The only chance we ever have of hiring a winning coach is to catch lightning in a bottle. What I mean by that is , hire a Meyers, Saban, etc, before they become Meyers, Saban etc. Meaning hire a hot shot assistant, pay him premier head coach money, then when he becomes a premier coach, sell him on "we paid you as a top notch coach before you where one, we believed in you, so pay us back with loyalty" type close. If he bolts, hope like hell he has a top notch assistant that doesn't want to tag along with him and play 2nd fiddle.
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Isn't that what tried to do? I like stoops still and a hot shot Cordinator from a power team with a coaching name and family.
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We whiffed. Where was Spurrier, Saban, Meyers before they got their first big gig ??? We have to find them while at a small school, hope that may get over looked and we get them before a bigger school lands them.
yep, UK tried that
It's a crap shoot and even still, requires fan patience whoever it is, not just talking about Stoops. In the earlier Saban years at MSU, the three years prior to his arrival, MSU was 5-6, 6-6, 5-6. When Saban took over, 1st year 6-5-1, 2nd 6-6, 7-5, 6-6, then the last was 9-2 when LSU got him. After the 6-6 season, our fans clamoring for a "big time coach", would have wanted him fired.
We needed the upgrades.Stoops still not proven head coach but let's finish the year out.
Our AD and many fans are paranoid when it comes to our football coach. As I recall a few years ago Stoops won a game or two and immediately all of the radio talks shows were full of "Oh my God somebody is going to steal our coach so we MUST increase his salary now or else." So what does our AD do? He gives Stoops an extension and a contract that was absurd and obscene based on the results on the field.
A serious program does not give a new coach a contract extension until wins show he deserve it. So talk of replacing Stoops at this point is just talk. I have reservations that Stoops can be a successful head coach and have reservations that our AD can hire a winning coach. If Stoops does go I would hope someone knowledgeable about football would actually do the hiring. Much like what happened when we fortunate to hire Coach Cal.
A serious program does not give a new coach a contract extension until wins show he deserve it. So talk of replacing Stoops at this point is just talk. I have reservations that Stoops can be a successful head coach and have reservations that our AD can hire a winning coach. If Stoops does go I would hope someone knowledgeable about football would actually do the hiring. Much like what happened when we fortunate to hire Coach Cal.
What I'm hoping for is a big time program lets go of a coach for not keeping up the Sabans, a la Les Miles gets canned at LSU as an example. We pick them up because we got SEC F U money, upgraded facilities, upgraded stadium, and generally low expectations. If we go bowling each year, no matter the quality of the bowl, most fans are happy. Hell, beating a Florida, LSU, Bama, Tennessee is our bowl game anyways.
I'm not sure Stoops was ever a "hot shot coordinator." I follow the coaching carousel pretty closely, and don't ever remember his named being mentioned for another head job before he made his big sales pitch to Barnhart.
Not that he didn't do a really good job at FSU, but but he wasn't a Pat Narduzzi at Michigan State or Charlie Strong at Florida in terms of head-coach buzz as a defensive coordinator ... for whatever reason.
Not that he didn't do a really good job at FSU, but but he wasn't a Pat Narduzzi at Michigan State or Charlie Strong at Florida in terms of head-coach buzz as a defensive coordinator ... for whatever reason.
While he doesn't technically do it alone, if there was a Hall of Fame for nano-managers, Saban would be in its Ring of Honor.
Because there isn't enough in state talent (so recruiting is tougher), and it's a beast of a conference, so it's always going to be an uphill climb.
And just lol at the suggestion of Urban Meyer in the OP. That's just delusional if one thinks that's even a remote possibility.
Agree with most all of this.
Only option for a really competent coach is to take baggage like others said. I think of Butch Davis in that mold. Someone that really wants to coach and because of baggage can't get another job to offer.
Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!!!!!
Until we address the source of the flow of poor HC's coming to UK, we are wasting our time. Root cause is the AD. I think AD sells the "can't get a good coach at UK" because he is lazy.
I agree getting a HOF FB coach at UK would be very difficult; however, the D1 FCS has ample numbers of HC's performing well at good 1AA FB programs (NDSU, Richmond, JMU, Coastal Carolina, No Iowa, Eastern Washington, Sam Houston, just to name a few. THAT is where we find good young coaches with good HC experience who won't be in OJT mode upon arrival. Also, they only get 63 scholarships......they MUST be good at talent evaluation and development of they fail at the FCS level.
AD has not yet demonstrated a willingness to go look at D1 FCS when doing his coaching searches. Many good FBS coaches got valuable experience at the FCS level.....including the guy at So Miss who just kicked our butts (Alcorn St....2X conference champs).
Regardless, I am not confident that another FB HC hire by the current AD will improve matters at BBN.
