Killing a program

[Inky29]

I'm on this board all the time, watch practically every match, and travel from Dallas to watch matches; I say all this so no one can say that I'm just a fair-weather fan that only follows at nationals and the Big12's.

John has essentially killed this program. GOAT as a wrestler and kind of meh as a coach and Jimmy Carter level leader of a program. If you can't see this then I really can't help you. We have had "great" recruiting classes year after year. Yet amazingly you don't see the results on the mat. We are the freaking Texas Longhorns of college wrestling. I know it would be hard to flat out fire him but you need to have a conversation with him to either come up with his own exit strategy or simply be let go at the end of next season, short of a miraculous turnaround. (I'd prefer this season).

Our talent evaluation is piss poor, our roster development is piss poor, our preparation apparently is piss poor, clearly can't motivate anyone.

We have to go in a different direction. Pride and ego are killing this program. Sometimes when you find yourself in a ditch the best thing you can do is just stop digging.

Excuses are like aholes, everyone as them and they all stink. Almost guaranteed we will have the same group of folks coming in here with the same old tired excuses we've heard for 10 years. Oh if we didn't have injuries, oh we are young, oh we had guys that couldn't make weight and thus left us with a void, word vomit, word vomit, word vomit.

Without Fix we'd be a slightly better version of OU. Let that sink in.

 

[Alpha Poke]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but anyone that disagrees with the above post values John Smith as a person more than OSU Wrestling.

They aren’t the same and one is letting the other down.

 

[gif tannen]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but anyone that disagrees with this post values John Smith as a person more than OSU Wrestling.

They aren’t the same and one is letting the other down.

Curious how those inside the program view the state of things? Or to frame it better, is there anyone in the inner circle of the program that has the ability to push for change or is this going to end in a standoff with Weiberg for anything to happen?

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

I'm on this board all the time, watch practically every match, and travel from Dallas to watch matches; I say all this so no one can say that I'm just a fair-weather fan that only follows at nationals and the Big12's.

John has essentially killed this program. GOAT as a wrestler and kind of meh as a coach and Jimmy Carter level leader of a program. If you can't see this then I really can't help you. We have had "great" recruiting classes year after year. Yet amazingly you don't see the results on the mat. We are the freaking Texas Longhorns of college wrestling. I know it would be hard to flat out fire him but you need to have a conversation with him to either come up with his own exit strategy or simply be let go at the end of next season, short of a miraculous turnaround. (I'd prefer this season).

Our talent evaluation is piss poor, our roster development is piss poor, our preparation apparently is piss poor, clearly can't motivate anyone.

We have to go in a different direction. Pride and ego are killing this program. Sometimes when you find yourself in a ditch the best thing you can do is just stop digging.

Excuses are like aholes, everyone as them and they all stink. Almost guaranteed we will have the same group of folks coming in here with the same old tired excuses we've heard for 10 years. Oh if we didn't have injuries, oh we are young, oh we had guys that couldn't make weight and thus left us with a void, word vomit, word vomit, word vomit.

Without Fix we'd be a slightly better version of OU. Let that sink in.

Agree with everything but the last sentence. Without Fix, we’d be worse than ou. At least this season.

 

[Inky29]

I actually checked the scoring just to make sure before I posted that line. At the time we had 17.5 points and 11 of them were from Fix. OU has 5.5 points.

I think we added a few more thanks to Surber.

 

[Janderson123]

If 10 years ago, you told me that we were going to be in the rearview for Mizzou (DISTANT rearview), I wouldn't have believed you. But this seems to be the new normal, and it's been a couple years, with everyone saying it, but nothing changing. Not sure why to expect any different...

 

[Alpha Poke]

If 10 years ago, you told me that we were going to be in the rearview for Mizzou (DISTANT rearview), I wouldn't have believed you. But this seems to be the new normal, and it's been a couple years, with everyone saying it, but nothing changing. Not sure why to expect any different...

It’s time. There is no need to take another year to evaluate. This is headed straight south without brakes at this point.

Areas that should be an absolute strength for OSU (portal, RTC, NIL) are depressing weaknesses. And they are weaknesses mostly based on decisions by our HC and his personal beliefs rather than environmental awareness and a willingness to evolve.

 

[biocowboy]

Waiting for one fan to defend John in the staff at this point

 

[JAY45]

It seems like every option should be on the table at this point. Its going to take a comprehensive & concerted effort to get caught back up.

One seemingly obvious angle that doesn't seem to be maximized is the MMA connection. It seems like a niche unique to OSU that could add some cache. It feels like a huge miss not to have people like Cormier involved.

 

[Dally1up]

It’s time. There is no need to take another year to evaluate. This is headed straight south without brakes at this point.

Areas that should be an absolute strength for OSU (portal, RTC, NIL) are depressing weaknesses. And they are weaknesses mostly based on decisions by our HC and his personal beliefs rather than environmental awareness and a willingness to evolve.

Sounds familiar...

