Coach K will set him right, he's dealt with Melo, Kobe, Lebron, etc. in the pros. I don't mind Capel letting Tatum play through his mistakes but he definitely needs to be getting an earful everytime he makes a selfish decision instead of thinking about what's best for the team.
Leave Tatum alone...
- Thread starter jamsession3
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It's either him or Luke, did you see those NBA crossover moves he made before he missed the layups at the end? Those are high percentage looks that he manufactured by himself that will usually fall if he's able to get to the rim.
We've had so many Duke teams in the past that have to rely on pin point ball movement because we didn't have a player who can break down the opposing team with his dribble. Tatum's body control is unique at his age.
Tatum is certainly our most talented player- Luke probably our most polished (offensively). Frank is certainly up there in talent as well.
Look, Tatum made some mistakes, no question, but if he wasn't great before that we don't get out to some of double digit leads we did. He was part of that group that helped us back against Miami in the 2nd half. He had some unreal moves and I'm sure people were yelling and saying that's the Tatum we recruited!
Now not two or three missed layups and a dribble off his foot and he's enemy number one.
Thankfully we have a coaching staff that has been here before, understands the bigger picture and can help him rather than throw him off a bridge because of it. And dare I say 90% of this whether people want to admit it to themselves or others or not, it has mainly to do about him not passing to an open guy at the end and dribbling off his foot with not even a shot attempt. Let's be honest.
Tatum has a lot to work on but holy **** so does the entire team, and we can only reach our full potential if he's part of the equation.
Look, Tatum made some mistakes, no question, but if he wasn't great before that we don't get out to some of double digit leads we did. He was part of that group that helped us back against Miami in the 2nd half. He had some unreal moves and I'm sure people were yelling and saying that's the Tatum we recruited!
Now not two or three missed layups and a dribble off his foot and he's enemy number one.
Thankfully we have a coaching staff that has been here before, understands the bigger picture and can help him rather than throw him off a bridge because of it. And dare I say 90% of this whether people want to admit it to themselves or others or not, it has mainly to do about him not passing to an open guy at the end and dribbling off his foot with not even a shot attempt. Let's be honest.
Tatum has a lot to work on but holy **** so does the entire team, and we can only reach our full potential if he's part of the equation.
Are you serious? Matt is great college defender, but DSJr is a NBA player. Knocking him for something like that is quite ridiculous.
Matt is a decent defender...sure as hell isn't a GREAT defender by a long stretch
how about the ******** defense and jogging back back on defense.
Seems like you are in love with Tatum but bottom line is he is a "me" player and not a team player....in my opinion
Tatum absolutely is guilty of walking back on defense after the missed lay ins- but you're also completely ignoring every other player that has their own problems. It wasn't just Tatum- it was everyone, name anyone and I could give you a few reasons. People are making him a scapegoat and it's obvious why.
Bottom line is we need him if we want to go somewhere this year. Allow the kid as talented as he is, he's a freshman and 18, trust more in the coaches to get us right.
He is the scapegoat cause most people feel he is more worried about himself rather than the team
Yeah I'm sure it had nothing to do with the last image of the game where he dribbled off his foot. Before that despite missing 2-3 layups he was 7-14 and had 9 boards. No one is disputing he made mistakes, he needs to and can get better. But he wasn't the reason we lost that game, which the People hating on him fail to admit.
I never said he was THE reason we lost...but he was a good part of it...and if you can't admit that then I don't know what to say
33, my God dude shut the hell up. We lost, we get it. If Tatum doesn't botch that play dunks it and gets fouled there, we're all talking about how amazing he is today. Its basketball, Duke doesn't win every game in real life.
After we win the NCAA championship this year all of this will be forgotten. OFC
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I wish a promise would do it but I believe we have a good a chance as any. Do you think Coach K thinks we will win it. If we don't you guys have my permission to rag me all off season. OFC
Tatum played 31 minutes
Grayson played 26 minutes
Tatum hit 7 of 14 shots
Grayson hit 4 of 13 shots
Tatum hit 1-4 from 3
Grayson hit 1-9 from 3
Tatum led all Duke players in rebounds with 9
Grayson had 1 rebound
Tatum 1-2 from the line
Grayson 4-5 from the line
Tatum had 3 assists
Allen had 2 assists
Tatum had 1 steal 2 blocks and 2 turnovers
Grayson had 0 steals 0 blocks and 2 turnovers
Tatum 16 points
Grayson 13 points
One is a freshman
The other is a junior
No I don't think I want to bench Tatum. In fact every time he drove to the basket and missed I hope he keeps driving because he will start making those more than not.
Grayson played 26 minutes
Tatum hit 7 of 14 shots
Grayson hit 4 of 13 shots
Tatum hit 1-4 from 3
Grayson hit 1-9 from 3
Tatum led all Duke players in rebounds with 9
Grayson had 1 rebound
Tatum 1-2 from the line
Grayson 4-5 from the line
Tatum had 3 assists
Allen had 2 assists
Tatum had 1 steal 2 blocks and 2 turnovers
Grayson had 0 steals 0 blocks and 2 turnovers
Tatum 16 points
Grayson 13 points
One is a freshman
The other is a junior
No I don't think I want to bench Tatum. In fact every time he drove to the basket and missed I hope he keeps driving because he will start making those more than not.
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This doesn't work for me. Allen has had many games where he has led the team in scoring and assists. He has had games where he has rebounded great from a guard position. Despite him making bone headed plays from time to time, he still has more of a team concept than Tatum. Though we can criticize his performance in last night's game, we can't use that as an example of Tatum's overall performance so far this year.
