Muhammad Ali on life support

[Real Deal 2]

All I do is account for my family and myself. If a draft were implemented again and I was called I'd go. I wouldn't disgrace my families last name and dodge.

I'm sorry it's one thing to accept a persons actions as noble in its own right. Claiming it adds up to the suffering families go through because they took some stand is ******** and wrong. Off topic of course not directed at anyone or Ali. It's my opinion.

Give me a freaking break. Ali couldn't even eat in a Southern restaurant, he couldn't walk in the Seelbach hotel through the front door. I mean this guy was told to go quietly into draft, go quietly into Army and he would never set foot on enemy territory or raise a hand in combat and he said hell no. This is why he is a great man, He could have gone and been a martyr ala Joe Louis in WW2, or the Max Schmelling fight, Joe Louis was broke by US govt. in 40's after they made his life miserable and the fact he could not stay in a hotel in the South or Midwest but good enough to die for your country. Joe Louis fought exhibitions and US govt. made his life miserable.

US wasn't giving Ali ****, he was penniless when he came back, levied fines, levied attorney fees, they also took the 3-4 years of his best years. He could have trained and made his money by going to the draft board, he was bigger man to say no. I will not be a pawn. He couldn't sit at restaurant in Louisville with white folks and you wanted him to die for country. Bravo, kudos. He stood for something.

Got news as many who served have eloquently spoken. John Fogerty sang he was not a Senator Son or Fortunate Son. The middle class and poor fight the battle for the one's who think wars are good.
Look at W Bush, hell he was AWOL for 2-3 years in Mobile and Fla. gulf coast never reporting for duty. Partying and stuff.


He is on life support to allow all his kids and family to arrive is what I have heard.

 

[Real Deal 2]

I think you hit reply to the wrong poster. I never claimed he was a draft dodger and I do agree we need more sheep dogs and less sheep.

Sorry, hit the reply button, not specific to your post. Hope no offense

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

You do realize this guy let his brain get beat to a pulp so boxing fans could be amused and entertained?
It was boxing then. Not a pop sport now.

Please. You think he did it for the fan? He called Frazier horrible names. You didn't seem to respond to that. Hmmm

 

[.S&C.]

Give me a freaking break. Ali couldn't even eat in a Southern restaurant, he couldn't walk in the Seelbach hotel through the front door. I mean this guy was told to go quietly into draft, go quietly into Army and he would never set foot on enemy territory or raise a hand in combat and he said hell no. This is why he is a great man, He could have gone and been a martyr ala Joe Louis in WW2, or the Max Schmelling fight, Joe Louis was broke by US govt. in 40's after they made his life miserable and the fact he could not stay in a hotel in the South or Midwest but good enough to die for your country. Joe Louis fought exhibitions and US govt. made his life miserable.

US wasn't giving Ali ****, he was penniless when he came back, levied fines, levied attorney fees, they also took the 3-4 years of his best years. He could have trained and made his money by going to the draft board, he was bigger man to say no. I will not be a pawn. He couldn't sit at restaurant in Louisville with white folks and you wanted him to die for country. Bravo, kudos. He stood for something.

Got news as many who served have eloquently spoken. John Fogerty sang he was not a Senator Son or Fortunate Son. The middle class and poor fight the battle for the one's who think wars are good.
Look at W Bush, hell he was AWOL for 2-3 years in Mobile and Fla. gulf coast never reporting for duty. Partying and stuff.


He is on life support to allow all his kids and family to arrive is what I have heard.

Other black men fought and died under worse circumstances. I have more respect for those. You don't. Got it. Save the civil rights walk though. It's understood.

Passing at an old age is a gift many didn't recieve in this context. I always have empathy for someone passing. This is no different.

 

[stuway]

And he has passed away RIP to the best boxer ever

 

[wall2rondo]

My grandfather was on Omaha beach

My father was rejected in Vietnam over his torn up knee and discharge after his physical

My uncle lost his leg and was captured in Vietnam

My half sisters uncle was a focal point of a book and has a statue in Owensboro of him about being MIA and POW in Vietnam

All the family agrees the Vietnam war was garbage and unwarranted. The thing they disagree on is the racial point Ali took. But at the end of the day they all agree Ali is the greatest figure to come from KY

We have grown and divided as a country in the last 50 years. But Cassius clay is one of the greatest figures of all time. He is leaps and bounds above Kareem Abdul Jabar

 

[jameslee32]

RIP to such a beloved man and boxer. Prayer's to the champ's family.

 

[.S&C.]

Another legend gone.

 

[dallasg23]

So how many of you hard core non draft dodging fellas went to their local recruiters September 12 2001? Was there a draft? No. There was a call to fight. How many of y'all answered the call? Go ahead. I'll wait. Unless you served don't knock him for sayin no. Stand behind his religious beliefs no matter what they were

 

[tbone.ky]

Ali's cataclysmic impact might have been even greater. He totally changed the way people acted -- the naked ego, the brashness, the wild flights of braggadocio, the total disregard for efforts to keep him in his place. The wild, egotistical, colorful, brazen behavior of athletes and other public figures that annoys or entertains us today all can be traced, at least in part, to Ali.

