Thornton, Allen, Kennard, Jeter, Plumlee. Jones off the bench. Duke gave up 12 offensive of rebounds to one Syracuse player and we lose by two. Frustrating, is it possible that Jeter cannot clean up the boards a bit. Despite some of our poor play we have lost our last three games by a few buckets.
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- Thread starter GabeM1234
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As much as I wish Jeter was ready he's just not, but I do believe in continuing to give him chances in hoping something clicks. You could debate that when we were playing lesser opponents Jeter should have played more to get him more comfortable and ready for ACC play. Jeter fouled out in 5 minutes vs Clemson. I don't know what you do with that?
Jones just has to play better, as with other players as well. Who knows, maybe the light clicks for Thornton at some point. He played really poor the first 75% of the game vs Cuse and has been playing poor lately but he did hit 2 big 3's to make the game close vs cuse, so maybe he gets a confidence boost? I wouldn't bank on it, because Similar to Matt, he just doesn't have good form on his shot that would make you believe he's all of a sudden going to be more consistent. My biggest issue with Thornton right now is he doesn't know how to drive. He throws up crazy wild shots. You also see he doesn't have the confidence in his driving ability because he can get into the paint at will. It reminds me of greg paulus driving. Greg had an awesome pump fake and ability to get in the paint, but he had no feel for runners vs stopping for the jump shot vs taking it the entire way and subsequently turned it over or took a shot with minimal chance to go in similar to what Thornton is doing now.
If you look at the last 3 games other than his tip in late against Syracuse Ingram has completely disappeared. Some of it may be due to foul trouble but if you look at the stats and re-watch the games his offensive production is just not very good.
In the Clemson game BI was red hot for the first half. In fact, he was the reason we stretched out to the double-digit lead. That third foul (and fourth right after halftime) destroyed him mentally. After that he looked like a freshman. Against ND he scored 25 points on 7-14 shooting....with 10 of those points coming in the last 10 minutes. Last night he struggled, I'll give you that. For the first time all season I thought he was backing away from the contact.
If you look at the last 3 games what sticks out to me is Duke had the lead going into halftime.. Down the stretch of the game with about 8 minutes to go, Duke begins to get sloppy on both ends of the court. I honestly think the lineup needs to be changed so that guys are not completely exhausted in the 2nd half. When guys are tired they play sloppy defense and get beat rebounding. By having Jeter and Obi out there playing at the minimum they should be able to get a few rebounds which in turn could be the possession we need to win the game.
And if we don't shoot 27% from three we could have won too. That's my point. I'm not sure there's one answer, as much as any of us want to think there is. It's a collective thing. And IMO, one of the biggest right now is that this team is searching for a way to win late in the game. We take last year for granted....but think about the late-game heroics we saw last season. It was pretty incredible.
You can point to a lot of things- you can point to in the ND loss, they miss the front end of a 1 and one, and we miss the blockout assignment and it costs a chance to have a game tying shot. Just this stretch, the bounces, the loose balls, the 50/50 chances have all seemed to go against us. Sometimes that happens. However, the problem I believe is that with six guys, 4 of which are freshmen, we need to explore ways to avoid getting into these tight games i think our mental toughness is difficult to sustain b/c we're mentally fatigued. The number of offensive boards that we have given up is alarming, so X's and O's adjustments will need to be made, that's just the truth. We'll see what they draw up, but I do agree at some point you have to go some stretches where you're sacrificing offense and you're playing two bigs at the same time to help on the defensive end. It makes us a much much bigger team when you move BI to the 3.
Here is really wild idea ... Please hear me out.
If we do not feel that an early NCAA exit is that much better than NIT, then I guess everyone agrees that our season ends miserably one way or the other unless Jeter and Obi develop. Even a mid Feb Jefferson return would not change this as 7 is still not enough.
Assuming that it takes certain game minutes for them to develop (I know many people would not buy into this assumption), then the best thing to do is actually to start these two ASAP. There are two reasons:
1) We would lose the game if they two play many minutes. So might as well lose early rather than late, if we are already determined to give them such minutes. A last season loss is more damaging than an early or mid season loss for our NCAA bids.
