Anyone have any pics from first day of how he looks from offseason workouts going into his junior year. I hope he turns out to be the star that was projected and I think his offseason results will show if he really wants it or not.
Matt Elam?
- Thread starter sluggercatfan
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Still pretty overweight, but looks to have gained a ton of muscle. Not sure how much fat he lost and muscle he gained, but he does look a lot better.
Matt is a big boy...has needed to work on his weight since he arrived...but at some point it's not the weight, it's everything else...he's always been a big boy, will always be a big boy...
He's a nose tackle, that isn't a stat filler position...he isn't the primary tackler or QB chaser...he is there to clog a gap and keep OL off of the LBs so they can make the plays...
what is just as important as losing weight and being in the best physical condition he can be in is all the small fundamental things such as technique, timing, understanding his role and the nuances of his position...
being so big, it is very easy for OL to get under and gain leverage on him...in addition to his conditioning I hope the staff have worked extensively on his technique and fundamentals...staying low, exploding off the ball, not over penetrating because if he does he leaves a hole in the D and the RB or QB can run right by him...those are where he can make a difference...he was never going to be a sack or tackle machine...that's just simply not what a big gap clogging DL/NT does...if he can plug a gap and not lose ground, keep OL and blocking backs off the defensive play makers then he can make a difference...
He's a nose tackle, that isn't a stat filler position...he isn't the primary tackler or QB chaser...he is there to clog a gap and keep OL off of the LBs so they can make the plays...
what is just as important as losing weight and being in the best physical condition he can be in is all the small fundamental things such as technique, timing, understanding his role and the nuances of his position...
being so big, it is very easy for OL to get under and gain leverage on him...in addition to his conditioning I hope the staff have worked extensively on his technique and fundamentals...staying low, exploding off the ball, not over penetrating because if he does he leaves a hole in the D and the RB or QB can run right by him...those are where he can make a difference...he was never going to be a sack or tackle machine...that's just simply not what a big gap clogging DL/NT does...if he can plug a gap and not lose ground, keep OL and blocking backs off the defensive play makers then he can make a difference...
4 days ago:
Vaughts' Views @vaughtsviews Mar 4 Kentucky, USA
Matt Elam checking out Pro Day pic.twitter.com/ayhHjohF6U
Vaughts' Views @vaughtsviews Mar 4 Kentucky, USA
Matt Elam checking out Pro Day pic.twitter.com/ayhHjohF6U
If he gets his conditioning where it needs to be, he can be a force. When he gets tired, he stands up. When he stands up, he gets pancaked.
His gut looks noticeably flatter than his first year where his belly was way over his belt line....but he may have on bigger pants with larger belt line:smiley:
In all reality, I think Elam is doing just fine at UK. I thought he was very solid for a kid in his 2nd year at NT...and I think he'll be one of the top 7 SEC DT/NT at clogging up the middle run game next year. The kid is a huge asset IMO.
In all reality, I think Elam is doing just fine at UK. I thought he was very solid for a kid in his 2nd year at NT...and I think he'll be one of the top 7 SEC DT/NT at clogging up the middle run game next year. The kid is a huge asset IMO.
He should have red shirted his Freshmen year, too bad we did not have the luxury of doing so..
The "stand up" thing makes me chuckle. He's only been an underclassmen thus far.....which means his technique has been pretty much non-existent. And he's 6'7" going up against guys that are usually 2-5" shorter than he is. Of course he's going to get "stood up." And I would imagine that he still will get stood up a number of more times.
What does matter is:
-is he drawing double teams and thus freeing up a member of the front 7 to make the play
-is he disruptive to the point where the Interior OL can't open up gaping rushing lanes
If you're expecting a large number of tackles or sacks, you'll be disappointed. That's not his job.
If you're expecting someone to get massive penetration, you'll be disppointed. That's not his job.
Now granted it would be better if he does these things, but it doesn't mean he is playing poorly if he doesn't.
What does matter is:
-is he drawing double teams and thus freeing up a member of the front 7 to make the play
-is he disruptive to the point where the Interior OL can't open up gaping rushing lanes
If you're expecting a large number of tackles or sacks, you'll be disappointed. That's not his job.
If you're expecting someone to get massive penetration, you'll be disppointed. That's not his job.
Now granted it would be better if he does these things, but it doesn't mean he is playing poorly if he doesn't.
Couple of questions .. How long does it take a top recruit to get his technique "existent"?
IIRC seems that Clemson had 21 true or RS freshman play in the Championship game. I don't think they would be on the field if they didn't have technique. Being underclass men didn't seem to hinder them much.
Is "getting stood up" proper or acceptable technique for that position? If not how do big players on other teams execute and perform their jobs consistently?
He'll be a much better player this season and hopefully be a force for the remainder of his career, but I think proper technique has to be a big part of it.
When he gets tired, he plays high. When he plays high, he gets pancaked. Thats not just exclusive for him. Thats how it goes on the dline. If he gets in better condition, it solves most of his problems.
