They can choose to start their own company.
They can choose to better themselves to rise higher if thy don't like their current salary or position.
They can choose damn near anything they can dream.
Left vs Left
- Thread starter atlkvb
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They can choose to better themselves to rise higher if thy don't like their current salary or position.
They can choose damn near anything they can dream.
Except daring to be "rich". Then the Left is coming after them as "evil".[devil]
Who decides what the cutoff is? Who defines what constitutes uber wealthy? Why can't they have more? The whole premise of your argument is because you want more, but they aren't entitled to the same?
Very confusing and hypocritical logic.
EXACTLY!!!!! They are arguing against their own stated interest (helping those who lack resources move out of poverty or into the middle class) by pre-determining at a certain level, you should no longer be able to have what you've earned, or worse what you've earned is either "unfair" or "too much".
Therefore you need Liberals or the Left to even all of that out, so you don't get to have more than someone who doesn't have as much as you.
They never define though who gets to have what or why? It's sort of a moving target for them. I'm curious what Boomboom521 thinks is "uber" wealthy since he uses that term quite a bit?
Maybe he's "uber" and hates himself?
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That's NOT the premise of my argument at all. I'm fine. I want more for teachers in Miami and Cincinnati schools. I want more opportunities for kids to get to college without debt. I want more for those fighting an uphill battle. I and mine are fine. I liked your story, much like my fathers bootstrap story, but I would love it if some help would have been chucked your way at some point. It's not wanting more that I despise, it's never having enough.
People that bonus seven figures. I think Buffet is uber, so is DJ Combover. One pays his share and beyond, one uses tax law to reduce his share.
See....that's where your obvious intellect takes a turn that scares me. I don't HATE anything. I think you are sheltering a little too much hate and animosity my friend. ESP for a Christian. People see things differently, want different things, but we can still respect and appreciate each other
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How many people do these two people employee? How much revenue to they and their companies add to the Treasury? How much do they donate to charity? How much do they purchase and own that is taxed? How many new companies do they start?
You only look at one side, how much money do they make? The question is how much value do they create for the country?
Remember, it is the small business owner that very often risks it all to start a business. Many, many fail and the risk takers are punished. But some succeed and turn into wildly successful companies. Why punish them when they begin to make it big? If you do, won't you diminish the very risk taking we need in this country?
I don't hate the rich. I don't envy the rich. I am focused on doing all that I can to help my family. Libs tend to have distorted views of the wealthy. They want them punished. But in that punishment, how many others are hurt because of a lack of risk takers, a lack of capital formation to start new businesses, a lack of charitable giving, etc.
We should provide every incentive possible to young people to take risks and innovate and yes, create wealth. It's what has made our country the greatest country the planet has ever seen.
Which one pays his fair share? Certainly not Buffet, he takes the same advantages as the rest of us who invest. Ge doesn't pay anymore than what's required than the rest of us.
To act like what Trump did was some criminal act. Jesus, I and everyone else who can, uses the existing tax code and those loopholes to reduce the amount I have to pay. We paid into the 6 figures last year. That's 2 families worth of income. I did my fair share.
I didn't state that as a fact my friend, cause I don't really know you. And yes we do see things differently but I hope you do not think I don't respect you because I most certainly do! I also read your posts, and try to inform myself by what you say. But as you correctly mentioned I also have logic guided by experience to know that what most Leftists believe is not only perplexing, but by and large unworkable.
I told you I agree with a lot of the sentiments you've expressed about Family, work, priorities, & money balanced against all of that. We agree there are things more important than just pursuit of money.
No argument with you there.
I said we disagree over the prescriptions for helping those in need of assistance, and to what objective.
Our goals probably somewhere intersect, but the path we chose to follow to reach that destination are as divergent as if we were starting from opposite ends of the country...you from the Left (presumably) and me firmly ensconced over here on the right (proudly).
But listen Boomboom521, I think you're probably not as much of a wild-eyed ideologue as many in your party of choice (Democrat) so for you there is at least hope in my opinion. Enjoy your Holiday...if you don't like saying "Merry Christmas" then say whatever makes you 'feel' best, just don't forget to enjoy yourself OK my Man?
