Let’s stir the pot
- Thread starter Curdog7
- Start date
I don’t think it’s BS. The program is bad shape and next year will be worse. Responsibility lies with the HC
You would trade for Underwood? With his two whole seasons in a power 5 conference and that kind of production with a sellout-at-all-costs program? No way!!
Pickell? No.
Now, how many of these guys have more B10 tourney teams than Collins? And under far different circumstances.
Of the remaining coaches, who is switching to a mid-tier (on a good day) program like NU?
So for now, I'll take the devil I know and the one who took a chance on that high school gym.
Oh ... and I wouldn't trade for Fran either simply because he's so obviously a major d' bag.
Pickell? No.
Now, how many of these guys have more B10 tourney teams than Collins? And under far different circumstances.
Of the remaining coaches, who is switching to a mid-tier (on a good day) program like NU?
So for now, I'll take the devil I know and the one who took a chance on that high school gym.
Oh ... and I wouldn't trade for Fran either simply because he's so obviously a major d' bag.
Well, we recruited a highly-rated PG, but for reasons, he never made it to the school. Since we didn't realize we'd need to recruit another PG, I'm sure we were late to the game on finding his replacement.
Good programs don’t hinge their season on a true freshman point guard.
“Yeah, but Lathon didn’t work out” is almost as lame as “Yeah, but it would have been a different season if Taylor met our expectations.”
Good programs don’t rely on true freshmen and lower-conference grad transfers to step in as their starting backcourt.
Yep, next year will be worse. However, NU is the toughest place in the Big Ten to turn around. Small population of eligible players, apathetic fan base, little to no history of pro players, in a pro sports town, students who wouldn’t know the difference between them and Snoop Dog.
Who would want Underwood or Pickell along with the coaches you threw out there? Could these big names at other schools be successful at NU? I doubt most would be.
This is a process. One that has taken steps backwards and next year I think we will be expected to be last in the Big Ten. That’s right I said last. Now we could have a year where we end up 9-10th and I would think that would be great progress and give hope for 20-21. CCC has taken strike one. If this class doesn’t develop, he takes strike 2 and is in jeopardy of whiffing.
We really have not. BMac was pretty good and we had his successor in line to take over. Then he did something and it really screwed things up. Recovery, getting Greer, was OK. So really we did not recruit badly but we were victims of an unfortunate set of circumstances
Actually I do not think that next years team will be that bad. Conference Champions, No. But we likely have a better mix than we did coming into this year. An actual PG physically ready. Several top level wings more ready to play, Turner more comfortable and another actual guard. For sure we will miss Pardon but I think we might be pleasantly surprised by Young and Jones gives us something we have not had in a while. Not sure how much will will miss Law but I feel Turner does much of what he does. And if we were to get a descent Grad Transfer....
Brown was never a true PG. He was a tweener (2 shooting guard that was too small to play the position at this level, but solid athletic ability) And it is typically the best you can do when you have a young established PG that isn't going anywhere. If he had the temperment to adapt to the demands of the PG position, we would have been fine but they could not get him out of his me first scorer mentality. And it is not like other programs don't have guys that do not pan out. THe difference is one that are not going to be part of the mix going forward are no longer here which gives CCC to recruit another.
Most people would want every recruit to work out but most programs have guys that just do not for any number or reasons. We just have a thinner margin of error than most programs.
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Reasonable take. Time will tell.
I disagree about Pickell. I would take him in a heartbeat. Dude can coach
It should be a fun team to watch grow, but it likely will be woefully short on experience to make any noise.
Depends on what you mean by noise. Only have to win 10 games in the BIG to make noise and be a pretty exciting team. Not sure they can do it but I think overall they will be better than this year. I just think they will play better together next year than people think and that they will grow up before our eyes.
I agree with your take on Brown as a player, but still think Collins should have found a way to make it work with him. The way he got cemented to the bench was never explained publicly. Even if he couldn’t have run the point full time this year, Brown could have provided playmaking and spot offense. Anyone who could play key minutes for our only tournament team surely had some value.
He was recruited to be a point guard. Your belief that programs only carry one point guard at a time is comical, and yet you insist it despite evidence to the contrary.
No. Not victims. Few successful programs have a single PG on the roster that changes every four years. Poor planning. Lathom would not have made much of a difference this year.
ONLY win 10 Big Ten games. How often has NU done that?
The roster as constructed now is not going to win 10 Big Ten games next year. I do think it will be a fun team to watch, but even with my purple tinted glasses don't see that many Big Ten wins. Hope I am terribly wrong.