Tatum is improving each game. You will see that if you take the blinders off. Heck, all the freshmen that are playing are getting better. Come March, these Tatum haters will be singing a different tune. It takes awhile for most 18 year old freshmen to blend in with the upper class men. People are just looking for a player to point their finger at for the losses and Tatum just happens to be the one.
I've also defended Matt Jones when everyone was blaming him because his shots weren't falling. It's a team sport. They're human and will make mistakes. I don't like where Grayson's at right now, but I expect him to get things worked out as well.
I think what the Tatum apologists don't realize is this is not about one game. Even if he dribbles down and buries a 3 to win at the buzzer, it still does not mask the fact that he is not a team player. Numerous people have come down on him well before he dribbled the ball off of his foot.
Should he still play a lot? Yes. Should he be taking more shots than Laettner ever did on a team this talented? Hell no!
Should he still play a lot? Yes. Should he be taking more shots than Laettner ever did on a team this talented? Hell no!
Jayson is a heck of a player and we should feel fortunate to be able to land kids this talented on an annual basis.
Grayson Allen is a junior, and a pre season national player of the year candidate. If you're getting anything close to what was expected of him, we aren't having this conversation. Tatum is a FRESHMAN who missed a significant amount of time. The kid absolutely has things to work on in terms of figuring out better shot selection. That will come but if Allen doesn't perform then your only consistent option at this point is Luke Kennard as a scorer but unfortunately Kennard is a complete liability on defense. Teams pick Kennard out and go at him. Tatum can do it all. He can get you boards, steals, points, blocks, and matchup with different positions. Teams aren't going to select Tatum as the player to attack. You're far better off leaving Tatum alone and COACHING him (a freshman) on better shot selection as opposed to benching him and then replacing him with who? Coach K nor Capel are going to do that and thank God
Tatum is a talented player who is a little selfish. Unfortunately a kid can be both. This wouldn't be near the discussion if Allen was the Allen we had last season. He, not Tatum is the key to the season. If Allen could get that electricity back, then you would see a different Duke team. The team would feed off him and Tatum's play wouldn't be noticed like it is. There is room for 3 scorers on this team: A healthy Allen, Kenard, and Tatum.
There isn't a single player who is a key to this team. The key's to this team are developing a distributor, our guard's learning how to defend a pick and roll, and our young bigs improving (along with Amile getting healthy.)
Tatum apologists? Give me a break. Are you anti-Duke then too? See how that works. Both are ridiculous.
I don't think anyone believes that Jayson hasn't had some issues along the way....some prefer a more hard-line stance, while others look at a multitude of factors. Neither are necessarily right or wrong.
Jayson has struggled some. He's not a bad kid and he's a really, really good player. Being able to harness it all within what Duke wants and needs him to do is where he's struggling right now.
It is crazy to try to lay any proportionally larger blame for the problem at the feet of any one player, particularly Jayson. It is not simply being a blind homer to think that the bashing is crazy over the top. In the most recent game in particular, Jayson made great plays to get quality shots that he probably makes 19 times out of 20. Because he didn't does not make him a selfish player. The only argument I see is on the final play (which no one of earth, Jayson included, would argue wasn't a terrible play), but even that is a narrow snapshot view of the game. If Jayson finishes those drives, that play is moot and everyone is patting his back. If Grayson could throw it in the ocean. If Matt doesn't turn it over right before the half, giving Smith the chance to hit that second late three. And on and on... He is emblematic of the team as a whole, as far as still feeling each other out and establishing roles. They are all "guilty" there.
If guys stop star gazing at Tatum and move and cut, he might have someone to pass to when he attacks the rim or before he takes a shot
I don't think anyone here is blaming all of Duke's struggles on Tatum. He does appear to have a more selfish play to him than Ingram last year. It's his whining to refs when he thinks he was fouled on a missed shot, and his overall aura in general. It's a total 180 difference in watching him play compared to Ingram.
A great college defender? Please, just stop!
Seems to me Tatum is allowed a ton of leeway in shot selection etc. this duke team seems like they've gotten away from what traditionally duke has been known for.. floor slapping finally came back the other day but, defense doesn't seem to be a priority and I see a lot of one on one ball dribbling and driving and flailing.
I'm happy to see this as a unc fan but I think they will eventually get it figured out.
I'm happy to see this as a unc fan but I think they will eventually get it figured out.
I don't think that it's "not a priority" I just think it's a lack of understanding how to play great defense. You can coach until you're blue in the face but kids have to buy in to it and understand how to play it, and unfortunately for us so far that has rarely happened.
I don't think Tatum is necessarily selfish, I just think he's so used to being the guy who takes the shots that he has to adjust to being just one of the guys who takes the shots. Hopefully if he watches himself on film he'll see the difference between taking 12 shots within the offense vs. taking 17 shots, some of which involve forcing a move or shot instead of passing to keep the offense moving. We don't know the kid, he might be the most unselfish guy in the world but is being asked to do something he's never done before. Hopefully he figures it out in the next month or so.
Grayson may be struggling but his dedication to the team has never been questioned.
Grayson may be struggling but his dedication to the team has never been questioned.
Tatum is in the top 2 per game for the following:
Pts
Rebounds
Steals
Blks
He's .5 away from being in the top 2 for assists
Pts
Rebounds
Steals
Blks
He's .5 away from being in the top 2 for assists
Where does he rank on the most important stat - blown assists?
Not saying he doesn't take some ill advised shots, but has any of the Tatum is selfish crowd ever considered that maybe, just maybe, K has been telling him to keep shooting. We need you to be good for us to be great? Maybe something to that affect. Could that be even remotely possible? Once again, I am not saying he is making great decisions all of the time, but selfish is a pretty damning description for someone we personally do not know. Unless the selfish crowd is getting this from the coaches, I think it is uncalled for. I can't and won't argue about the not hurrying back on D after falling out of bounds on missed layups.