Maybe it's not the scandal

[5timestheking]

http://www.nbadraft.net/nike-basketball-academy-ncaa-prospects


Justin Jackson 6'8.5 200 SF North Carolina So. (6'10 wingspan)

Jackson had a solid showing. He makes good decisions with the ball and plays under control. He showed an improving jumper from right baseline 3. He's sort of a jack of all trades type who doesn't really stand out in any one area. He's got a strange physique with hunched shoulders, and solid but not incredible length. Scouts at the event criticized UNC's ability to develop players for the next level, so it will be interesting to see how Jackson's game improves this season. While he appears to have a positive, team first attitude, he seems to be lacking the swagger to be a star.

 

[dbav]

I've always thought that UNCheat has an ability to do less with more. I really started to believe that with the Tokoto comments when he left. But there have not been too many players who have really developed into superstars under Roy in my opinion.

 

[DukeDenver]

PJ Hairstoned is shooting 29% from the floor in the summer league. If you ask me, he's primed for a breakout year.

 

[skysdad]

PJ Hairstoned is shooting 29% from the floor in the summer league. If you ask me, he's primed for a breakout year.

Will be an all-star this year averaging 25 plus. Gerald Henderson got on his nerves last year because he was a Dukie. With that problem squashed Hairston will become what Jordan drafted him for. He is on the road to become one of the top 50 NBA players of all time. He will be to Charlotte what Jordan was to Chicago. OFC

 

[5timestheking]

Over the last 10 years who hasn't been a bust in the NBA besides Lawson and Barnes... and even Barnes greatly underachieved at UNC based on expectation. Yes, expectations were lofty, but the kid never really got better under Roy and his "system".

 

[2004Audi]

6/18/15 PJ cited for driving with revoked license, speeding, and driving left of center with expired tags. i would say pj is fitting in just fine with roy and his system.

 

[Crank_it_loud]

PJ Hornswagle - MVP this year.

 

[timo0402]

Even knowledgeable UNC fans will tell you that Roy is a system coach. he's not a developer of players, but he's a guy who tries to find players that fit his system. Nothing wrong with that, however, if in today's recruiting world, you're going to have a really tough time getting the top tier 1& done guys with that pitch- b/c they see that, and they more importantly hear it from competing schools, coaches and handlers/parents.

 

[5timestheking]

Even knowledgeable UNC fans will tell you that Roy is a system coach. he's not a developer of players, but he's a guy who tries to find players that fit his system. Nothing wrong with that, however, if in today's recruiting world, you're going to have a really tough time getting the top tier 1& done guys with that pitch- b/c they see that, and they more importantly hear it from competing schools, coaches and handlers/parents.

If you're a recruit, why would you want to play in a system that does the same exact thing down the floor every time? Roy still plays a 1960s style of basketball where he has definitive positions when high school kids are becoming more and more versatile. While Roy is a good coach, his system has certainly jumped the shark.

 

[gottagonow]

Will be an all-star this year averaging 25 plus. Gerald Henderson got on his nerves last year because he was a Dukie. With that problem squashed Hairston will become what Jordan drafted him for. He is on the road to become one of the top 550 NBA players of all time. He will be to Charlotte what Jordan was to Chicago. OFC

Sky you are so funny, or I mean your post are. As soon as I read "Will be an all-star averaging 25 plus I knew it was from you without seeing your name. Keep that attack going my man.

 

[DevilDJ]

That's a brutal commentary on Roy and , yes , it ain't just the scandal keepin' kids away from unx. Roy's won a lotta games but has never been known as a developer of talent. As stated earlier , he's a system coach and without the absolute cream of the crop , he's very ordinary. That "system" also requires kids to stay until ROY decides they're ready to go. That's being used against 'im and is damaging unx's recruiting as much if not more than any fallout from the scandal. Personally , I hope he stays at unx for another fifty years.