2) Since we would lose the game anyway, might as well concentrate such minutes in as few games as possible to minimize the number of losses. Hence let them start.
Sounds like suicide. But the only better alternative is that these two develop in practices while the other 6 keep winning games. Not likely for this to happen, and even if it would, the 6 would be totally spent in March.
If we do not feel that an early NCAA exit is that much better than NIT, then I guess everyone agrees that our season ends miserably one way or the other unless Jeter and Obi develop. Even a mid Feb Jefferson return would not change this as 7 is still not enough.
Assuming that it takes certain game minutes for them to develop (I know many people would not buy into this assumption), then the best thing to do is actually to start these two ASAP. There are two reasons:
1) We would lose the game if they two play many minutes. So might as well lose early rather than late, if we are already determined to give them such minutes. A last season loss is more damaging than an early or mid season loss for our NCAA bids.
2) Since we would lose the game anyway, might as well concentrate such minutes in as few games as possible to minimize the number of losses. Hence let them start.
Sounds like suicide. But the only better alternative is that these two develop in practices while the other 6 keep winning games. Not likely for this to happen, and even if it would, the 6 would be totally spent in March.
I smell a troll, maybe more than one.
Anyway, I'd like to see Grayson come off the bench. His defense leads to breakdowns more often than not, and I think his game would be more effective once a few of the opponents are sucking wind. I'd like to see him play the final 12-14 of each half. Luke can handle those other minutes and plays more consistent D. Matt should only shoot when open. Otherwise, drive under control and kick.
Anyway, I'd like to see Grayson come off the bench. His defense leads to breakdowns more often than not, and I think his game would be more effective once a few of the opponents are sucking wind. I'd like to see him play the final 12-14 of each half. Luke can handle those other minutes and plays more consistent D. Matt should only shoot when open. Otherwise, drive under control and kick.
There certainly need to be adjustments made. I think Grayson's defense for the majority of the night was actually pretty good. He was chasing cooney all night long and when was on him he normally held him without scoring. Now defense especially when you are trying to stop penetration is a learned skill. Matt is said to be one of the better on ball defenders in the country and even he has a tough time. Doesn't make it any easier to watch, but Grayson is still learning, i'm more inclined to give him a pass there, although it is frustrating, so I can see that. We need to get better. The thing we do not do well as a team, is rebound. That is clear as day. a lot of it is effort, getting your *** into someone and boxing out. Perimiter guys do not do this very much b/c they want to get out on the break as fast as possible- however without Amile, we have no choice. MP3 can't do it all- he was atrocious against ND, and absolutely spectacular against Cuse. SO kudos to him. Effort was there for 40 min.
No. Not at all. This is the year where the top teams are not that great. So a higher seeding in NCAA does not buy much. It may pay to sacrifice the regular season record IF that can help you get ready for March better.
In other words, given two scenarios A) we enter March with a higher seed but less developed bench and more exhausted 6, vs. B) a lower seed but better developed role players and better rested 6, I would say B) is better than A). If Amile returns, it is not entirely impossible to make a run as a low seed like UK and Conn did, if the large amount of minutes somehow get Obi and Jeter better.
The best strategy, in my mind, is to play Obi and Jeter as much as possible (with as many per game minutes as possible), as long as we still get in. (This of course assumes that game minutes help them get better. It certainly cannot hurt. Maybe all they need is some mental adjustment -- whereas the game situation gets their competitiveness going and let them dig deeper to find another gear. It is at least worth a try for a few games to see what happens.)
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You do not know me. So please do not judge lest you be judged yourself.
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Over the last 3 games Ingram has averaged 18 ppg and 6.3 rpg. He might've struggled some over the last 3 games but I don't see how you can say that he completely disappeared over the last 3 games.
I am not trying to be negative but you should probably re-read my post. I said he has disappeared in the 2nd half of these 3 games. I would also be willing to say he only has 2 or 3 buckets in the final 5 minutes of those 3 games but I may be wrong on that. I think Brandon is a good player but just don't see a star and that's ok. I believe he is doing all he can for our program and I also believe his physical stature is a downfall for him late in games. I think Syracuse kind of bullied him around which caused him to drift around the 3 point line most of the night.