UK90 answered this better than I could - just substitute "up-and-coming" for "Big Name" in the response below. The logic is identical.
And of course, even if you do manage to get someone good from the lower ranks of football to come here, that's hardly guaranteed to bring success. Anybod remember a guy named Hal Mumme? This is from the wikipedia article on Hal:
"Mumme took over as head coach a Valdosta State University in 1992. Mumme's record at Valdosta State was 40–17–1. In both 1994 and 1996 he led the team to the NCAA Division II playoff quarterfinals; Valdosta State had never made the playoffs previously. The team was consistently ranked in the Division II top 20 and was ranked #1 in the nation in Division II for part of the 1996 season when they won their first Gulf South Conference championship. In 1994 Valdosta State defeated the University of Central Florida 31–14, an upset over the team picked by Sports Illustrated in the preseason to win the NCAA Division 1-AA nationol football championship. Quarterback Chris Hatcher won the Harlon Hill Award as player of the year in NCAA Division II football."
You mean the guy who called and said "Why waste money on football facilities when we could spend that money on basketball"? I quit listening to him there.
Why is it laughable? It's happened literally everywhere else that has experienced football success. UL is a top 10 basketball school (not top 5, but arguably top 10), and I think football is close to passing basketball at UL. The exposure is bigger, the atmosphere is bigger, the hype is bigger, the money is bigger. Everything is bigger.
PLus, we play in a football conference. At some point, UK fans will realize that it's a lot more fun beating UT and Georgia in football than in basketball. We just need to do it more often so that people aren't scared to care and emotionally invest themselves in football.
Basketball will never be an afterthought at UK, and I don't think the OP was saying that it will. but, i think it's reasonable to conclude that UK could be a great football school and that UK fans would care just as much (if not more) about football than they do about basketball.
First off, there is no point in discussing this from a facilities vs. personnel perspective. The money for paying for facilities comes from the Capital Budget, while the monies for paying salaries comes from the Operation Budget. You can't move those monies back and forth, especially at a state agency. So it will never be a matter of choosing one over the other. They are, and will always be, two completely separate issues.
On the other hand, Kentucky's best chance for hiring a successful coach has already passed us by twice. The scenario of hiring a successful coach who was let go because of baggage. We did this with Brooks, who was considered too old. More recently, we could have had Mike Leach and passed. Then it was Petrino and we passed again. Art Briles is out there right now. He most likely represents the clearest path to future success.
The second option is to strike gold with that unknown coach on the rise. Our track record with this approach so far has been abysmal. At some point I wonder if we will take that chance on a Coach like Briles. Personally I doubt it happens but at this point it is always nice to dream.
On the other hand, Kentucky's best chance for hiring a successful coach has already passed us by twice. The scenario of hiring a successful coach who was let go because of baggage. We did this with Brooks, who was considered too old. More recently, we could have had Mike Leach and passed. Then it was Petrino and we passed again. Art Briles is out there right now. He most likely represents the clearest path to future success.
The second option is to strike gold with that unknown coach on the rise. Our track record with this approach so far has been abysmal. At some point I wonder if we will take that chance on a Coach like Briles. Personally I doubt it happens but at this point it is always nice to dream.
The "Peter Principle" applies to small college coaches becoming head coaches at big schools just as much as it does to coordinators becoming head coaches at big schools. Or even small schools- Craig Bohl, a top FSC coach, hasn't had much luck at Wyoming yet. Lance Leopold, arguably one of the best D3 coaches in history, not much at Buffalo yet.
Many UK fans, having been disappointed by Joker and so far, by Stoops, are thinking that the next coach absolutely has to have head coaching experience. Unless we get someone who has succeeded at a high level, there's really no greater likelihood of a small school guy succeeding than a coordinator succeeding. In fact, at our biggest rival, of the last three small school coaches they hired, two have been absolute flops, while the last two coordinators with no head coaching experience (except for one interim game for Strong) have been huge hits. Unless we can get Saban or Harbaugh, it's a crapshoot, period.
Too bush to post on your other name , don't be afraid . Not to mention everybody has panned your moronic post
So Cal had made it clear he doesn't want his total compensation to ever be less than any fb coach we hire?
You apparently haven't read all the reasons listed as to why that's not likely to happen here , I won't list them again as you are not interested in hearing anything other than its totally possible . It's possible to win here but the percentages are real low , probably will never happen and there is zero chance of UK being anything other than a bb first school .
UKAA is a funding source, not the budget. If I remember correctly, Commonwealth renovations are being paid for through the K-Fund. Completely separate monies with its on set of rules for how it can be spent.
Tell me what my other posting name is--and I'll be happy to oblige. I've read your crap. You claim to like all uk sports equally but your agenda proves otherwise.