 

[skysdad]

HOF Coach Roy Williams is a daggum legend daggumit. OFC

 

[Dattier]

The Dexter Strickland quip about hoping Kyrie was allowed to be Kyrie under K represented a turning point for me. There had long been this rumor out there that K didn't develop players and Roy did, and it was used against Duke in recruiting. I don't remember the exact timeline, but 2010 was definitely a unique, alarmingly unathletic Duke team compared to some of K's more heralded squads, and they stand as testament to K's adaptability and genius. Then Kyrie comes in and 2 accomplished seniors support giving him the reins. Then he is injured, and Nolan Smith becomes an All-American. Meanwhile Roy has #1 recruit and preseason AA Harrison Barnes returning for a 2nd year, is playing guys out of position b/c of his rigid system, and stumbling into the NIT.

The contrast between the make-up of the 2010 title team and the 2015 title team is probably the best snapshot evidencing K's willingness to change styles to fit personnel.

The prevailing narrative now is definitely that K lets players play, and that Roy stifles them.

 

[timo0402]

The Dexter Strickland quip about hoping Kyrie was allowed to be Kyrie under K represented a turning point for me. There had long been this rumor out there that K didn't develop players and Roy did, and it was used against Duke in recruiting. I don't remember the exact timeline, but 2010 was definitely a unique, alarmingly unathletic Duke team compared to some of K's more heralded squads, and they stand as testament to K's adaptability and genius. Then Kyrie comes in and 2 accomplished seniors support giving him the reins. Then he is injured, and Nolan Smith becomes an All-American. Meanwhile Roy has #1 recruit and preseason AA Harrison Barnes returning for a 2nd year, is playing guys out of position b/c of his rigid system, and stumbling into the NIT.

The contrast between the make-up of the 2010 title team and the 2015 title team is probably the best snapshot evidencing K's willingness to change styles to fit personnel.

The prevailing narrative now is definitely that K lets players play, and that Roy stifles them.

Excellent. IMO Kyrie changed the recruiting scene for Duke. When he signed and showed his immense talent in our free spacing offense, others quickly followed- Austin, Jabari, Tyus & Co. etc.

 

[5timestheking]

Excellent. IMO Kyrie changed the recruiting scene for Duke. When he signed and showed his immense talent in our free spacing offense, others quickly followed- Austin, Jabari, Tyus & Co. etc.

Irving may have started the turn around, but Tyus, Jah, and Winslow are sending it to a whole other level.

 

[timo0402]

Irving may have started the turn around, but Tyus, Jah, and Winslow are sending it to a whole other level.

can't argue that.

 

[Dattier]

I would put in a plug for Nolan as a pretty crucial recruiting bump. He was athletic, had legacy, had some street cred, and was incredibly likable. He may have helped land Kyrie and he definitely helped showcase him by being selfless. He helped w/ Tyler Thornton and Quinn, too. More, he struggled for a couple years, persevered, and became a champion.

 

[timo0402]

I would put in a plug for Nolan as a pretty crucial recruiting bump. He was athletic, had legacy, had some street cred, and was incredibly likable. He may have helped land Kyrie and he definitely helped showcase him by being selfless. He helped w/ Tyler Thornton and Quinn, too. More, he struggled for a couple years, persevered, and became a champion.

Nolan certainly helped us in getting some recruits, making Duke "cool/hip" again. Kyrie was that bonafide superstar though, the guy that was the trendsetter for those types of OAD kids who wanted to be a part of Duke and something bigger than themselves for a year. From then on, these kids started putting their faith and TRUST in K, and i'd say its worked out pretty well for them.

 

[stanleyduke]

Agree on Roy, but the system can be a great showcase for certain players. I think it showcases well a speedy guard who wants to run the offense (like a Lawson), a big man who runs the floor and if they ever got a wing who can shoot in transition (like Ellington/Green), the shots are there.

 

[Dattier]

Agree on Roy, but the system can be a great showcase for certain players. I think it showcases well a speedy guard who wants to run the offense (like a Lawson), a big man who runs the floor and if they ever got a wing who can shoot in transition (like Ellington/Green), the shots are there.

