Maybe it is time to put Berry on the bench.
- Thread starter catcrazy
- Start date
Needed that win! Will NEED Ty for this team to have success but it’s tough out there for him right now.
Yes, this is worth trying as we are playing 4v5 on offense & often 3v5 when Matt is not in a position to dunk. The other possibility as was said in another thread is to start KJ and see if he can handle the moment.
We need to get Berry going. He has won us some games in the past with his shooting. Mullins just doesn't bring enough offensively. I like him better as a sixth man. Meanwhile, what's with Hunger? He can't finish around the rim. Nicholson is getting more minutes now that he can make some free throws ,but he needs some effective relief.
Hunger can't finish around the rim and is a real liability on defense. Looks like he just blanks out some times, and looks absolutely puzzled when his man slips behind him for a dunk.
Would like to see fitzsimmons get a few minutes instead of hunger. Hunger fouls way too much and is not bringing any offense.
Hunger is an absolute bum. Not sure he’s going to get any better. Ty on the other hand will be fine but yes I would start KJ to give us another ball handler.
It wasn’t there two years ago either. Precedent both ways and I hope it’s like last year.
But right now he needs to be benched. You can’t be 3 and D and suck at one let alone both.
Shooters keep shooting. We need him to get back to form. Ty has a lot of rust to shake off.
I got shouted down for saying this a few games ago. He still has the green light to shoot but as a spark plug not a starter.
I don’t actually think this will happen, but worth a shot at this point.
He looks like he's still not 100% recovered to me. Seems to be a bit stiff-legged as he tries to move laterally.
Bad idea. You can see after all these years that Ty has a tendency to lose his confidence when his shot doesn’t go. When he hits a few, he usually gains the confidence and NU is way better. Without him in there you are playing 3-5 on offense. Benching him won’t light a fire on him, he isn’t that type of player. He needs the carrot not the stick right now.
I’d much rather go with the carrot, but how long would you go before you switch to the stick?
I'm in total agreement with this. Ty hasn't regained the quick jumping ability that he had, but he contributes valuable experience defensively. I trust his positioning and quick hands. Offensively the best he can do is catch and shoot at this point, and this can be streaky.
Ok. I compared him to Robbie Beran on another thread, sure sounds like the same mentality. If a guy can’t handle being benched, that’s a problem.
Hard to say, I don’t know Ty at all. From the outside, he seems more fragile to that approach, if it was Big Matt, I would go to the stick quicker, but he has come around.
We don’t have Damian Lilliard on our pine. Who you playing and how long will it take before that player sucks?
It’s not unprecedented. He shot 29% from 3 over a whole season the year before he was injured.
He’s at 31% coming off an injury and we haven’t started conference play. He’s 1 for 12 against Dayton, Butler, and UNLV. I don’t think he’s going to shoot 57%(!) from the line for the rest of the season, but CCC has some decisions to make on his leash as the schedule will start to get a lot more challenging soon.
He’s at 31% coming off an injury and we haven’t started conference play. He’s 1 for 12 against Dayton, Butler, and UNLV. I don’t think he’s going to shoot 57%(!) from the line for the rest of the season, but CCC has some decisions to make on his leash as the schedule will start to get a lot more challenging soon.
Perhaps I'm a Collins apologist - but I'm gonna trust the dude who has coached him for 4 years and is with him at all the practices to defer on how to handle him.
As someone who used the "Collins apologist" phrase to challenge people's views a few years ago, I think thats not a thing anymore.
Although I am still completely opposed to the idea that coaches always knows what is right. They don't.
I wasn't arguing that coaches always know what is right. However, I'm willing to defer that in this case (and likely in the supermajority of cases) that Collins has more data and experience than I do to make a call on how to this particular player to get going.
By using "Collins apologist," I may have been anticipating a critique/pushback based on my previous witnessing of how this board works, which may not be present today. Point taken.
If we are going to win Big Ten games, we need Ty Berry back to what he was before the injury. CCC has always said shooters need to keep shooting. Berry hit two big second half 3s to help us hold off Montana State. If we had another 3-point marksman to replace him, okay, but KJ and Mullins have not shown that ability.
Honestly my impression is he's shooting too quickly, before he's fully set his feet and squared up to the basket. Ibsaw this problem with Audige and Langborg (his first few games only then he was aces). I think Berry is just too anxious to pull the trigger and needs to relax and let the game come to him a bit. The stroke still looks good and he's got the arc in his shots not the line drives from a couple years ago.
I've noticed this too. His passes are too slow and his shooting is too fast. Needs to get baby bear in there and make both just right.
I'm not saying Berry has the yips, but I think some shooters, when they're shooting well below they're capable of, start thinking about it too much. The best shooters don't think about it because the whole process is automatic (including the ball going on the hoop).
This team goes nowhere without Berry getting back to at least close to where he was. If Berry does that we can win more than we lose goin go forward. Sitting him to make a point would be a mistake.
