I think it's fair to say some of them should be higher than they are now. IC, for example, is beginning to look a little out-of-place in 3A. Is there a multiplier that you would suggest?
Loyola - MC Final Thread
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You have plenty of solid arguments to make w/o needing to include this bit of FUD
I wasnt referring to IC specifically or at all really. But my point is even private schools dont want to play private schools nor publics that would be more competitive. Thats why Marist had to be in the Blue, schools ducking smoke.
Id say the system we currently have is the Prep Bowl in that it often pits one school that is completely overmatched for various reasons against a private school.
Im not in favor of a split currently because I think there are ways to fix it, but that takes acknowledgment that a fixing is in order.
A little over a decade ago The Brook was the power in girls hoops. Once we started winning girls were transferring in, and the vast majority of the games turned into laughers. It got to the point where the only enjoyable game was against Whitney Young. It wasnt even fun for me as a fan to support that.
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One thing I would like to see with the Catholic League is that the fourth-place team in each division switches places with the first-place team in the division below. For example, if Marist is fourth in the Blue and Nazareth is first in the Green, Marist goes to the Green and Nazareth goes to the Blue the following year. I think it would be an easy way to get teams into the most appropriate divisions within a few years.
My understanding is that someone refused to go into the Blue.
I think that would be a good solution.
What else could be interesting: I know this isn't as easy as it sounds and could cause other big issues. What if all schools were allowed to opt in to the top-tier playoff bracket?
Meaning MC, Loyola, ESL, LWE, Batavia, BR, Maine South, Montini, Morris - whomever - could say they want to be in the top tier. You say 24-32 teams are needed for it to work, and then say it's set for 10 years and let the best (or have teams win in or lose out of the bracket), or those that want to play the best, be a part of it, then leave the other classes as is.
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With the new playoff system, in which they need no more than three wins to make the bracket, I wonder why they're so bothered about the prospect of losing three games.
I would LOVE to see EStL play Mt Carmel again!!!!!!!!!!
I say we wait until the end of the season and weigh the public - private debate then
my prediction
All but 1 private state champion will have a regular season loss against a public school
of that’s the case… will it settle any of the arguments???
my prediction
All but 1 private state champion will have a regular season loss against a public school
of that’s the case… will it settle any of the arguments???
Not sure. But I think its just an example showing that they really dont want to play teams that they suspect will be tough for them to beat if they can avoid it.
I wonder who it was. There's quite a large list of candidates to be the Catholic League's fourth-best team any given year.
"Lighten up Francis" -- that's the best you could do?
Very sad.
I've been proposing that for years. Except for the very tiny ones, alll CCL schools should be in 6A or higher.
I agree with most of your post but the part about private schools being better academically is false. The only schools I can think of that are better academically are maybe St. Ignatius, Loyola and Benet. Chicago Public Schools not included.
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe they re-align every two years. Marist was overmatched this year however next year I think they will make things a little closer with the other teams but not by much and go 0-3 and get relegated down. As for moving up I would assume Rita OR Iggy would be natural fits to go up due to rivalries and recent success (Iggy as an 8A team now that beat Maine South).
They do re-align every two years. I cannot confirm or deny that they chosen team did not want to move to blue. I have no knowledge of that but I believe there is discussion that goes into it, it is not just a math problem and divisions are set.
I just hope they look at the size of the school's football program and set the divisions based on that and not actual enrollment.
Rita won the Green.
They do this but with a little more data then just swapping 4th and 1st every two years.
There are a few more that are very highly regarded academically...Naz/SF/Fen/Marmion, just saying.
I'm not saying they aren't highly regarded but when you look at their course offerings they just don't match the offerings of a majority of public schools. The poster said education they have to offer so I based it on the offerings. Unfortunately you can't look up what the average ACT score is of most private schools because they don't list the actual average anywhere. If I have a high achieving kid, regardless of athletics or not, public schools have more course offerings of AP and Dual Credit courses than others. I'm not just saying schools like New Trier and Stevenson. Suburban Chicago public schools have more offerings in general and they take everyone who lives in their boundaries. Going to a Private school is a personal choice. I get it. I have two high school kids and one goes to a CCL school and one is at our public school. I'm pretty confident that our public school kid has much stronger academic offerings and teachers than our private school kid but our private school kid wanted the smaller environment.
They
They literally already do this, just over a 3 year time span to avoid teams being relegated due to one bad year.
A large number of course OFFERINGS provided by large suburban public schools and large CPS selective enrollment schools certainly translates to strong variety of academic areas of study and tracks within those areas, but I do not believe it necessarily translates to overall excellence in teaching and learning. It could very well be that a small or medium sized school (private or public) with fewer offerings than many larger public schools does a better job of teaching those fewer offerings to a higher achieving student body. Medium sized public schools like Payton, Northside College Prep and Deerfield High School, as well as private schools like Loyola, Ignatius, Fenwick, and Benet come to mind immediately.
I don't think it's all about teaching excellence when the clientele are all well prepared for high school. It's really about who is in the seats when it comes to high achievement. Student growth is another story but that's now what we're talking about. You brought up 3 public schools that either are selective enrollment or are in a very wealthy area. Most kids that go to the private and public schools you mentioned are well prepared from the get go. How would teaching and learning go in those schools if the kids who walk into the school weren't fully prepared or didn't have the resources to have success in those courses. Do you think Loyola Ignatius or Benet would have those scores if anyone could attend?