No doubt Roy is a great coach. He has far more often willed his team into the mold than knocked himself unconscious against a brick wall like he did in '10.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Over the last 10 years who hasn't been a bust in the NBA besides Lawson and Barnes... and even Barnes greatly underachieved at UNC based on expectation. Yes, expectations were lofty, but the kid never really got better under Roy and his "system".

While some of these criticisms are fair, let's not get carried away. Roy's players may not be stars but there are plenty doing OK in the NBA (and others playing for pay elsewhere). In addition to the already-mentioned Barnes and Lawson we have:

Danny Green
Brandan Wright
Tyler Zeller
Raymond Felton
Wayne Ellington
Marvin Williams
Reggie Bullock
Ed Davis

...and probably others who aren't coming to mind. Heck, even McAdoo has a championship ring.

A decade ago Roy's approach was working well. He'd get a decent number of high-ranked players but very few who were OAD material. But they would stick around a few years and things worked out. His system seems to bring the best out of players along about their junior year. These days no kid who thinks he's really good wants that approach. Even if he recognizes that he may not be OAD, he wants a program where he CAN be OAD. And that hasn't happened for a while at UNC. So unless Roy can land a really good 2016 class, he's going to have to change. And THAT'S where I think K has the clear advantage. Change. K seems much quicker and better at adjusting to change - including to the world of OADs and pro sets - than Roy.

 

[5timestheking]

While some of these criticisms are fair, let's not get carried away. Roy's players may not be stars but there are plenty doing OK in the NBA (and others playing for pay elsewhere). In addition to the already-mentioned Barnes and Lawson we have:

Danny Green
Brandan Wright
Tyler Zeller
Raymond Felton
Wayne Ellington
Marvin Williams
Reggie Bullock
Ed Davis

...and probably others who aren't coming to mind. Heck, even McAdoo has a championship ring.

A decade ago Roy's approach was working well. He'd get a decent number of high-ranked players but very few who were OAD material. But they would stick around a few years and things worked out. His system seems to bring the best out of players along about their junior year. These days no kid who thinks he's really good wants that approach. Even if he recognizes that he may not be OAD, he wants a program where he CAN be OAD. And that hasn't happened for a while at UNC. So unless Roy can land a really good 2016 class, he's going to have to change. And THAT'S where I think K has the clear advantage. Change. K seems much quicker and better at adjusting to change - including to the world of OADs and pro sets - than Roy.

You can't be serious with that list. You essentially proved my point for me. You listed a bunch of journeymen players who underachieved compared to their draft expectations, with the exception of Green who was an anomaly

 

[DevilDJ]

Green is a one-trick pony. Leave 'im open , he can shoot. Miami shut 'im down in the Finals awhile back by simply putting a body on 'im. He's a role player. Don't get me wrong. There's nuthin' wrong with being a role player AND , as I said , Danny can shoot. But I'm sick of unx fans judging Duke pros against their MJ's and Worthy's. Had Green gone to Duke , unx fans would be unimpressed. Jus' sayin.' Branden Wright is a straight up bust. Took 'im forever just to become serviceable player. The 8th pick in the 1st round should have better numbers than 7 & 3 for a career. That's CAREER , mind you. Only averaged over 20 minutes once in his career. Bust. Ellington's a shooter. Averages 7 per for a career. Honestly , I don't know what most teams get outta first round picks chosen 28th but given that his strength is puttin' the ball in the hoop , 7 points a game ain't much. Is he a bust at 28? Again , I'd have to compare 'im to other 28th picks. Safe to say he's no great shakes regardless. I hate 'im because he hit that dagger vs Clemson at the Nose Dome when it looked like the Tigers might finally win one there. On the other hand , the shady info that leaked out about his family's house was amusing. Great for takin' internet jabs at unx fans. Marvin? Had some decent years. 10 points a game for career. But he was the second pick. SECOND! Another role player but do teams use the 2nd overall pick to get such players? Could make the argument that he's a bust given draft status. Zeller's a role player. Seems like a good kid and is doing ok in Boston. Still...role player. Keep in mind , this was Roy's M.O. at KU too. Paul Pierce was awesome. Heinrich was nice. Lotsa role players and flat-out stiffs after that. Anyway , on to Felton. Something of a journeyman but had superstar numbers compared to the others. Some nice seasons. He's done now though. Bullock sucks and he had to pry himself away from Roy ala Tokoto. Davis...13th pick first round. Get ready for it...here it comes...role player. Averages just over 20 minutes a game , career-wise. If these were Duke guys , unx'ers would be laughin' at us. And enough with the "So-and-so has a ring" crap!" JMM doesn't even play 10 minutes a game. His contributions to GS's "ring" are negligible. At best. Everytime unx is surpassed in some perceived area of superiority , their fans move the goalposts. "We own the NBA." Not anymore. "Well , our guys have rings." WGAF? Call me crazy but I prefer Duke's guys win 'em , ya know , while they're actually AT Duke. Duke is the pipeline to the NBA. "Who cares? We don't even watch the NBA anyway." #carolinaway

