Knowles vs Patricia

[PSUForever]

So did we somehow screw this up with Patricia being a much better DC than Knowles? It looks like it now. Maybe it is the talent difference that is making OSU look like the '85 Bears and us look like ....well a team that just gave up 42 points to 0-4 UCLA.

I have not done the position by position talent breakdown of their defense to ours and obviously with the loss of Rojas we drop down. My sense is yes, they have more talent on their D but I also think that Patricia is turning out to be a home run hire for them. As for Knowles, I thought it was a good hire and better than the Patricia hire but it sure looks like they got the better end of the deal.

 

[BCS PSU]

So did we somehow screw this up with Patricia being a much better DC than Knowles? It looks like it now. Maybe it is the talent difference that is making OSU look like the '85 Bears and us look like ....well a team that just gave up 42 points to 0-4 UCLA.

I have not done the position by position talent breakdown of their defense to ours and obviously with the loss of Rojas we drop down. My sense is yes, they have more talent on their D but I also think that Patricia is turning out to be a home run hire for them. As for Knowles, I thought it was a good hire and better than the Patricia hire but it sure looks like they got the better end of the deal.

Let's remember that this PSU defense held Oregon to 17 regulation points despite being on the field for 2/3 of the game. Obviously, that unit had a massive letdown against UCLA and didn't adjust to not having Rojas. If PSU played that same UCLA team this week, I doubt that UCLA would score 20 points.

With that said, how much better would Knowles look campared to Patricia if he had a Caleb Downs or Sunny Styles or a few bigger defensive linemen? OSU probably has the best defense in the country this season and it probably isn't close, and that would be the case whether Knowles or Patricia was their d-coordinator.

My main complaint about this PSU defense, and it goes back to both recruiting, development and portal decisions, is that it is so light; it's simply not designed for the rigors of a Big 10 season, and that must change beginning this off-season. IMO, the thing that set UGA apart in 2021 and 2022 was their big d-linemen.

 

[MtNittany]

I expected a much closer game than the line indicated due to Rojas being gone alone, but I expected better coaching from all 3 coaches involved as well. My expectations wrt the coaches were too high obviously.

BTW, I put the ORE loss on the Defense for one reason - they (our best unit, by far back then) were given a chance to win the game in OT and gave up 2 quick TD's instead.

It's like no one is prepared for anything. Great teams are prepared for everything.

 

[Kinglando is never wrong]

UCLA’s QB can do one thing well, run the ball. Stop that and stop UCLA. It’s pretty simple. Doesn’t take a high end DC to figure that out. Obviously, 4 teams DC’s found a way to do it, but not JK.

 

[WestSideLion]

Talent trumps coaching ability. And in college, there is still a big talent disparity much of the time.

That’s especially true at a program like OSU. Knowles looked great with great D talent. He looks more average with lesser talent at PSU.

Likewise, Patricia looks great with great talent at OSU. I think you could put a lot of coaches in charge of that unit and they’d look awesome.

 

[Bwifan]

As Jimmy Johnson said... It's more about the Jimmy and Joe's rather than the X's and O's... Patricia has really good Jimmy and Joe's at OSU, X's and O's don't matter as much.

 

[PSUJC40]

So did we somehow screw this up with Patricia being a much better DC than Knowles? It looks like it now. Maybe it is the talent difference that is making OSU look like the '85 Bears and us look like ....well a team that just gave up 42 points to 0-4 UCLA.

I have not done the position by position talent breakdown of their defense to ours and obviously with the loss of Rojas we drop down. My sense is yes, they have more talent on their D but I also think that Patricia is turning out to be a home run hire for them. As for Knowles, I thought it was a good hire and better than the Patricia hire but it sure looks like they got the better end of the deal.

As usual

 

[Pointingdogsrule]

UCLA’s QB can do one thing well, run the ball. Stop that and stop UCLA. It’s pretty simple. Doesn’t take a high end DC to figure that out. Obviously, 4 teams DC’s found a way to do it, but not JK.

I respectfully disagree with the “one thing”. I saw him make some really clutch throws into tight coverage. Jmho

 

[razpsu]

I will post this in another thread I may start. But. Maybe ucla is psu 1983? Maybe. Let’s hope

 

[MtNittany]

The ucla game is (I hope), an outlier. I still go back to OT against ORE at home, at night. You think the 86 defense lets them score a TD, let alone 2 w/ the game on the line? Or any great college defense over the years.

It's like there's no recognition of what is at stake in real time. Like the last 2 minutes of the first half at ucla. No preparation and no proper reaction.

 

[JVP_Yahweh]

Patricia has a bad rep in the NFL. He had no other options available. PSU would never hire a Patricia type

 

[PSUForever]

The ucla game is (I hope), an outlier. I still go back to OT against ORE at home, at night. You think the 86 defense lets them score a TD, let alone 2 w/ the game on the line? Or any great college defense over the years.

It's like there's no recognition of what is at stake in real time. Like the last 2 minutes of the first half at ucla. No preparation and no proper reaction.

I am more in your camp about the defense. In the Oregon game I thought they played good in terms of not giving up points but ultimately they failed in OT big time. We cannot forget that if the Oregon FG kicker makes that kick then they salted the game away with 12 minutes to go in the 4th quarter up 20-3. We also had a lot of trouble defending the short pass and never got any pressure on Moore. Hence they drove up and down the field on us. For the most part our DLine was dominated. My point being that after that game I was certainly not saying "Wow, Knowles has made this defense even better and we are elite on D".

Then we get to UCLA and we collapse without Rojas although even with Rojas we were going to look lousy on D but I think we win the game, barely.