 

[Wrassler17]

I actually checked the scoring just to make sure before I posted that line. At the time we had 17.5 points and 11 of them were from Fix. OU has 5.5 points.

I think we added a few more thanks to Surber.

And OU is redshirting Buchanan this year, otherwise we might be about the same.

 

[bwel9339]

I'm on this board all the time, watch practically every match, and travel from Dallas to watch matches; I say all this so no one can say that I'm just a fair-weather fan that only follows at nationals and the Big12's.

John has essentially killed this program. GOAT as a wrestler and kind of meh as a coach and Jimmy Carter level leader of a program. If you can't see this then I really can't help you. We have had "great" recruiting classes year after year. Yet amazingly you don't see the results on the mat. We are the freaking Texas Longhorns of college wrestling. I know it would be hard to flat out fire him but you need to have a conversation with him to either come up with his own exit strategy or simply be let go at the end of next season, short of a miraculous turnaround. (I'd prefer this season).

Our talent evaluation is piss poor, our roster development is piss poor, our preparation apparently is piss poor, clearly can't motivate anyone.

We have to go in a different direction. Pride and ego are killing this program. Sometimes when you find yourself in a ditch the best thing you can do is just stop digging.

Excuses are like aholes, everyone as them and they all stink. Almost guaranteed we will have the same group of folks coming in here with the same old tired excuses we've heard for 10 years. Oh if we didn't have injuries, oh we are young, oh we had guys that couldn't make weight and thus left us with a void, word vomit, word vomit, word vomit.

Without Fix we'd be a slightly better version of OU. Let that sink in.

Couldn’t agree more, John needs to have a long look in the mirror. He can’t say he’s honestly doing what it takes for this program to win 35 and be relevant. We are a shell of our format program. John needs to do the right thing for the program and retire. Our admin needs to hold him accountable even though he is the GOAT. It’s time.

 

[OState Cowboys]

Why not let him transition to CWC coach and bring in a Burroughs?

 

[newguy123]

Why not let him transition to CWC coach and bring in a Burroughs?

You have to be open to bringing in new blood. And then the new blood has to want to take over the program. I have no idea how entrenched John/Chris/Zack are; they did just bring in two new assistant coaches this year (Chandler and Gary Wayne).

And you have to be okay with the growing pains that come with new coaches. Some current athletes will transfer out, some recruits will de-commit.

 

[newguy123]

Couldn’t agree more, John needs to have a long look in the mirror. He can’t say he’s honestly doing what it takes for this program to win 35 and be relevant. We are a shell of our format program. John needs to do the right thing for the program and retire. Our admin needs to hold him accountable even though he is the GOAT. It’s time.

It is a little frustrating to hear John talk about other Big 12 members and wrestling as a whole and how our guys need to do things like "try harder".

A bunch of teams that are not traditionally powerhouses are doing really well this year. If they can do it, so can we. Not sure when or how but if a team like Cornell can finish in the top 5 then there's a path for other non-Big 10 schools to get on the podium.

It's also more and more clear that it's Penn State at the top and then everybody else.

 

[Mrgrapple]

Gee didn't we just win Big XII dual co Championss and finish runner-up in the cconcconf

 

[chasepollard]

It is a little frustrating to hear John talk about other Big 12 members and wrestling as a whole and how our guys need to do things like "try harder".

A bunch of teams that are not traditionally powerhouses are doing really well this year. If they can do it, so can we. Not sure when or how but if a team like Cornell can finish in the top 5 then there's a path for other non-Big 10 schools to get on the podium.

It's also more and more clear that it's Penn State at the top and then everybody else.

That’s really the fact...and an unattainable barometer currently.

I believe that’s John’s fault. We are so far behind because things weren’t done at the right time?

I will also defend our staff. Maybe it’s loyalty? Maybe it’s hope that John can look at it and see, we’ve had several historical lows under his watch? You don’t cut an icon loose. You work with them and create a great outcome.

 

[JAY45]

It is a little frustrating to hear John talk about other Big 12 members and wrestling as a whole and how our guys need to do things like "try harder".

A bunch of teams that are not traditionally powerhouses are doing really well this year. If they can do it, so can we. Not sure when or how but if a team like Cornell can finish in the top 5 then there's a path for other non-Big 10 schools to get on the podium.

It's also more and more clear that it's Penn State at the top and then everybody else.

Don’t disagree with what you are saying other than the fact that Cornell has built up a a substantial Program over the past several years.

 

[chasepollard]

Gee didn't we just win Big XII dual co Championss and finish runner-up in the cconcconf

A conference that had how many teams in the top 10?

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

Gee didn't we just win Big XII dual co Championss and finish runner-up in the cconcconf

I sure hope this is meant facetiously.

 

[JAY45]

Waiting for one fan to defend John in the staff at this point

There is not a single good Cowboy who is happy about any aspect of this. It’s abundantly clear that significant changes need to be made. That said, it can be done with class and dignity.

 

[newguy123]

Don’t disagree with what you are saying other than the fact that Cornell has built up a a substantial Program over the past several years.