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Green is a one-trick pony. Leave 'im open , he can shoot. Miami shut 'im down in the Finals awhile back by simply putting a body on 'im. He's a role player. Don't get me wrong. There's nuthin' wrong with being a role player AND , as I said , Danny can shoot. But I'm sick of unx fans judging Duke pros against their MJ's and Worthy's. Had Green gone to Duke , unx fans would be unimpressed. Jus' sayin.' Branden Wright is a straight up bust. Took 'im forever just to become serviceable player. The 8th pick in the 1st round should have better numbers than 7 & 3 for a career. That's CAREER , mind you. Only averaged over 20 minutes once in his career. Bust. Ellington's a shooter. Averages 7 per for a career. Honestly , I don't know what most teams get outta first round picks chosen 28th but given that his strength is puttin' the ball in the hoop , 7 points a game ain't much. Is he a bust at 28? Again , I'd have to compare 'im to other 28th picks. Safe to say he's no great shakes regardless. I hate 'im because he hit that dagger vs Clemson at the Nose Dome when it looked like the Tigers might finally win one there. On the other hand , the shady info that leaked out about his family's house was amusing. Great for takin' internet jabs at unx fans. Marvin? Had some decent years. 10 points a game for career. But he was the second pick. SECOND! Another role player but do teams use the 2nd overall pick to get such players? Could make the argument that he's a bust given draft status. Zeller's a role player. Seems like a good kid and is doing ok in Boston. Still...role player. Keep in mind , this was Roy's M.O. at KU too. Paul Pierce was awesome. Heinrich was nice. Lotsa role players and flat-out stiffs after that. Anyway , on to Felton. Something of a journeyman but had superstar numbers compared to the others. Some nice seasons. He's done now though. Bullock sucks and he had to pry himself away from Roy ala Tokoto. Davis...13th pick first round. Get ready for it...here it comes...role player. Averages just over 20 minutes a game , career-wise. If these were Duke guys , unx'ers would be laughin' at us. And enough with the "So-and-so has a ring" crap!" JMM doesn't even play 10 minutes a game. His contributions to GS's "ring" are negligible. At best. Everytime unx is surpassed in some perceived area of superiority , their fans move the goalposts. "We own the NBA." Not anymore. "Well , our guys have rings." WGAF? Call me crazy but I prefer Duke's guys win 'em , ya know , while they're actually AT Duke. Duke is the pipeline to the NBA. "Who cares? We don't even watch the NBA anyway." #carolinaway

You guys ae working WAY too hard.

The claim was made that except for Barnes and Lawson all UNC players in the last 10 years have been busts.

Own it. It's embarrassing that you feel the need to change the conversation so you don't have to admit that was wrong.

 

[5timestheking]

You guys ae working WAY too hard.

The claim was made that except for Barnes and Lawson all UNC players in the last 10 years have been busts.

Own it. It's embarrassing that you feel the need to change the conversation so you don't have to admit that was wrong.

The original claim still holds true. Other than Barnes and Lawson, Carolina has produced journeymen underachieved over the past decade.