But we are now playing 20 BIG games rather than the 18 we played when we won 10 or the 16 we were playing before. 10 isn't the hurdle it was and any where from 8-10 would make things pretty interesting
He may have been recruited to try to fill in the gap by trying to develop him as a PG but he had not played the position. While teams try to get second PGs, generally the best they can usually do is every other year. But we needed a backup to BMac sooner because Sobo was leaving. Brown was an attempt to fill in that gap. He had the athletic ability but had not really played the position so he would need to be developed. Teams tend to have one main PG and another that can fill in but Brown never was able to adjust to the role
When he was recruited to the position it was at a point it would have been extremely difficult to get a top level true PG. (BMacs frosh year they still had Sobo. CCC tried to get around that with his LG approach and getting someone who had the athletic ability. But once he was here, even his presence on the roster made it even more difficult the following year as anyone thinking of the position would see BMac and him in the way of getting any minutes But he never developed to the role they had for him. He had the potential but never took to the position. They tried to get a number of top guys but wiffed at least partially because they had two guys on the roster
What you’re describing is failure by the Northwestern coaching staff, but I respect that you’ve come off of your assertion that programs use a one-guy-every-four-years approach to the PG.
Nope, Brown never was a point guard. He was an out-of-control 2 and a turnover machine.
Can she play point guard? There would be a place for her on the Men's team if she can.
Which is precisely the point. He was brought in by the staff to back up at the point guard, even though he was the primary scorer on a bad high school team. He was a square peg - and the only option - the day he signed.
Not saying it is not desirable to have more than one PG on the roster. Just that circumstances dictate when guys can be effectively recruited. And often if the guy you have is top notch, there would not be minutes for the 2nd guy. The most any program can get one is every other year and more likely every 3rd or 4th) and even that is pretty limited as a top guy wants to see minutes and not spending two years or more on the bench only to be recruited over. A way around this is to get a crossbreed kind of guy that has the tools to work 10 minutes in the PG role but has other skills as well so they have other ways of getting on the court (an example might be Demps). Another way it can happen is when a team gets a new HC as recruits do not see minutes guaranteed to the last coaches guy which is how CCC was able to get BMac.
When they brought Brown, they saw him as that crossbreed \ypr guy. They tried to make him into something he never was but that physically he was suited for. We were losing Sobo so we needed another guy that could handle the point but we had just taken BMac and given him the keys so no legitimate PG was going to come in CCC had to get creative to get anyone so he took a guy with the physical tools to try to fill the need. But Brown never embraced the role. And at that stage of the recruiting cycle that is what could be gotten because the year after getting the guy you give the keys to the car to, you are going to have a real hard time (basically no chance) getting a higher level PG. Then he was in place the following year as supposedly the backup so no good PG is going to come into that position. Having two guys on the roster for the following year really handicapped getting another true PG until BMac was at the end of his term. A potential PG recruit would see two guys and no available minutes even if that was not the case. .
Actually having Greer and not giving him the keys yet puts CCC in a better position to get another PG than he has been in since BMac got here. A solid PG will see available minutes and look at it as an opportunity
Oh and bye the way CCC is not the only one that only had one PG at a time. Same was true of BC
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who is winston's back-up? the little white kid? i think dejulius backs up simpson at michigan and is not the answer. wisconsin without davidson? nebraska without watson? etc.... etc..
it is very unlikely for most teams to have a very good back up capable of 30 min handling the ball. an injury is brutal to that position.
losing the primary 30 min ball handler 3 months before the season - devastating.
losing your secondary 10 min a game ball handler (ash) in season - can't plan for that
Yeah, we know, because players should hsve been lined up to come here to get splinters sitting behind Bmac. The most common reasons for transferring put of programs is playing time, so I am guessing it is important to college basketball players...
Plenty of minutes to go around. Most programs have more than two decent ball-handling guards at any time. Fewer programs start frosh than don’t. And many of those programs are one and dones, we don’t get those.
So, #fakenews.
A. I said ball handling guards.
2. Can’t say I watch enough to answer. Come NCAA tourney and I will answer. And promise that there will be plenty blue blood programs in that answer. Might watch some NIT and name you a few from the lesser programs too.
Ash was a dud, Greer doesnt belong, and Brown didnt work out. So we are left with 10 small forwards.
Illinois has Frazier, Ayo, and Feliz. All three would be the best ball handling guard on NW by a significant margin.
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