Trump and Buffet compared to other people with wealth are certainly not 'uber' anything. Simply calling them "uber" anything still gives no one else a right (least of all the IRS) to what they own, especially to take it by force or just arbitrarily decide they have too much of whatever they've earned.
One thing you will find universally LUVPOWERFB when discussing economics with most folks on the Left, is they have a fundamental misunderstanding or in many cases a complete lack of knowledge of how our free market, free enterprise, profit driven, Capitalist economy functions or operates.
Just go back through this thread and read some of the posts from the Left and this assessment becomes obvious. It is also obvious in the upside down policy positions many of them argue for as a remedy to "fix" what they perceive to be inherent unfairness in human beings engaging in private commerce to their own benefit or for their own purposes. To the Left, the only commerce that anyone should engage in is for the general public welfare (translation Government) instead of in one's own best personal self interests.
Perish the thought if you're on the Left!
A private economy driven by pursuit of individual profit or corporate growth fed by profitably operating in its own best interests not regulated or controlled by an all powerful State is about the worst thing anyone on the Left can possibly imagine. Seriously!
Perhaps exceeded only by disgust over giving Thanks to an Almighty God for granting us the Freedom to have such an economy.
Thanks for the thoughts, friend. As a CPA, I found it humorous that he mentioned the 'bottom line' of a balance sheet, of which there are actually 2 bottom lines, both of which share the same number, neither of which reveal a whole lot. Libs. What can ya' do??
So you're likely more than most to know exactly what I'm talking about when I say the Left just doesn't understand some of the most basic economic principles.
What can you do?
Defeat their goofy ideas is all I can think of. I actually had a discussion with one of 'em on here the other day who thought it was a good idea for local municipalities to set minimum wages for all businesses operating in the town!
Never mind that's not only illegal, but downright impossible. Doesn't matter, this guy said he was "proud" of any local jurisdiction that would propose or legislate such a thing.
Unreal.
Either we have a free market or we don't. I see in areas of trade, we don't (the government steps in on the side of workers and doesn't allow business to do its thing). I see in bailouts (the government steps in on the side of business - and doesn't allow the market to do its thing). I see that wages and benefits had to be manipulated by our government in the past to protect the lives of workers. I see safety and environmental regulations have to be implemented to protect our nation and its people. I don't hate business and the wealthy, I just don't trust them. But I don't trust the government much anymore either. A free market?
You are a fool if you think one pays his share and beyond while the other doesnt.
Merry Christmas Boomer!
Didn't plan on posting today but saw this response you added to something I had posted late last night, so I'm on my tablet this morning and had to just respond quickly (again I'm not on the board today), I'm posting this from my Android tablet so forgive any typos.
It's interesting to me how in this response to all the things you mentioned as problems the Government aimed to "fix" how ironically they are all issues that were created by the very Government you're still trusting to solve.
That is just amazing to me.
You stated you don't hate businesses or the wealthy, but you don't trust them. So then why do you trust the Government? In my mind you should be as suspicious if not more so of them (bureaucrats) because by your own example they're responsible for the very problems you are now expecting them to fix?
Additionally the track record of their proposed solutions has been nothing short of abject failure trying to fix the mess they've created! So pick your issue... Trade, wages, bailouts, environmental or safety regulations, any of the issues you cited as problems that Government has to come in and "fix" it (Government) first not only created but then made worse.
Yet despite all of its best intentions to step in and address any of those issues on behalf of one side or the other you mentioned...whoever the perceived aggrieved party was...all Government did was make things worse because by your own admission we are now not operating in a free market. It's a market artificially controlled, manipulated, regulated, restricted, molested, or interrupted by a big overreaching, cumbersome, confiscatory, inefficient Government.
Whether its through onerous regulations, untenable work rules, impossibly difficult to comply with environmental regulations, crushing debt which is killing capital formation & job creation, idiotic trade rules that make our companies non competitive, arcane operating rules which restrict mergers and acquisitions so companies can get more efficient, or confiscatory taxation which destroys profitability & chases jobs overseas or makes it virtually impossible to start up and operate private enterprises... it doesn't matter, there is one common denominator driving all of the problems facing private business in our Capitalist economy.... and that is State control over the free market.