He does stand up and needs to work on that because he is less effective the higher he plays but to say he gets pancaked is an overexaggeration. He may lose push and even get pushed back some but rarely if ever gets pancaked. I watch him a lot when he's in and he is a load standing up or bending over but if ever learns to get leverage he'll be a rhino to handle.
Hes been pancaked plenty. Way more than someone weighing nearly 400 pounds should be. That said, it never happens till he plays high, which only happens when hes tired.
Short answer is it depends. In general linemen develop the slowest out of all the positions. Technique and usage of hands are something that most young linemen are not used to using. In most high schools linemen are just taught very rough assignments and technique.
In regards to the nose tackle, let's examine a "job well done scenario." The player will explode off the line, engage the C and/or G at arm's length.....if you allow them into your body, they will gain leverage (and probably hold you illegally). While holding off the OL, the NT will perform a "gap peek." (Basically he peers over the OL shoulder to determine where the rush is going, blocking assignment, pass, etc. once determined, he tries to disengage to make a play. His base should remain wide, hips and knees bent and athletic. Unfortunately when you lack technique you have two forces pushing against each other with the DL/OL.....the resultant force is up....and thus the perceived "standing up." You want your NT to be a very tough object to move. For instance if the offense is trying to rush up the middle over the OGs, they will try to push the DL out of position to open a running lane. Imagine if you have a beast of a NT that plugs that lane and doesn't move.....now there's no running lane up the middle. So what the OL does is use 2 OL to push the NT off. Now there's one less OL to block members of your front 7. The NT likely won't make the play on the ball, but just his nature has freed up others to do it.....thereby having an impact. Some of the best NTs in history will never make the NFL HOF due to lack of stats, but their impact is huge.
Now, what if Elam gets pushed off the ball a yd or two? Is this bad? Maybe, maybe not. What if he gets shoved by 2 OL and gets into the running lane but loses a yd in the process?....this actually isn't that bad as long as the rest of the front 7 do their job. If the LB slides up and holds the RB to only 2 yds, then it was a good job. If the LB misses the lane or arrives late and the RB rushes for 5-7 yds then it's not good. And to the lesser educated, it may appear that it's the NT fault for "getting pushed off the ball" when in reality it may not be.
In an ideal setting the NT will explode low and with such force that he will completely disrupt whatever the interior OL is trying to do. This is awesome and often will make highlight reels, but it's not the norm. Only rare guys like Haloti Ngata have been able to pull things off like this with regularity.
Now, as far as Clemson playing young guys. Or anyone playing young guys. Roughly half of every team are underclassmen....so, yeah playing youth happens a ton. But you have to take each situation in context. What position are they? In general a CB is likely going to do better earlier in his career than you average lineman. Who are they playing around? A true freshman OL playing in between two Seniors with a veteran QB may do quite well. A true freshman playing between two freshman and a poor QB will not. What are they being asked to do? Bama will often take one of their talented young guys are throw them out there is obvious passing downs just to provide fresh legs for an obvious pass rush. In this case their not asking the player to do anything extremely special they just want to use their athleticism and fresh legs. What kind of talent are we talking about? Bama and Clemson have 4 and 5 star recruits as back ups. These are guys who can either make up lack of technique with their elite athleticism or they may possess better technique out of HS than most other recruits.
If he can do all those things he will be an All American, SEC Player Of The Year, number one draft pick and All Pro for the next 15 years.
Mighty big "ifs" but I would love to see just some of that.
Anyone expecting Matt Elam to rack up tackles and stats doesn't know one iota about football.
The Nose Tackle in a 3-4 has two jobs:
1) Take on the double team
2) DON'T GET MOVED
If Elam isn't drawing 2 guys, the opponent has the advantage. This means we can't put a spy on the other QB and with our history of not stopping running QBs that is a knife to the jugular.
The getting moved part is more complicated. 1-2 yards backwards no biggie. 1-2 yards laterally= possible running lane. Getting moved "upwards" means OL has leverage, making it easier to move you backwards, laterally, or pancake you.
If Elam does those 2 things, he had perfomed his job. Anything else like tackles, forced fumbles, batted passes, etc. are gravy.
The Nose Tackle in a 3-4 has two jobs:
1) Take on the double team
2) DON'T GET MOVED
If Elam isn't drawing 2 guys, the opponent has the advantage. This means we can't put a spy on the other QB and with our history of not stopping running QBs that is a knife to the jugular.
The getting moved part is more complicated. 1-2 yards backwards no biggie. 1-2 yards laterally= possible running lane. Getting moved "upwards" means OL has leverage, making it easier to move you backwards, laterally, or pancake you.
If Elam does those 2 things, he had perfomed his job. Anything else like tackles, forced fumbles, batted passes, etc. are gravy.
Unfortunately, for most people Matt Elam's career is going to be a disappointment. They thought he was going to come in and be some kind of amazing game changer that gets sacks and completely stops the opposing team's running game with tackles in the backfield. They don't understand that his job is not to be one of those guys that makes the play, but instead to be one that allows the play to be made. He could be an All American and I think that many people would still find his results underwhelming because of their unrealistic expectations.