Totally. I guess my point is that if they can do it then so can OSU. I’m always going to have some optimism, lol, can’t help it.

 

[JAY45]

Totally. I guess my point is that if they can do it then so can OSU. I’m always going to have some optimism, lol, can’t help it.

There is no doubt OSU can do it. It just takes a commitment to a new direction.

 

[Mrgrapple]

Don't know what happened to my post. I wrote that we were co champions of the conference dual season and tournament runner-up. We improved a lot during this season to become a fairly decent dual team and small tournament team. We do not have many highly ranked individuals to place high at nationals.i am a former letterman and support our wrestlers and coaches,

 

[poke00]

There is not a single good Cowboy who is happy about any aspect of this. It’s abundantly clear that significant changes need to be made. That said, it can be done with class and dignity.

That is why there is no loyalty in sports. Either you’re getting it done or you’re not. Gundy has mentioned it. One second they want to name a street after you and the next they want to fire you. It is all about the coach. Either they see it going south and walk away or they don’t and fight it out with the administration.

 

[gif tannen]

That is why there is no loyalty in sports. Either you’re getting it done or you’re not. Gundy has mentioned it. One second they want to name a street after you and the next they want to fire you. It is all about the coach. Either they see it going south and walk away or they don’t and fight it out with the administration

This seems just a touch dramatic. Pretty sure everyone on here has outlined how they are fiercely supportive and appreciative of John, while simultaneously wanting to see us back in contention for a National Championship. Literally most of the folks on here want exactly what you are describing doesn't exist.

 

[Okie_Pat]

All we can hope is that this is a wake up call for John and if he wants to go out on a high note and leave the program in a good position whenever that time is than he must do something soon. What that something is is above my pay grade but I think we all have some ideas. The RTC is something that will take years to get caught up on but putting the right wrestling minds in the room can happen quickly.

Edit: I truly believe a part of this teams struggles are mental and preparation. Connecting with the guys. I don’t think that’s one of John’s strong attributes.

 

[biocowboy]

Good luck raising money for the new practice facility

 

[Wrassler17]

Don’t disagree with what you are saying other than the fact that Cornell has built up a a substantial Program over the past several years.

The reason Cornell is in a better position than us is Rob Koll. He talked about it pretty extensively on a podcast.

Said when he first got into coaching he would spend hours & hours teaching technique every day. Then he realized having more assistants would make things more productive, so he focused on endowing the assistant coaching positions. Then he saw PSU's $9M in RTC assets was the key to their success, so he focused on fundraising for the Cornell RTC. Got it up to $1.6M.

At Stanford, he's not only raising $ for their RTC, he's also working the alumni to set up positions for after wrestling. Think about that. His pitch will be to come train at the Stanford RTC for a few years and then step into a job when you are done competing.

Now compare that to what John has done the last 10 years. The answer to our problems is not to have longer practices.

 

[biocowboy]

Won’t be a problem…

At all.

Good to hear. I hope if we have that kind of support maybe we can fund a RTC and NIL program along with money for a new coach.

 

[poke00]

Won’t be a problem…

At all.

Why hadn’t it been done yet? Have they not tried? It always appear they just needed the funds and then they would start.

 

[Alpha Poke]

Why hadn’t it been done yet? Have they not tried? It always appear they just needed the funds and then they would start.

You think they’re going to roll out that campaign and just..

Let it fail?

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

Good luck raising money for the new practice facility

Exhibit A

 

[Harleycowboy]

Exhibit A

Stunning how horrible Fix wrestled and stunning the lack of help our coaches give our wrestlers. Again Coach Smith should be ashamed of what a poor job he has done as the head coach. Thank God I am not in Tulsa.

 

[biocowboy]

Hey at least we have OSU softball!

 

[CowboyTanker]

Hey at least we have OSU softball!

Softball has a coach with a vision, wrestling does not

 

[poke00]

You think they’re going to roll out that campaign and just..

Let it fail?

I know that but it has been mentioned for years that is the one program that needed upgrades besides baseball. I was just curious why it hadn’t been done yet if money was available. So I take it that money isn’t available yet but will be.

 

[bwel9339]

John Smith should retire tomorrow. He is letting our kids down. Make him an assistant AD and let him help fundraise. This tournament, like last year has been a catastrophe. Hire Dake, hell hire the Cornell coach. Whatever it takes!

 

[CowboyTanker]

John Smith should retire tomorrow. He is letting our kids down. Make him an assistant AD and let him help fundraise. This tournament, like last year has been a catastrophe. Hire Dake, hell hire the Cornell coach. Whatever it takes!

You don't understand....John Smith hates asking for money....he hates fundraising. He's the last guy i would have fundraising...
But you are right, he should retire before he gets back to Stillwater.

 

[turfpoke]

Nearly the worst results anyone could have imagined. The fire isn’t there. 3 years ago we were looking at having a chance in Tulsa. We are currently in 20th place.