Lonnie Johnson was recruited to play CB
- Thread starter ScrewDuke1
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I think that is to combat the number of large WR's that are playing today. Nothing to see receivers that are 6'4, 6'5 running routes. One could question the speed and quickness compared to 5'11/6'0 corners, but I guess that is up to each DC's theory on how they want to recruit !
How is Johnson in run support? They don't show many open field tackles in hudl videos lol. If he don't mind rolling up and putting a hat on someone then I'd say yeah he's gonna play nickel. If he's good enough to take a starting spot from Baity or Westry either one then he must be pretty damn good.
To play devil's advocate, there are really only a handful of wide receivers in the SEC East that are in the 6'3 and above range. Most teams might have one starting WR that is a taller guy, but most of their guys are going to hover around 6 feet. I can understand one tall corner to negate that tall receiver, but is it good to have that philosophy for all corners?
Also, from what I can tell, height isn't a huge factor in most passing situations. For us it seems that most completed passes against us come when the opponent is wide open, so height is 100 percent negated. We are talking about Johnson playing nickelback. That corner often takes the slot receiver, which is often speedy and short. So, his height wouldn't be a huge factor there because slot receivers are largely getting open on slants and drags and then using speed to pick up more yards. Juice was great at this last year.
I trust Stoops in this regard, but think it is an interesting discussion about our recruiting strategy.
If a guy can cover, I guess height really doesn't matter as much. Daryl Green of the Redskins is widely regarded as one of, if not the best corner of all time, and he was only 5'8. Westry and Baity are both 6'3 or better, and they have had their moments, but have also gotten beat on several occasions.
On the bright side they can practice covering Baker, Bone, and Holtzclaw, all between 6'3 and 6'7 so when they do run up against a tall WR, they will be somewhat prepared.
Take a look at his Hudl video. I am extremely pleased that he is going to be a Cat!! With this kind of recruiting, there is a bright future for our defense. Go Cats!!
I think it is a great thing if they can cover. They say the biggest thing that one of the biggest things to look for in a corner is the ability to get his hips around, which obviously adds to how quickly they can turn and run or adjust to the route of the receiver. Not sure if height has anything to do with that ability, but it does make you wonder if an increase in height has any effect on the player's ability to react and/or get their hips around.
I will say, if nothing else, I like that the guy is physical and that he isn't afraid to use his hands and use his bigger frame to get receiver off of their routes. Done properly, that can be a big time advantage of a corner who is bigger. They can, within some reason, muscle around a bit smaller receiver.
Nice post Comeback. I tend to agree.
I think the "size" thing in the secondary is becoming a bit "over rated". Don't get me wrong, IF a player has adequate quickness and "swivel" with the size, that's great. But without the quickness and hip swivel required for the position he will likely not be iable to effectively use his size. When you get right down to it, if in the proper defensive position, there are very few passes thrown where a 6'3" defender can "make a play" that a 5'11" defender can not. And, as you say, if the receiver is open it really doesn't make a difference.
But if you do play a bunch of press coverage you need "enough" size and strength to deliver that initial punch. I will note that, as a "general rule", the CBs usually take the widest receivers and the safety and/or nickel defenders usually take the inside receiver.
Peace
Like all new players, Lonnie Johnson will be evaluated in practice, and will have to earn a role. Until that happens, it doesn't matter what the media says about him. He might have flexible hips, but he has a safety body. Would bet he will end up as a safety to compete for McWilson's safety spot after Marcus graduates, but this needs to be worked out in practice.
Westry and Baity are really good, high upside corners, and won't be beaten out by a new player. Harmon is graduating, but Jordan Griffin and Davonte Robinson are 2 more high upside corners. So our need at cornerback is less urgent than it has been in a long time. I don't doubt that Lonnie Johnson will get some practice reps at a corner position, and he might play some nickel. But I think he will mostly be a safety when the big games are played. That's a bigger need. I think they are calling him a corner now because they still want Lynn Bowden.
I think if you're in a proper defensive position then the height can become a bit of a factor. There are some instances where you can out jump the receiver or you can possibly cut your coverage short and jump for an interception before it ever gets to the receiver, or just being taller cuts out some of the window for the quarterback to throw into if you're shielding (with head properly turned) the receiver. I think height can certainly be a factor, but you first have to be in the position to make it a factor. So, as you said, you have to have that proper swivel and quickness to get around and get in that good defending position.
One issue I have with UK is that we don't often seem to use much press coverage. We seem to give too much cushion. I would like to see that change with us having some bigger corners. If we get more of a pass rush then I don't mind a cushion, but with such a small pass rush I feel like it would be better to press the receiver and take away the quick throw and give our defensive line/linebackers time to get into the backfield.