Jeez, what a large young man. Does he work out by bench-pressing local thoroughbred stallions? What do they go, around 1,000 lbs.
My only regret is I have but one like to give for this comment.
This is a big year for Elam. We need him to live up to his expectations and really provide an anchor in the middle of the line. As many have said, he doesn't have to make a ton of tackles but he needs to be very, very solid in the middle and do his job. If he's not playing the majority of the snaps this year (while healthy, of course) then it will be very easy to view him as a disappointment. My guess is he'll be improved. With better cardio and technique, he could be excellent. We need someone to clog up that middle and Big Matt has all the measurables to do so. Hopefully, he'll get it done.
I attend our games, and I pay lots of attention to our lines. But I have not seen Elam get pancaked. I think that's a bum rap. However, the rest of your statement might have some merit. Anyone who has watched Elam cannot deny he plays high. Maybe this is worsened when he gets tired, but it is mostly due to being a very tall man who has only had 2 years of college coaching and conditioning. When Elam got to Lexington, he was in the worst physical shape of any Kentucky football player since Myron Pryor and Ernie Pelayo came to town in 2004. He caught some criticism for lack of conditioning, rightly so at the time. But he is night and day better conditioned now. It's time to stop criticizing his conditioning. He has put in the work and dropped a lot of weight. You can see that in the photos. The issue now is technique, which must improve. His junior season should be better. Elam isn't a great player, but he is a good player with some upside and he is a better player than Pringle.
Thanks. Great explanation. I have a much better understanding.
Wish Matt the best this season. Hope we get to see this season what Saban saw in him when he recruited him.
Now, take note that I presented in general the technique of a NT. I didn't really get into Elam too much specifically.
IMO, he did ok. Last yr he wasn't poor, he wasn't great. I actually don't mind if he gets "stood up"......heck, 6'7" and #350 is very hard to throw/see over and around. Although, he must clog running lanes and be as immovable as possible. His conditioning definitely needs work......but understand that he may never be a true 3 down player. We may have to play him out of necessity, but it is very possible that during his collegiate career that he basically is just a run stuff specialist.
I can't say he'll be great......he may end up to be or he may not improve that much more from here on out. But I really do agree with Combakatz above. He may end up being a stellar NT at the college level, but due to the way he was recruited (being decently ranked and stealing from Bama) and fan ignorance, that he will still be seen as a disappointment.
Elam is on a good progression. He will be a load for centers and guards this year. If he can just give us a Lil more push on passing downs we are in good shape.
Matt has so much to do with little time to get there. He still need to continue to loose weight and get stronger. His arrival mentioned him to weigh around 400#s. I wish Matt had taken a red shirt that might have changed a lot. I still wish he would redshirt If not he must totally dedicate himself to lose another 20 to 30 pounds. With his frame he could hit the free weights and become much stronger than he presently is. No sense fighting about my post it's just my pinion! Matt now is the time to get ready to play on Sundays.
You'll have to find some highlights on YouTube before I'm buying that. Like the other poster I watch Matt exclusively a lot when he's on the field. When big Mel went down Matt improved every week.
I could probably count the number of times that I saw Matt get driven onto his back on one hand. Matt forced a lot of double teams and would get driven backwards but in terms of seeing a single Olineman pancaking Matt I don't remember seeing that happen so I know it didn't happen "plenty". He doesn't weigh 400 lbs either so you're showing a pattern of posting hyperbole
I agree. I have watched Elam closely for technique on a lot of snaps. He gets driven off the point of attack some by quicker offensive linemen who get under him and use leverage against him. He gets double teamed often. He gets knocked backward at times. But I haven't seen him actually get knocked backward off his feet more than a very few times. It is hard for a very tall man like Matt to play in the middle of the defensive line, and it requires excellent technique. He is still learning, but his physical conditioning has improved a lot.
Maybe we disagree on the definition of the word "plenty"? You all act like I said he was pancaked every play. The point being, when hes fresh and plays low, hes a force. When hes tired, he plays high, and he gets driven off the ball and/or pancaked. His conditioning is critical.
Nope. I just disagree with your opinion on Elam. Like I said, the reason he plays too high is because he is a very tall man who hasn't mastered the fundamentals of his position. He was in lousy physical shape in 2014, but no longer. He is a load, but he is still learning his craft. That's why blockers get under him. I go to all the home games, and I haven't seen him get pancaked.
Re-watch the games. Elam is very effective, and playing low, when hes fresh. Its natural for DL to start "standing up" when they get fatigued. Happens at every level.
I don't need to rewatch the films. I attend the games. What you are saying was actually true to a certain extent in 2014. It was less true in 2015, especially after Elam received more regular play after Lewis' injury. Elam's conditioning has improved by leaps and bounds over the last 2 years, but he is a very tall man who hasn't mastered his craft yet.