Mooney - week 2

[haywood jahblowme]

so Mooney has graduated, visited schools, and is cleaning out his stuff (shoes on twitter)

hopefully this week we hear good news for NU! i really do think its the best fit for him - and hopefully he sees all the benefits of coming to NU

 

[Deeringfish]

so Mooney has graduated, visited schools, and is cleaning out his stuff (shoes on twitter)

hopefully this week we hear good news for NU! i really do think its the best fit for him - and hopefully he sees all the benefits of coming to NU

It would be an exciting season with him on board and a great teaching/ learning opportunity for our excellent freshman class.

 

[gradeck]

If they land Mooney, is it likely that the starting lineup would include all 3 transfers?

Mooney, Taylor, Turner, Law, Pardon (?)

 

[haywood jahblowme]

If they land Mooney, is it likely that the starting lineup would include all 3 transfers?

Mooney, Taylor, Turner, Law, Pardon (?)

mooney and taylor for sure...turner has a shot but the spot is wide open

 

[Sec_112]

My absolutely, cheap theory with no knowledge of anything ... The long process is a good sign for NU. Mooney's going through some BS with admissions.

 

[gradeck]

Second follow-up: if Mooney does come, is there any chance they’d consider redshirting a second freshman? (Presuming it’s a decent chance Young does a RS regardless)

 

[Cat Fan in Buckeye Land]

Hoping to see white smoke coming out of Welsh-Ryan Arena, indicating a favorable decision.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

Second follow-up: if Mooney does come, is there any chance they’d consider redshirting a second freshman? (Presuming it’s a decent chance Young does a RS regardless)

Would be nice to be able to use a shirt on Kopp. I think Nance is starting by B1G season.

 

[DaCat]

Second follow-up: if Mooney does come, is there any chance they’d consider redshirting a second freshman? (Presuming it’s a decent chance Young does a RS regardless)

Would be nice to be able to use a shirt on Kopp. I think Nance is starting by B1G season.

It seems Kopp is more B1G-ready than Nance at this point, and I doubt neither redshirts.

 

[Katatonic]

^ Agree, if anything, Kopp is more skilled at this juncture.

 

[rwhitney014]

Hoping to see white smoke coming out of Welsh-Ryan Arena, indicating a favorable decision.

Given that it's still under construction, I'm not sure that would be a sign of anything favorable.

 

[CaliforniaCat_rivals209738]

Given that it's still under construction, I'm not sure that would be a sign of anything favorable.

Got a real kick out of this. My kind of humor. Thanks.

 

[rwhitney014]

Got a real kick out of this. My kind of humor. Thanks.

Happy to help.

 

[freewillie07]

Would be nice to be able to use a shirt on Kopp. I think Nance is starting by B1G season.

Amazing. NU is finally on the brink of having a full roster of quality scholarship players who are all immediately eligible, and the first thing that comes to people’s minds is TWO REDSHIRTS?

Don’t be scared of depth!!! It’s nice, I promise!

 

[PURPLECAT88]

Amazing. NU is finally on the brink of having a full roster of quality scholarship players who are all immediately eligible, and the first thing that comes to people’s minds is TWO REDSHIRTS?

Don’t be scared of depth!!! It’s nice, I promise!

Plus, guys get injured. Lumpkin, Law, Falzon, Rap, etc. Let's save the redshirt until we need it.

 

[Medill90]

It's a great situation to allow ryan to red shirt a year and then he should get some meaningful PT the year after.

I don't see the other three frosh redshirting. To do what Collins wants to do this year and next, they have to play this year.

 

[gradeck]

Amazing. NU is finally on the brink of having a full roster of quality scholarship players who are all immediately eligible, and the first thing that comes to people’s minds is TWO REDSHIRTS?

The first thing that came to my mind was how they’re going to finish as the Big Ten regular season champions.

I’d love to have a 12+ man rotation, of course. The opportunity for meaningful insight is why the question was asked.

 

[JournCat]

Texas Tech's depth last year was incredible. It felt like they had eight guys who could shoot and defend with length. Just wave after wave. I wasn't even mad when that game ended ... I was impressed. Anyway, it'd be great to have a bench that could swing games consistently and lower the minutes of our starters.

 

[freewillie07]

The first thing that came to my mind was how they’re going to finish as the Big Ten regular season champions.

I’d love to have a 12+ man rotation, of course. The opportunity for meaningful insight is why the question was asked.

First thing’s first: Get Mooney.

I think Ryan Young will redshirt, barring injury to Pardon/Benson. Just don’t see how he’d get any minutes with those two in front of him, and he’d benefit from a year under Coach James.

Zero reason to expect any of the others to redshirt. All three will probably start as sophomores, so they need game experience ASAP.