As far as OSU is concerned, did everyone predict this? Meaning they would have this good of a defense?

Here is my point, OSU seems to be overachieving on defense. Yes, they have elite talent but I think Patricia is pushing all the right buttons with all the right people and maximizing that talent. It is not just anybody could do that kind of thing.

Meanwhile you have to conclude that at least so far Knowles is underachieving. Are we really satisfied with the job he has done? I'm not. Our stars on defense have not improved and incredibly he believes we only have 2 LBs now that are ready to see the field. Why is that? At the beginning of the season did we think we had the lesser DC? Nope. But now we do. Again this is another example of Franklin not making the right hire. I am not saying he should have hired Patricia but wow, whatever can go wrong does with Franklin. Finally, I hope Knowles turns it around and yeah we lost Rojas but we are not what I thought we would be on D.

 

[PSUSignore]

I am more in your camp about the defense. In the Oregon game I thought they played good in terms of not giving up points but ultimately they failed in OT big time. We cannot forget that if the Oregon FG kicker makes that kick then they salted the game away with 12 minutes to go in the 4th quarter up 20-3. We also had a lot of trouble defending the short pass and never got any pressure on Moore. Hence they drove up and down the field on us. For the most part our DLine was dominated. My point being that after that game I was certainly not saying "Wow, Knowles has made this defense even better and we are elite on D".

Then we get to UCLA and we collapse without Rojas although even with Rojas we were going to look lousy on D but I think we win the game, barely.

As far as OSU is concerned, did everyone predict this? Meaning they would have this good of a defense?

Here is my point, OSU seems to be overachieving on defense. Yes, they have elite talent but I think Patricia is pushing all the right buttons with all the right people and maximizing that talent. It is not just anybody could do that kind of thing.

Meanwhile you have to conclude that at least so far Knowles is underachieving. Are we really satisfied with the job he has done? I'm not. Our stars on defense have not improved and incredibly he believes we only have 2 LBs now that are ready to see the field. Why is that? At the beginning of the season did we think we had the lesser DC? Nope. But now we do. Again this is another example of Franklin not making the right hire. I am not saying he should have hired Patricia but wow, whatever can go wrong does with Franklin. Finally, I hope Knowles turns it around and yeah we lost Rojas but we are not what I thought we would be on D.

That's the current blueprint to beating PSU's defense. If an opposing offense is consistent and accurate enough to get 3 yards per play and put together 10 play drives, we're in trouble. Oregon gameplanned for this, was perfectly willing to end up in 4th and short and then went 5/7 on 4th down. UCLA also had a few long TD drives, just taking the underneath stuff and being content with it. If the d-line doesn't start getting more pressure to put teams behind the chains this is going to continue.

 

[ChandlerPearce58]

I expected a much closer game than the line indicated due to Rojas being gone alone, but I expected better coaching from all 3 coaches involved as well. My expectations wrt the coaches were too high obviously.

BTW, I put the ORE loss on the Defense for one reason - they (our best unit, by far back then) were given a chance to win the game in OT and gave up 2 quick TD's instead.

It's like no one is prepared for anything. Great teams are prepared for everything.

Expectations is the key word...I continue to expect CJF to develop as a game day coach....however I know who and what we are....not elite, not championship caliber, not even great....just a good team that can defeat lesser talent.

 

[Anon1759755408]

Patricia has a bad rep in the NFL. He had no other options available. PSU would never hire a Patricia type

He had a great rep as an NFL D Coordinator. So great it got him an NFL HC job. He had a terrible rep as an NFL HC. Maybe the universe is telling the man to stick with D coordinating.

 

[PSU4U]

So did we somehow screw this up with Patricia being a much better DC than Knowles? It looks like it now. Maybe it is the talent difference that is making OSU look like the '85 Bears and us look like ....well a team that just gave up 42 points to 0-4 UCLA.

I have not done the position by position talent breakdown of their defense to ours and obviously with the loss of Rojas we drop down. My sense is yes, they have more talent on their D but I also think that Patricia is turning out to be a home run hire for them. As for Knowles, I thought it was a good hire and better than the Patricia hire but it sure looks like they got the better end of the deal.

Most if not all coordinators have one glaring flaw and it's a bullheaded mindset of molding players into their particular scheme come hell or high water.

 

[royboy]

Losing Rojas was clearly a bad break -- he was one of PSU's best players and had the speed to go from sideline to sideline in the 2-LB scheme that Knowles and Franklin ran.

But there was a total shortage of good replacements for Rojas -- Dom plays hard but doesn't have the speed of Rojas. Amare Campbell has played well, but there is a big dropoff after Rojas and Campbell.

And the freshman LBs were not ready to step in. So the defensive failure rests on 2 factors.

• Without Rojas, Penn State could not run an effective 2-LB scheme; 3-LBs would have been a much better alignment, esp. to stop the scramblin of the UCLA QB
• Despite being thin at the LB position, the PSU staff did not have freshman LBs prepared to play, or even try young players like Tatsch, Cam Smith or Speca in significant roles.

 

[Wilbury]

So did we somehow screw this up with Patricia being a much better DC than Knowles? It looks like it now. Maybe it is the talent difference that is making OSU look like the '85 Bears and us look like ....well a team that just gave up 42 points to 0-4 UCLA.

I have not done the position by position talent breakdown of their defense to ours and obviously with the loss of Rojas we drop down. My sense is yes, they have more talent on their D but I also think that Patricia is turning out to be a home run hire for them. As for Knowles, I thought it was a good hire and better than the Patricia hire but it sure looks like they got the better end of the deal.

This is an impossible comparison to make but I'm sure that's not going to stop anyone from trying to do it.