1. Baity is strong at his CB spot...I'd argue Westry had a really 'meh' Sophmore season. I'd love to see Johnson push Westry and/or upgrade the CB spot by taking it straight up from Chris. In the end, UK rotates CB so we'll play a lot of Baity/Westry/Johnson.
2. UK plays a ton of Cover 3 with just a single deep safety and no deep help at CB...so size for deeper balls vs. under/middle throws is sort of a design of Stoop's defense and why we prefer bigger recruits.
2. UK plays a ton of Cover 3 with just a single deep safety and no deep help at CB...so size for deeper balls vs. under/middle throws is sort of a design of Stoop's defense and why we prefer bigger recruits.
You are right about Baity. BTW, Baity was a low 3 star, so was Benny, which reiterates a lesson about our coaches' eval abilities that our fans still need to learn. You are right about the advantage of size in our secondary on deep balls, as long as the guy with size is assignment sound and in the right defensive position on the play. I disagree with you about Westry, who only had a "meh" sophomore season because he is hurt. I assume you attend the games at Commonwealth. If you watch Westry, he comes out of most games badly limping at some point. It looks like an ankle that has bothered him since October. Westry has an NFL future. Baity and Westry will be "pushed" because Stoops has other really good corners, especially Robinson, Griffin. It is unlikely that Lonnie Johnson, who has never played on a corner in his life, will come in as a new player and take over even Griffin's role, much less Westry's. Johnson is not an "upgrade" as a corner, because cornerback is already the strongest roster position on our team and Johnson has never played cornerback. But Johnson might be an upgrade at nickel, especially with McClain graduating. Johnson has been measured multiple times at 6-3 and more than 200 pounds. He has an ideal safety body, and he is an experienced safety. All new players get basic evals in the spring, and I'm sure you are right that Johnson will get spring reps at every secondary position. But speaking as a guy who has been through this, I think they are calling Johnson a corner now because they have a commitment from Ajian and a good shot to sign Lynn Bowden. They badly want Bowden. Although Bowden can play receiver, the kid is 1 of the best looking high school safety prospects I have seen in a long time. Signing Bowden, Ajian, Johnson, King, Paschal, Evans, Richardson, Clark, Koback, Watkins would make this Stoops' best class yet. But Bowden, Ajian, Paschal, Koback, Clark are really the special building block players in this group.
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According to the HL article, Johnson has 2 to play 2. They took him because he can enroll next month.
1. In the video of Lonnie Johnson he lined up at CB almost the entire film....so I don't see where you state "Lonnie has never played corner in his life".
- Justin Rowland from Rivals.com has reported that Kentucky recruited Johnson as a cornerback. He’s listed at 6-foot-3 and 190 pounds.
- Johnson can play either cornerback or safety, but he told DawgNation last week that he would rather play cornerback. Georgia is definitely in need of cornerbacks for the Class of 2017.
In the end UK has a bigger need at Free Safety and we'll see where Stoops wants Lonnie Johnson to compete at.
Lynn Bowden is a Randall Cobb-ish kind of recruit. Is playing QB but has crazy running skills and looks to be a slot WR, punt/KO return and part time RB prospect moreso than safety. But again, once he commits (it feels a certainty he'll verbal to UK) Stoops will find the spot he needs him at. But if Boom goes to NFL...it wouldn't shock me a bit to see him get some snaps at RB next year for Bowden.
I know you are a studious fan who likes to debate, and I don't want to spar about this. You may have seen Lonnie Johnson in a video, but that doesn't dispute what I said. Today's offensive sets often feature 3-4 wideouts. That's why safeties sometimes get lined up in man coverage over receivers. You may have seen Johnson lined up over a receiver. But he has a safety background. Stoops is going all out to sign Lynn Bowden, a truly great player who can be built around for 4 years. Having been through this kind of thing, coaches know they keep a recruit's attention by talking to him about an open job he can compete for. The open job for Bowden is McWilson's safety job. You may have seen a listing of Lonnie Johnson at 190 pounds, but most have him over 200 pounds. Even at 190, he has a safety body. Johnson should get reps in the spring at every position in our secondary. Johnson can probably help with replacement of McClain at nickel. He won't beat out Westry or Baity, 2 future NFL corners. BTW, even playing hurt, Westry was 1 of the best corners in the country against the run, a big need for our team. If Jordan Griffin stays at corner, Johnson won't beat out Griffin either. But he could start at safety opposite Mike Edwards. Let's just see what happens. Okay?
That is my take as well, unless there is a separate plan to move Westry (at 6'4") or D. Robinson to safety, otherwise, we are going to have some pretty highly regarded defensive backs on the bench if they all are going to play CB. Kendall Randolph I see as a backup and special teams player, don't think he is going to be a starter at CB or safety either one.