 

[NJCat]

I think Ryan Young will redshirt, barring injury to Pardon/Benson. Just don’t see how he’d get any minutes with those two in front of him, and he’d benefit from a year under Coach James.

I agree.

Cue Willy on playing with a 12 scholarship active roster now.....

 

[willycat]

I agree.

Cue Willy on playing with a 12 scholarship active roster now.....

The redshirt guy could just sit on the bench in warm-ups and if needed rip them off, ala Superman and have the NU uni appear!

 

[xxxbobxxx]

I agree.

Cue Willy on playing with a 12 scholarship active roster now.....

Can anyone cite a rotation longer than 10 from any successful program - college or pro? Depth is great - up to the first 9 or 10. Then, only after injury or blowout, do the others come to play. Let's assume Mooney signs and Law is healthy, throw up some rotation expectations - you get 200 minutes. Here is mine and why I could see Kopp take a shirt in the perfect world.

(avg mpg)
LG - Lathon (23) then Mooney (25)
OG - Mooney then Taylor (25)
W - Law (25) then Turner (22)
S4 - Nance (23) then Falzon (17)
C - Pardon (26) then Benson (14)

You still have Gaines and Ash coming off the bench even if you shirt Kopp and Young. And you have pretty great depth. Plus, you get a bigger, stronger Kopp and add to the future depth of the program. But, say Law is not able to play to start the season, if Kopp is far better than Gaines, then Kopp slides into the rotation and burns a shirt. Or if Mooney goes elsewhere, same deal. I am saying that I would not waste a year of eligibility on garbage time.

But the reality is that we always endure one big injury, at a minimum. I still suspect Law may not play next Fall. And depending who gets bit by the injury bug will determine who burns a shirt - just like Pardon.

 

[freewillie07]

Joe Cremo just committed to Villanova. One of the other top transfers on the market, and also a Creighton target, like Mooney.

If Cremo committed to Creighton, you’d think that probably would have eliminated them from Mooney’s list. Then again, if Mooney was that concerned about losing that spot, maybe he would have already committed.

Who knows. Just waiting...

 

[GOUNUII]

Can anyone cite a rotation longer than 10 from any successful program - college or pro? Depth is great - up to the first 9 or 10. Then, only after injury or blowout, do the others come to play. Let's assume Mooney signs and Law is healthy, throw up some rotation expectations - you get 200 minutes. Here is mine and why I could see Kopp take a shirt in the perfect world.

(avg mpg)
LG - Lathon (23) then Mooney (25)
OG - Mooney then Taylor (25)
W - Law (25) then Turner (22)
S4 - Nance (23) then Falzon (17)
C - Pardon (26) then Benson (14)

You still have Gaines and Ash coming off the bench even if you shirt Kopp and Young. And you have pretty great depth. Plus, you get a bigger, stronger Kopp and add to the future depth of the program. But, say Law is not able to play to start the season, if Kopp is far better than Gaines, then Kopp slides into the rotation and burns a shirt. Or if Mooney goes elsewhere, same deal. I am saying that I would not waste a year of eligibility on garbage time.

But the reality is that we always endure one big injury, at a minimum. I still suspect Law may not play next Fall. And depending who gets bit by the injury bug will determine who burns a shirt - just like Pardon.

I like this one better.
Pardon-Benson-RS Young
Falzon-Kopp-RS Nance
Law-Gaines
Taylor-Turner
Mooney-Lathon-Ash

Neither Kopp or Nance are going to be great rebounders as true freshmen. So I’m going with the stronger one with a better offensive game to get minutes at the stretch 4. Gaines at the W3 makes perfect sense to me. Call him a 3rd guard if you want. His game is much better suited inside the arc with 2or3 legit 3pt shooters also on the floor. Taylor did not sign to play behind anybody. Turner better suited to the WG position. Better temperament for coming off the bench. None of this accounts for going with a 3 guard lineup if Law takes a breather. I think we’ll see more of that this year, especially if Mooney signs.

Not concerned about minute allocations. This is all speculative enough without going that far into the weeds.

Hope I am wrong about Nance. Maybe playing a lot of zone defense will help him get more minutes.

GOUNUII

 

[hdhntr1]

If they land Mooney, is it likely that the starting lineup would include all 3 transfers?

Mooney, Taylor, Turner, Law, Pardon (?)

I see Lathon getting a lot of time. Maybe as a 1 or 1A. But they might have to basically guarantee starter position to get Mooney and Taylor

 

[chicagocatfan24]

Would be nice to be able to use a shirt on Kopp. I think Nance is starting by B1G season.

From what I was told Kopp is gonna be a "star" and contribute significantly this year

 

[PURPLECAT88]

The redshirt guy could just sit on the bench in warm-ups and if needed rip them off, ala Superman and have the NU uni appear!

Like Pardon in the Nebraska game.