Tell you what--stop posting.
Hang in there because UK bb is about to put a big sweet taste back in your mouth , your gums will be coated with the nectar of victory . You be likin' it
I'll tell you how basketball season will end.......... K will probably announce retirement......... get every damn call under the sun and once again duke takes our damn title.
Sorry but it feels like we've been cursed in all sports ever since that afternoon we played Wisconsin in the final four.
Sorry but it feels like we've been cursed in all sports ever since that afternoon we played Wisconsin in the final four.
I read them, i just don't agree. your opinion is just that and it doesn't make my opinion wrong. I think you're wrong and there's plenty of people here that agree with both of us.
I just hope that we one day get the chance to see one of us be proven right or wrong when the football program enjoys some success.
This proves my point I think. No one wanted/wants this job. MB did the best he could at least finding someone who wanted this job and had a plan for succeeding. Mark Stoops wanted it, had a plan (recruiting Ohio) and was hired. He has done everything he was hired to do except be a good head coach. The names you mention did not want this job. No good coach does.
Louisville's "building" process has taken 35 years and has had the benefit of not playing 8 SEC teams every year. It is much harder to build in this conference. The year that Louisville should have played in the title game but got beat on Thursday night, their schedule gave them the opportunity to stay healthy.
The talent level is why he wouldn't answer any of Barnhart's calls if Barnhart was smart enough to make them.
"A few defensive juco's"? Now I get it. You're being sarcastic, Should have known.
The UKAA was dissolved 4.5 years ago by the BoT... There is no UKAA, only a University Athletics Committee made up of 5 Board of Trustees members, up to 3 non-voting community members, and the faculty athletics representative as an ex officio non-voting member.
UK’s Athletic Association Board Dissolved
LEXINGTON, Ky. (Feb. 15, 2012) – The duties performed by the University of Kentucky Athletic Association (UKAA) Board of Directors will now be handled by a new committee of the UK Board of Trustees, as a result of action taken today at the UKAA board's final meeting.
The UKAA directors voted to disband the organization following the recommendation of a special committee of the Board of Trustees last year. The special committee, which was appointed by Board of Trustees Chair Britt Brockman in March 2011, conducted a review of benchmark institutions and current best practices. The committee met last October and recommended that the Board of Trustees create a new Athletics Committee within the structure of the board and include community adviser members. The special committee further recommended that in order to remain compliant with NCAA rules on institutional control over intercollegiate athletics, the committee membership and its chair should be appointed by UK's president in consultation with the board chair.
At its meeting in December, the full Board of Trustees approved the proposed revision of the university's governing regulations to establish a University Athletics Committee within the board's committee structure.
The University Athletics Committee’s responsibilities will include: providing counsel to the UK president concerning matters or activities of the Athletics Department; reviewing the Athletics Department’s annual budget and audit reports, major expenditures and acquisitions, and construction of facilities if the cost is expected to exceed $400,000; and providing needed information to the BOT. The committee will be composed of five Board of Trustees members, up to three non-voting community members, and the faculty athletics representative as an ex officio non-voting member.
***************************************************************************************
CWS renovations were financed with state bonds and those bonds are being paid out of UK Athletics operating revenues. The K-Fund is just a part of that revenue stream. All athletics revenue (SEC distribution, ticket sales, K-Fund, etc) goes into one big pocket and then that money is used to cover the obligations and expenses of UK Athletics.
1. If you think that UK having a winning football program would erase a near 100 year tradition of our basketball excellence, then you are dumber than the average lair poster, and that's really saying something.
2. I vehemently disagree that staff upgrades are more important than what amount to capital improvements, for multiple reasons that probably far exceed your ability to think or reason. I'm also not convinced donors couldn't fund both, should they choose to do so. I think it's quite possible that we've never been given any realistic reason to believe than any amount of money could get us an upgrade on a curry, morris, brooks, joker, stoops type. Now I'm not saying that all of those guys are equals or even necessarily poor coaches, just that they are obviously not top tier, in their prime football coaches.
So you think we have the ability to pay 3x what the current highest paid CFB coach in the country makes... [laughing]
No.
Oregon got really good because Phil Knight (maybe you've heard of him) poured resources into the program.
Florida got really good because their state population more than tripled between 1960 and 1990 (I guess you didn't notice that all of the Florida schools got dominant about the same time).
Louisiana produces the most NFL players per capita of any state.
Louisville is only good in relation to us. I'm still not convinced that they're even the 4th best team in a conference that drops off a cliff after the first 2 schools. If you think they would consistently win 8+ games in the SEC, then... Well... You started this thread, so I guess that lsck of logic would be consistent.
These school's success is more influenced by things other than their coaches.