Ingram had 2 points in the 2nd half against Clemson, 9 points against ND, and 5 against Syracuse for an average of 5.3 points per game in the 2nd half of those 3 loses.
In your first post that I quoted, you never mentioned anything about the second half. You only said he's disappeared in the last 3 games.
Maybe you will one day spell out what that "something" is.
In the mean time, this is what specifically "ain't right" with you -- everyone is a troll, unless he or she thinks within the narrow confines defined by your limited imagination and intellect.
Aren't you supposed to be impartial as a moderator? You do know he started his personal attack first despite my trying to keep it civil.
We should go back to the sub pattern from 2010. The first TV timeout bring in Kennard, Obi, and Jeter and let these guys work together in practice. The Plumlees came in together on that 2010 team. Pump these guys up to come in with energy to fire up the team and rest the starters. Let the first team play harder knowing they are getting a breather. I should have been a coach. I would have Obi play the part that Meahar (sp) played and rough up the best inside player the other team has.
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This is a message board. Toughen up a bit. Just because someone thinks what you say is ridiculous or ludicrous doesn't make it a personal attack. This isn't third grade. Posters aren't going to see eye-to-eye all the time.
If so, then why do I alone need to "lighten up or leave or both", Sergeant Hulka? Why can the other soldiers not toughen up a bit when it is my turn?
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So what you're saying is, bossing around a mod and acting like a child is not the best way to stay around here?
Agree to move on.
But whoever or whatever the big toe is, anyone stepping on my toe will get stepped back on. And I can step pretty hard.
Dbav, please do not call me a "child". I have done you no harm. Not that I am afraid, I am hoping to move on.So what you're saying is, bossing around a mod and acting like a child is not the best way to stay around here?
Foul trouble had a lot to do with that. Kid is being asked to do an awful lot for the team.
Not at all. I don't understand why so much hostility, just because I phrased Duke rebounding as "truly poor" and threw out some out-of-box idea for the rest of our season? I put in quite some time for those posts hoping to enrichen the contents of this forum.
"Judging" someone "ain't right" in his face is not so funny for the recipient. Picking sides based on "big toe" without regard to fairness is not what a good mod would do.
I came back to my own Alma Mater's board to talk hoops with people who share the same passion for Duke basketball. Why do your old timers have to make it so hostile, not just for me, but anyone who is not exactly in your mold?
Do those of you have to attack the old gentleman so relentlessly who posted for the first time to hear people's thoughts on why Nick got more minutes? Do those of you have to mock "Get Nasty" so vividly because he was rightly/wrongly negative on MP3 for one game? Can you not entertain a civil question?
Yet when someone love-taps back, then those of you get pissed at the heat. It goes both ways...
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It's the way this board has always been for the last 10 years that i've been watching/participating. There are a group of participants that have a great deal of knowledge of the duke program but are still a bit archaic in their thinking more so with regards to type of players and and their style of play. They've also built somewhat of a bond where they stick up for each other and are hesitant or down right against opinions that differ. It's been funny over the years to see the same people that did not want K to recruit the one and done to be completely joyed with last year(rightfully so) and thrilled for next year's class that could have 2-4 frosh go(rightfully so). My point is they are slowly coming around, but there's still a love for the old way and old school player clearly. You don't see posters blasting calipari for his recruiting style the way they were a few years ago.
But hey, everyone can change, myself included. I'm trying to do a better job of calling out the good with the bad. My opinions are based on what I see and limited behind the scenes knowledge, so I definitely enjoy and appreciate getting that here.
Marshall played awesome against Vtech and Cuse. His energy specifically on D was off the charts. K needs to let him go like that every game, and get that out of him. Help him play smart, but if he gets in foul trouble so be it, and in game adjust. The tentative stuff is only going to lead to a loss anyway, so play to win, don't play to not lose because of quality depth.