 

[lunker35]

I like this one better.
Pardon-Benson-RS Young
Falzon-Kopp-RS Nance
Law-Gaines
Taylor-Turner
Mooney-Lathon-Ash

Neither Kopp or Nance are going to be great rebounders as true freshmen. So I’m going with the stronger one with a better offensive game to get minutes at the stretch 4. Gaines at the W3 makes perfect sense to me. Call him a 3rd guard if you want. His game is much better suited inside the arc with 2or3 legit 3pt shooters also on the floor. Taylor did not sign to play behind anybody. Turner better suited to the WG position. Better temperament for coming off the bench. None of this accounts for going with a 3 guard lineup if Law takes a breather. I think we’ll see more of that this year, especially if Mooney signs.

Not concerned about minute allocations. This is all speculative enough without going that far into the weeds.

Hope I am wrong about Nance. Maybe playing a lot of zone defense will help him get more minutes.

GOUNUII

If Nance takes a non-injury redshirt I’ll jump in Lake Michigan next January. Not a chance in the world that happens. He’s 6’10” and long. He will be fine rebounding.

 

[Sec_112]

In the history of the modern game, has there ever been a consensus top-100 player who took a non-injury red shirt on a team coming off a second-division finish?

 

[Max_Power]

If Nance and Kopp red-shirt Collins will never land a top recruit again. Your top 75, come to NU where we've made the tourney one time and sit on the bench while I play Jordan Ash at the three so you don't get any game experience. UGH. You people .... think!

 

[Max_Power]

In the history of the modern game, has there ever been a consensus top-100 player who took a non-injury red shirt on a team coming off a second-division finish?

Let alone 2. It's almost painful to read this board between the ongoing petty poster grievances and the disconnect from how it really works. The idea here is to create a pool of talent and recruit over that talent every year. Ideally, Nance is so good he forces Pardon to the bench by the Big10 season because he's averaging 20 and 10. Not likely but that is what is supposed to happen. Can you imagine Collins telling Larry Nance that he's red shirting his son to get Falzon minutes. Jesus. You don't want to have to play the kids but at the same time you recruit them to be stars from day one. If you non-injury redshirt a top 75 player coming off a second-division finish you are buying a transfer.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

If Nance and Kopp red-shirt Collins will never land a top recruit again. Your top 75, come to NU where we've made the tourney one time and sit on the bench while I play Jordan Ash at the three so you don't get any game experience. UGH. You people .... think!

In my defense, I don't have Jordan in but for garbage time - and using Kopp for garbage time would be a bigger insult than redshirting, IMHO. In event of injury, shirts get burnt. But more to the other point no one wants to discuss, who plays? You cannot have a regular 11 man rotation. Anyone who thinks so needs to watch some basketball. Ten is a stretch, 8 and 9 are the common rotations. So, assuming a healthy Law and Mooney signs, then who ya got? Can't go more than ten. I could see swapping out Falzon for Kopp - but it means we play small a bunch, or slide Benson into the 4 at times. But that doesn't help the crowded 1,2,3 slots.

At 6'7", 210 - Kopp will get pushed around trying defend other 4's, even of the stretch variety. And will not shoot over anyone. Kopp is a wing, as is Law (he is not a S4, round peg meet square hole ala Brown is not a PG). Mooney, Taylor, Turner - all are SG/SFs.

I suppose it could be done but - if you promised PT to Mooney and Taylor, then (under Max's theory) doesn't any of the Fab 3 potentially leave if they don't get substantial PT, maybe starter's minutes??? Or do you break promises to grad transfers without future eligibility? I like the depth going on here - but it does beg the question, who plays the meaningful minutes absent injuries?

I will say this: I felt that RI was out the door long ago (though as a medical retirement) and he's gone. I felt IB was out the door long ago and he's gone. And I now feel Law won't be medically ready next fall - no inside info, just my gut. In that case, all problems solved:
LG - Lathan then Mooney
OG - Mooney then Turner or Taylor
W - Taylor then Kopp or Turner
S4 - Nance then Falzon
C - Pardon then Benson

If Law looks like he can get back by B1G season, then you know what you got in the frosh - plus help with that freshman wall. If not, seek medical redshirt, if he can play again. Unless injury occurs, Gaines left outside looking in and transfers after the season.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

Let alone 2. It's almost painful to read this board between the ongoing petty poster grievances and the disconnect from how it really works. The idea here is to create a pool of talent and recruit over that talent every year. Ideally, Nance is so good he forces Pardon to the bench by the Big10 season because he's averaging 20 and 10. Not likely but that is what is supposed to happen. Can you imagine Collins telling Larry Nance that he's red shirting his son to get Falzon minutes. Jesus. You don't want to have to play the kids but at the same time you recruit them to be stars from day one. If you non-injury redshirt a top 75 player coming off a second-division finish you are buying a transfer.