It all depends on how you want to measure academic excellence. Do you measure it by student outcomes? Academic offerings? Teaching credentials and excellence?
I can think of several large suburban public high schools that likely have a ton of academic offerings that are not a place where I would want to send my kids.
Do you think your excellence measurement of the variety and number of AP and dual credit classes mean a hill of beans to the vast majority of "kids who walk into the school" not fully prepared?
Great points. I'm not really sure how to measure academic excellence. There are so many factors. New Trier and Stevenson are highly ranked right? According to the US News and World Reports. I wouldn't pick a school just because it's highly ranked. That's just me though. The current rankings really just look at ACT scores and Graduation rate. I would guess those are the two most common metrics used in whatever rankings you look at. Average students aren't just going to score a 36 on the ACT because they go to those schools. An academically average kid is going to be an average kid wherever they go. Just because my kid goes to Stevenson they aren't going to magically score a 30. Honestly an average kid at a high academically achieving school is likely going to be in the lower tier academically, and they may get lost in the shuffle. That's not good for them. It's all about personal preference. What fits your family and of course your kid best is most important.
Honest question for you. Do you think kids that go to Stevenson or Ignatius score high on the ACT because they are better schools than say Lake Zurich and Montini? IMO no. There are just a lot more kids that are well prepared and honestly just brilliant academically. If you swapped out Stevenson teachers and Lake Zurich teachers do you think LZ would automatically be a better school? Not likely. It's more about the kids that walk through the doors.
The original poster said "offer". That is what I was basing my side of the discussion on. Private schools in general don't offer as much academically as public schools.
In general, yes. But that is due in part to most private schools being college prep in focus and not comprehensive by necessity as are most public schools. You won't find shop classes in most private schools. You won't find the same percentage of kids with IEPs in private schools as you do in public schools.
You do use the words "in general," which is good because we should be careful of absolutes. For example, Loyola offers five foreign languages, and Lake Forest Academy offers four. Prospect High School, a public school with 200 more kids than Loyola and 1,700 more than Lake Forest Academy, offers three foreign languages.
I think it is worth noting in this discussion that, in pretty much all faith based private schools, there are entire academic departments devoted to religious studies. Depending on the school, faith based private school students are required to take upwards of four years of those classes. There are a relative handful of public schools in this state that offer religious studies coursework, but only as electives housed in a social studies department.
These are excellent points. I actually wish that more public schools offered a wider variety of languages even if it is an elective course. From my perspective public schools are bound to the tax payers and they have to be fiscally responsible on their offerings. If only 8 kids sign up for a Latin class at a public school I'm pretty sure they won't have the class run that year and those kids would have to choose a different course. I think I did preface by saying that St. Ignatius, Loyola and Benet might have more to offer than some public schools so I'm not surprised that they offer those languages.
With religion I wholeheartedly agree that a private faith based school should offer religious courses. Many people choose a catholic school so that their kids can have a spiritual connection while attending school. It's much different at a public school since it is against the law to indoctrinate kids and teaching a religion course could have an impact on that.
I've actually looked into the religion courses offered in District 214. Prospect High School has a very well known Social Studies teacher that was recognized across the country for his connection to those courses. I think he is also the Boys Basketball Coach, John Camardella. I'm almost certain he has a Masters degree from Harvard Divinity School and was able to create these courses from scratch. To be able to teach religion courses at a public school takes a special person. Ive heard Camardella is a great educator and teaches about the history of religions across the world. It is not specific to one religion but explores many different religions across the world. If I were a senior in high school I would absolutely take that class.
And I actually had heard of the religious studies courses at Prospect as well, but I did not know that John Camardella was the educator behind them. When I saw that last name, I did a little googling.
It turns out that John Camardella is the son of the late Jim Camardella, a former math teacher at Loyola Academy for many years in the 80s and 90s. Jim was a Xaverian brother for a long time before leaving the order, marrying, and starting a family late life. I knew Jim. Great guy with a thick NY accent.
It turns out that John Camardella is the son of the late Jim Camardella, a former math teacher at Loyola Academy for many years in the 80s and 90s. Jim was a Xaverian brother for a long time before leaving the order, marrying, and starting a family late life. I knew Jim. Great guy with a thick NY accent.
Iggy, Loyola, and Benet are fine schools, but they ain't got nothing on Mt. Carmel, where I had two years each of Latin, German, and Russian. Our top 30 were as good as any school's top 30.
My theology class at MC had a profound effect on my 14-year-old mind. So much so that I went on to study philosophy in college.
My theology class at MC had a profound effect on my 14-year-old mind. So much so that I went on to study philosophy in college.
Small world. I’ve heard amazing things about the younger camardella as an educator.
Anyway, 4$ a pound.
Back to football. lol.
Glad to hear that you could study Russian at MC, and I'm surprised that you had enough room in your schedule for six years of languages.
Loyola offered Russian when I was a student, although I didn't take it. Loyola also offered Mandarin when I was there in the 70s and was probably one of only a handful of schools that offered that language back then. Now, Mandarin is a far more common offering in Illinois schools.
Jim Camardella taught me geometry at LA. He could have sold that NY accent for millions.
Nope. Spanish for me. Went to Spain with Father Beall and the summer school program Loyola had there way back when. If you took Spanish at LA, we probably had a bunch of the same teachers.