 

[5timestheking]

None of them had a better career than Kwame Brown... Let that sink in

 

[Laettner]

Heels are clearly in a rut, they have veteran squad and if next season is not success(Final Four), I could see Roy retiring. He's looked worn out past few years.

 

[QC Dukie]

Roy wouldn't have taken our team last year to the final four.

OFC

 

[5timestheking]

Roy wouldn't have taken our team last year to the final four.

OFC

Completely agree. Roy would not have been able to get them to play defense that way K did and cover up Jah's defensive deficiencies

 

[DevilDJ]

Own it. It's embarrassing that you feel the need to change the conversation so you don't have to admit that was wrong.

And who would know more about what's "embarrassing" than a unx fan? They've had a ton of "embarrassing" the last 4+ years. Lulz. Anyway...


Warriors' McAdoo wouldn't change a thing about rookie season

Warriors forward James Michael McAdoo recalled the heartbreak one year ago when he went undrafted after having left North carolina following his junior season.

"I remember going to bed that night and my wife just crying her eyes out," McAdoo said Thursday on the eve of the team's first NBA Summer League game against the Cleveland Cavaliers.

He said he didn't regret staying in school, where he met his wife, Lauren, but admittedly was disappointed in his sophomore and junior seasons as his development slowed.

http://www.times-standard.com/sport...oo-wouldnt-change-a-thing-about-rookie-season

 

[Dattier]

While some of these criticisms are fair, let's not get carried away. Roy's players may not be stars but there are plenty doing OK in the NBA (and others playing for pay elsewhere). In addition to the already-mentioned Barnes and Lawson we have:

Danny Green
Brandan Wright
Tyler Zeller
Raymond Felton
Wayne Ellington
Marvin Williams
Reggie Bullock
Ed Davis

...and probably others who aren't coming to mind. Heck, even McAdoo has a championship ring.

A decade ago Roy's approach was working well. He'd get a decent number of high-ranked players but very few who were OAD material. But they would stick around a few years and things worked out. His system seems to bring the best out of players along about their junior year. These days no kid who thinks he's really good wants that approach. Even if he recognizes that he may not be OAD, he wants a program where he CAN be OAD. And that hasn't happened for a while at UNC. So unless Roy can land a really good 2016 class, he's going to have to change. And THAT'S where I think K has the clear advantage. Change. K seems much quicker and better at adjusting to change - including to the world of OADs and pro sets - than Roy.

While the ring counts toward UNC alum's total championship rings, let's not pretend McAdoo's ring really says anything positive about his NBA play so far. He was in the NBDL most of the year. He played in 15 reg season games and 5 postseason games, a total of 10 minutes in the postseason.

Green has been ripped as a one-dimensional player, but to his credit, he wasn't really expected to be much in the NBA anyway, and he contributed as a role player on a championship Spurs team.

Too soon to tell on some of those guys, but I think it'd be fair to say Williams, Felton, and Wright have underperformed relative to their draft position. And of course, the guys you're conceding like May, McCants, and guys who never even got a sniff after projecting that way out of hs still count overall.

 

[skysdad]

While the ring counts toward UNC alum's total championship rings, let's not pretend McAdoo's ring really says anything positive about his NBA play so far. He was in the NBDL most of the year. He played in 15 reg season games and 5 postseason games, a total of 10 minutes in the postseason.

Green has been ripped as a one-dimensional player, but to his credit, he wasn't really expected to be much in the NBA anyway, and he contributed as a role player on a championship Spurs team.

Too soon to tell on some of those guys, but I think it'd be fair to say Williams, Felton, and Wright have underperformed relative to their draft position. And of course, the guys you're conceding like May, McCants, and guys who never even got a sniff after projecting that way out of hs still count overall.

Does this mean that these guys won't ever be one of the top 50 NBA players of all time. OFC

 

[Dattier]

Does this mean that these guys won't ever be one of the top 50 NBA players of all time. OFC

Only because in their minds, they beat themselves.