Ty is a key piece to this team’s potential. Last year, when he was hitting his shots, he wasn’t just a shooter, he was a game-changer. He took this team from being a solid tournament squad to one that could compete with, and beat, anyone in the country. His three-point shooting opens everything up for Brooks, for Mart, for everyone. If Ty can get back to that rhythm, it raises the ceiling for this team in a major way.
Let’s not forget, he still plays good defense. Yeah, he's not moving as fluidly as he was last year, but his hands are quick. He’s disruptive on drives, active in the passing lanes. He’s got a ton of experience playing Big Ten basketball, and he’s not going to make the same freshman mistakes that some of the other guys might.
So, honestly, why would you want to bench a player like this, a player with this kind of upside? Why limit his opportunity to get back in the flow after missing an entire offseason? Giving him less time to find his rhythm isn’t the move. We need him to find that groove, and when/if he does, this team takes a huge step forward.
Let’s not forget, he still plays good defense. Yeah, he's not moving as fluidly as he was last year, but his hands are quick. He’s disruptive on drives, active in the passing lanes. He’s got a ton of experience playing Big Ten basketball, and he’s not going to make the same freshman mistakes that some of the other guys might.
So, honestly, why would you want to bench a player like this, a player with this kind of upside? Why limit his opportunity to get back in the flow after missing an entire offseason? Giving him less time to find his rhythm isn’t the move. We need him to find that groove, and when/if he does, this team takes a huge step forward.
If somebody wants to bench Ty Berry, they need to say who should be taking his minutes.
Collins doesn't have the luxury of saying "Ty sucks, I need to pick one of these other guys and make him the starter."
The real question is "Which player works best with Nicholson, Martinelli, Barnhizer and Leach?"
So far, its Ty Berry.
That group of 5 is up 101-62 in 4 games since Barnhizer's return (Butler, UNLV, Montana State and Pepperdine).
Thats an 84-52 pace over 40 minutes.
We don't have any solid basis on which to argue an alternative.
Could you just plug Windham in for Berry?
So far, that group has only played 2 minutes and 32 seconds together, scoring 4 points, allowing 2.
How about Mullins for Berry?
So far that group has played 3:38 together without scoring a point... allowing 7.
Ciaravino for Berry?
2:31 of game time, scored 5, allowed 7.
Collins needs to find a lineup that works when Hunger is in the game.
Personally, I'd like to see Hunger/Martinelli/Barnhizer/Mullins/Windham.
Collins doesn't have the luxury of saying "Ty sucks, I need to pick one of these other guys and make him the starter."
The real question is "Which player works best with Nicholson, Martinelli, Barnhizer and Leach?"
So far, its Ty Berry.
That group of 5 is up 101-62 in 4 games since Barnhizer's return (Butler, UNLV, Montana State and Pepperdine).
Thats an 84-52 pace over 40 minutes.
We don't have any solid basis on which to argue an alternative.
Could you just plug Windham in for Berry?
So far, that group has only played 2 minutes and 32 seconds together, scoring 4 points, allowing 2.
How about Mullins for Berry?
So far that group has played 3:38 together without scoring a point... allowing 7.
Ciaravino for Berry?
2:31 of game time, scored 5, allowed 7.
Collins needs to find a lineup that works when Hunger is in the game.
Personally, I'd like to see Hunger/Martinelli/Barnhizer/Mullins/Windham.
I was hoping the EIU game was an introduction to Berry of what I'll call the Bill Cartwright treatment.
In Cartwright's last couple years with the Bulls, he always started. It was a bit of a nod to his experience and professionalism. He'd get several opportunities , especially early in games. If he wasn't going well, he'd never see the light of day in the 4th quarter.
I'd keep starting Berry, especially against lesser team. He deserves the respect for his dedication to the program. But if those shots don't start dropping by Jan 1, give him the Cartwright treatment.
In Cartwright's last couple years with the Bulls, he always started. It was a bit of a nod to his experience and professionalism. He'd get several opportunities , especially early in games. If he wasn't going well, he'd never see the light of day in the 4th quarter.
I'd keep starting Berry, especially against lesser team. He deserves the respect for his dedication to the program. But if those shots don't start dropping by Jan 1, give him the Cartwright treatment.
Sometimes putting a guy like Ty on the bench is not even just about having a more productive guy on the floor. It is about attempting to jolt him. Some players react well to it, less focus on the other team having a gameplan for them, etc. He could even end up playing the same or more minutes than as a starter. But ultimately we don't know him personally well enough to have much of an educated opinion.
Just like I wonder if KF should have minutes as Hunger is being so horrendous. I know the horrendous part is true, but I have nothing to go by with KF.
Just like I wonder if KF should have minutes as Hunger is being so horrendous. I know the horrendous part is true, but I have nothing to go by with KF.
After one of his threes I shouted "TY BERRY IS BACK BABY," and three seconds later Bardo said "Man, Ty Berry is BACK."
HE'S BACK.
HE'S BACK.