It is not arguable.
If the very Government you trusted to solve the perceived inequities of the free market and individuals operating freely can't solve those problems and instead creates new ones you now want it to also come and "fix", why do you question or even complain about our lack of Freedom to solve our own problems ourselves?
You wondered in your post if we have a truly free market? Yet you admitted you really don't trust the people acting freely. You instead trust the Government to come in and force them to behave. You're upset about the problems created by that same big Government which refuses to leave us alone to fix our own problems or free to act in our own best interests to solve our issues.
So you have to decide boomboom521... do you want a free market, or one "controlled" by Government deciding how much Freedom we get to exercise?
You have to make up your mind, because the two are mutually exclusive and by definition cannot and do not work together.
I'm fine with government involvement (no, I don't want a large inefficient federal government). I believe that our government is corrupt, and I believe that our government is extremely inefficient. I just hate the argument that a free market is best, but we are not on a free market. Maybe Trump can be an efficient President that uses business knowledge to change our economics for the better, maybe not. I believe in protection by government in the form of regulation (again some are redundant and inefficient) and legislation against discrimination. I believe in States Rights in most difficult issues (abortion, death penalty, dietary restrictions). But a completely "hands off" government? Not good for many.
100% agreement with you in bold face Boomer. Mostly agree with you on the rest of your post except I do trust free markets because that's us...you and me. Of course you have to assume most Freedom loving Americans are also like you and me and only want what's best for ourselves and ultimately for the country, so I'm for Government helping us accomplish that in the free market.
So regulation, yes. Control, no!
Using a sports analogy, I want our Government to act like impartial refs during competitive games (not Big 12 refs BTW) but simply assuring that common rules of the game are fairly enforced in an unbiased way not favoring any one team (or company) over another. So I want free and fair business practices that allow companies to do what's in their best interest without interference or favors from Uncle Sam.
I want individuals free to engage in private commerce without unfair penalties. Just like we'd prefer to have the Zebras let the players play using all of their talent and skill to win only making sure no one unfairly cheats... likewise I want to see the Government refereeing the free market so all the players can compete using their skill and talent to win while Gov't refs make sure no one cheats or tries to gain an unfair advantage illegally or at the expense of the other players.
Simple.
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I have no problem with regulation. A set of rules and a government oversight to see that thise rules are followed seems logical. The problem starts when regulations become a political arm. For instance in one oil and gas state there are regulators who see it as their duty to slow down development and essentially control it. Statements have been made that they cant find enough comments in a permit package so they need to look deeper into the regulations to find new comments. They often try to redefine the obvious intention of a regulatory point to make it more expensive and take longer to get a permit. They often miss their own legal deadlines and they usually use some administrative error in the permit that could have easily rectified the day the permit application was received. In the same state there are other regions which will review and issue permits on schedule. The laws are specific and changing an interpretation of the law away from beat engineering practice simply to slow the developmebt process is not the type of regulation I support.
This exactly!
Precisely the hijinks you've outlined in this post is where I hope Trump "drains the swamp". No one asked them to be Police, Judge and Jury...just make sure everything is legal and fair, then get the Hell out of the way and let entrepreneurs do what their name says they are!
The clean water act of 1971 is a great puece of legislation at face value. Activist epa officials have attempted to add to the law with rules that were not intended by the act.
Using regulations intended for an urban environment to regulate a rural environment is a good example of regulatory craziness. Requiring a company to remove forested area to build stormwater management infrastructure is another.
Yup...add OHSA with their arcane rules, and those two are a "tag team" wrecking crew of job destroying pencil pushers. No Government bureaucrat knows how to better run the businesses or companies they are dictating to than the folks in those businesses...in many cases they don't even know much about them at all! So leave 'em alone, let 'em do what they think is best then if someone claims injury or harm...step in and see if it's legitimate or if any type of regulation is needed to prevent it from happening again or harming others.
Everything else is just busy work for power tripping egotists. Most of 'em are just big time Lefties anyway.