Nance over Pardon. Never...gonna...happen. Nance is a pretzel and has no business in the middle in the B1G. Maybe for a few minutes in small ball, but zero chance starting over Pardon next year. I will wager on this point - call your bet.

Nance starting over Falzon makes much more sense to me, but what do I know...

 

[NJCat]

Nance starting over Falzon makes much more sense to me, but what do I know...

Softball.....

 

[GOUNUII]

Softball.....

To all of those who have trashed me and my post ... we shall see. The amount of amateur ignorance all of you are so confident in is stunning. Not the ignorance, that’s to be expected. But the level of confidence in your ignorance regarding Nance and his family considerations/impact on future recruiting is truly stunning.

GOUNUII

 

[Secho99]

If Nance and Kopp red-shirt Collins will never land a top recruit again. Your top 75, come to NU where we've made the tourney one time and sit on the bench while I play Jordan Ash at the three so you don't get any game experience. UGH. You people .... think!

This. I’m happy with the effort guys like Ash, Gaines, Falzon and Benson give, but if the new guys are better then they should get the minutes immediately. Isn’t that how this is supposed to work?

 

[hoosboot]

This. I’m happy with the effort guys like Ash, Gaines, Falzon and Benson give, but if the new guys are better then they should get the minutes immediately. Isn’t that how this is supposed to work?

Yes, that's how it's supposed to work. But, why does everyone assume that the Top 100 Freshman are automatically going to be better than the previous Top 100 recruits (who are now more experienced and more physically developed than the incoming frosh) who came before them? What happens if (like with many of the previous recruits) the new guys aren't ready to walk in and be stars on Day 1? What happens if they need some time to develop physically to thrive in the speed and physicality of B1G ball?

There's a pretty sturdy history around here of some folks crowning incoming freshman as the NBT until those same folks turn on those players when they actually take the court and sing the praises of the next NBT.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

In my defense, I don't have Jordan in but for garbage time - and using Kopp for garbage time would be a bigger insult than redshirting, IMHO. In event of injury, shirts get burnt. But more to the other point no one wants to discuss, who plays? You cannot have a regular 11 man rotation. Anyone who thinks so needs to watch some basketball. Ten is a stretch, 8 and 9 are the common rotations. So, assuming a healthy Law and Mooney signs, then who ya got? Can't go more than ten. I could see swapping out Falzon for Kopp - but it means we play small a bunch, or slide Benson into the 4 at times. But that doesn't help the crowded 1,2,3 slots.

At 6'7", 210 - Kopp will get pushed around trying defend other 4's, even of the stretch variety. And will not shoot over anyone. Kopp is a wing, as is Law (he is not a S4, round peg meet square hole ala Brown is not a PG). Mooney, Taylor, Turner - all are SG/SFs.

I suppose it could be done but - if you promised PT to Mooney and Taylor, then (under Max's theory) doesn't any of the Fab 3 potentially leave if they don't get substantial PT, maybe starter's minutes??? Or do you break promises to grad transfers without future eligibility? I like the depth going on here - but it does beg the question, who plays the meaningful minutes absent injuries?

I will say this: I felt that RI was out the door long ago (though as a medical retirement) and he's gone. I felt IB was out the door long ago and he's gone. And I now feel Law won't be medically ready next fall - no inside info, just my gut. In that case, all problems solved:
LG - Lathan then Mooney
OG - Mooney then Turner or Taylor
W - Taylor then Kopp or Turner
S4 - Nance then Falzon
C - Pardon then Benson

If Law looks like he can get back by B1G season, then you know what you got in the frosh - plus help with that freshman wall. If not, seek medical redshirt, if he can play again. Unless injury occurs, Gaines left outside looking in and transfers after the season.

I don’t see Gaines being left out in any scenario short of injury.

 

[DaCat]

When I watched Falzon hobbling around last season, he looked like Willis Reed vs. the Lakers. I think he could be an important piece to the puzzle for us but I fear his knees are not in good shape. With Law's surgery adding more uncertainty, we're going to need all the bodies we have.

 

[freewillie07]

To all of those who have trashed me and my post ... we shall see. The amount of amateur ignorance all of you are so confident in is stunning. Not the ignorance, that’s to be expected. But the level of confidence in your ignorance regarding Nance and his family considerations/impact on future recruiting is truly stunning.

GOUNUII

I fall somewhere in between. I think you’re probably right that Nance won’t be an immediate star. He needs time to develop. The competition he faced in high school wasn’t top tier.

But I also think there’s no way in the world Collins can/will/should redshirt him. Max is correct. He’s going to be a crucial piece of this program for years to come, but that doesn’t mean you sit him out for a year while healthy. He’s going to learn on the job.

Why is everyone freaking out about the rotation? Whoever is best will play. It’s sure better than having to throw players who had no business being out there onto the court out of necessity.