can beat Kansas with what we have right now. I don't think Coach K has told the team that there's no chance. In fact I believe he has told them team he expects them to win. OFC

 

[Get Nasty]

I think the only real question I have with what you're saying is who is going to play then? Everyone, especially the staff knows Matt's shortcomings. But do we risk overplaying Luke and Frank which leads to fatigue and subsequently injury? Is Jack better than Matt? Do we try Javin or Justin at wing? IMO the answers to all of those questions is no.

I just don't get the point of complaining about Matt. Instead, I'd rather see solutions of what to do instead, and IMO it's not as cut and dry as "play him less and and play Luke more". They're already getting comparable minute distribution and Frank is playing 7 minutes less as he's being subbed with bigs and probably being preserved a bit because he is still young.

So what then? I'm sure Matt will come off the ball in time, because his best role just might be that of the 2014-15 squad, but what happens until then? K actually prepared for this as he told Matt in high school to start preparing to be a point guard.

For now, because as we keep stressing, it is the beginning of the season, and while no game is treated as meaningless, this is the time let a veteran handle the responsibilities of the team and let the young players feel it all out. How sloppy would we look if Frank just had to learn it all right now? Look at 99-2000 when Jason Williams averaged 4 TO's a game, even had 8 in what was luckily a win over Kansas.

I guess what I'm saying is that I have no issues with what the staff is doing right now, because it's going to change 3-4 more times before the season ends anyway. Duke's best teams always have.

I'm completely fine with the lineup right now. My slight tweak would be to give frank a few more minutes at the point and have him start some games so he gets accustomed. We don't have many other options at the guard positions right now, i get that. But when Tatum comes back I include him with our guards. THAT is where i'm talking about less minutes for Matt.

I see a starting lineup of
Luke/Frank
Grayson
Tatum
Amile
Bolden

Frank or Luke would be the first off the bench for the 1-3 positions, then matt is 2nd off the bench for 2-3 spot. Harry slowly works in and takes minutes away from Amile at the 4 allowing duke to constantly have 2 bigs in. Bolden is in the 20 minutes range, chase 15, then the other 5 are when we go small with Amile at the 5.

Again, I'm not complaining about the lineup RIGHT NOW. It's just when Tatum comes back I don't see room for him in the starting lineup or get over 20 minutes/game and I feel Frank/Luke are somewhat tied for the 3rd best guard. Grayson & Tatum, then Frank & Luke, then Matt.

 

[nets on nets on nets]

I want to win this game, as always. However, being down 3 lottery picks, if the game is winnable with 5 minutes left, I will be satisfied.
Kansas will be very hungry coming off of a loss.

 

[nets on nets on nets]

My two cents on Matt Jones...He is awesome to have in a role where he is asked to only space the floor and play great defense. See 2015 or the full roster of 2017.

He is a liability when asked to be a playmaker or driver, it's that simple. And with our 3 studs out, we need him to make some plays, unfortunately.

 

[timo0402]

@dukehokie summed it up pretty well for me. We've got 7 guys right now that will play and Matt is one of them. I just dont understand where the complaints are coming from. Accept the team we have right now- Matt is going to play, he's going to start and he's going to be on the floor a lot. He's nowhere near as bad as some of you are making him out to be and again I'm just not sure what your expectations of him are at this point. He's a 3 and D guy and he plays pretty solid D. He shot 3-6 in game one from deep, pretty good; in game 2 he shot 1-8 pretty bad, but he doesnt let it affect the rest of his game. Is what it is. As we get more guys back into the fold, obviously his minutes will go down and they'll go to more talented players. If he doesn't play right now then you're basically saying we want 5 guys to go 35mpg+. Good luck.

 

[dukehokie]

I'm completely fine with the lineup right now. My slight tweak would be to give frank a few more minutes at the point and have him start some games so he gets accustomed. We don't have many other options at the guard positions right now, i get that. But when Tatum comes back I include him with our guards. THAT is where i'm talking about less minutes for Matt.

I see a starting lineup of
Luke/Frank
Grayson
Tatum
Amile
Bolden

Frank or Luke would be the first off the bench for the 1-3 positions, then matt is 2nd off the bench for 2-3 spot. Harry slowly works in and takes minutes away from Amile at the 4 allowing duke to constantly have 2 bigs in. Bolden is in the 20 minutes range, chase 15, then the other 5 are when we go small with Amile at the 5.

Again, I'm not complaining about the lineup RIGHT NOW. It's just when Tatum comes back I don't see room for him in the starting lineup or get over 20 minutes/game and I feel Frank/Luke are somewhat tied for the 3rd best guard. Grayson & Tatum, then Frank & Luke, then Matt.

I don't disagree with you there at all. The only way I see him playing 25+ minutes per game by season's end, is if he really does prove to be a lockdown type defender.

I agree with @dukiejay in that his being injured hurt his ability to defend (more so than his shooting IMO). If he can really be a great defender who can shut down opposing guards, then to me, he deserves and needs to play. If not, then yes, have him come in and provide back up duty.

I'm just not ready to write off that he can actually defend how this team is going to need.

 

[dukehokie]

My two cents on Matt Jones...He is awesome to have in a role where he is asked to only space the floor and play great defense. See 2015 or the full roster of 2017.

He is a liability when asked to be a playmaker or driver, it's that simple. And with our 3 studs out, we need him to make some plays, unfortunately.

Can't argue there other than Matt isn't the total liability. Grayson had 2 and 3 turnovers respectively, Luke 0/4, Frank 2/3, Matt 2/1. 10 TO's to 13 assists in game one and 15 to 20 in the next.

This squad needs to find a way to cut down on turnovers. Those numbers aren't bad at all (41st in the nation), but offensive rebounding, free throw shooting and cutting back on turnovers are always keys to winning championships. The saving grace is that this team will create A LOT of turnovers, which consequently, is a stat where Matt leads the team.

 

[Get Nasty]

@dukehokie summed it up pretty well for me. We've got 7 guys right now that will play and Matt is one of them. I just dont understand where the complaints are coming from. Accept the team we have right now- Matt is going to play, he's going to start and he's going to be on the floor a lot. He's nowhere near as bad as some of you are making him out to be and again I'm just not sure what your expectations of him are at this point. He's a 3 and D guy and he plays pretty solid D. He shot 3-6 in game one from deep, pretty good; in game 2 he shot 1-8 pretty bad, but he doesnt let it affect the rest of his game. Is what it is. As we get more guys back into the fold, obviously his minutes will go down and they'll go to more talented players. If he doesn't play right now then you're basically saying we want 5 guys to go 35mpg+. Good luck.

I agree i'm confused if people don't think he should be playing NOW. But I think the majority of complaints come around conversation of lineups if and when this team is healthy. I for one have not seen good enough consistent play in the last 2-2.5 seasons to warrant as many minutes when we are healthy. Others seem to think he'll have a role similar to 14/15 down the stretch where he was playing 25-30 mpg. With that talent we have I hope for more of a 15-20 minute role because others are playing well.

But again, i agree that it's foolish to think he won't play 30ish mpg until we get tatum back.

 

[Get Nasty]

One last point I'll make on Matt that concerns me is how badly he is missing his shots. I had the same concerns with Luke last year because his misses were really bad at times, not so much this year. When we got to ACC play last year Matt started missing really bad. Matt has had some really bad wide open misses in the first two games. To me it's one thing if the shots aren't falling, it's another if they're not even close to going in. I've never been a fan of Matt's form. It doesn't allow him to get off contested shots, and his motion I think won't allow him to ever be consistent from deep. Although very different forms, I felt that way about Demarcus Nelson.