I, too, grew up watching Ali fight as a child (back when they televised title fights on network TV)... He's one of a kind, no doubt.

He was not only a "cerebral assassin" with using trash talk to get into opponents heads; however, he was as witty and charismatic as "The Rock" when in front of a camera.

Best wishes and prayers for the Ali family.

 

[ToniTonyToneDelkDelkDelk]

In a post hours after somebody's death, I would hope that people didn't take time to include their own political ideologies and respect the dead. Then, keep it moving. Or say nothing at all.

But of course... this is the internet.

 

[EastKYWildcat]

Dad died from Agent Orange exposure in Vietnam.. I don't blame anyone for dodging the Vietnam draft.

 

[Anon1658882690]

Had I been drafted when i was 18,, I'd went.. Had I been drafted at 18 knowing what I know now? I'd dodge the hell out of it.. Wars anymore aren't about freedom like they want you to think.. WWll was for freedom but most since are for the government benefit of some nature and the man,, not freedom.. I'm not fighting a war for this ****** government we have now.. And I don't blame Ali when he did..

Oh,, a FYI,, I respect servicemen.. I just don't respect the government and the rest that they fight for..

 

[UKvisitor_rivals101449]

Ali played the media to hype his profession. He was one of the 1st in the tv age and did it better than others. I never understood why anyone would want to be a pro boxer. Was in too many boxing pickup matches, Ones where the PE coaches put the gloves on bickering kids.

 

[musrat59]

It is official, he did pass away sometime overnight..

 

[RacerX.ksr]

Now that he's finally gone, can we all call him by his given name? His terrorist name will live on, but we all know who he really was. Cassius Marcellus Clay. Die like a butterfly, die like a bee.

 

[UKvisitor_rivals101449]

Now that he's finally gone, can we all call him by his given name? His terrorist name will live on, but we all know who he really was. Cassius Marcellus Clay. Die like a butterfly, die like a bee.

There was no terrorist in Ali. BS posts is terror planning. 1st amendment to the constitution applies here in several ways.

 

[AlbanyWildCat]

Now that he's finally gone, can we all call him by his given name? His terrorist name will live on, but we all know who he really was. Cassius Marcellus Clay. Die like a butterfly, die like a bee.

DIAF or please go play in traffic...

 

[UKvisitor_rivals101449]

Nice bio obit at Kentucky.com

" Before Ali turned 18, he would fight 108 amateur boxing matches. He won six Kentucky Golden Glove titles, two national Golden Glove championships and two national AAU titles.

Yet he almost missed his greatest achievement as an amateur. After he qualified to represent the United States in the 1960 Rome Olympics, it emerged that Ali was afraid to fly.

He had to be coaxed into a trans-Atlantic voyage. But once in Rome, he won his first three fights and wound up facing Poland’s Zbigniew Pietrykowski, a crafty left-hander, for the gold medal in the 178-pound division.

The Pole clearly won the first round and was still ahead on points after the second. But in the final round, Ali was able to summon his best form, and almost scored a knockout. As it was, he won on every judge’s card.

He brought the gold medal home to Louisville." (Ali later claimed he threw the medal into the ohio river)

ABC Good Morning America is leading with the story.

 

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

As is made obvious in this thread, Ali is a divisive figure, a political figure really. ESPN to a lesser extent and Sports Illustrated to a greater extent have a very fixed point of view on these kinds of social and political figures and issues. My guess is Ali is going to be celebrated like no athlete in recent times, at least by those 2. If you dont want to see and hear that kind of hagiography, ought to just avoid the news for a few days....

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

So how many of you hard core non draft dodging fellas went to their local recruiters September 12 2001? Was there a draft? No. There was a call to fight. How many of y'all answered the call? Go ahead. I'll wait. Unless you served don't knock him for sayin no. Stand behind his religious beliefs no matter what they were

I did serve and well before 9/11

 

[Big John Stud]

All I do is account for my family and myself. If a draft were implemented again and I was called I'd go. I wouldn't disgrace my families last name and dodge.

I'm sorry it's one thing to accept a persons actions as noble in its own right. Claiming it adds up to the suffering families go through because they took some stand is ******** and wrong. Off topic of course not directed at anyone or Ali. It's my opinion.

BS, you are so fake. Everything about you is fake. You have a problem with him but you sent him a bunch of stuff to be signed. Bwahaha, ok. If President Obama instituted a draft today for a war in Vietnam there's zero chance you'd go.

 

[.S&C.]

BS, you are so fake. Everything about you is fake. You have a problem with him but you sent him a bunch of stuff to be signed. Bwahaha, ok. If President Obama instituted a draft today for a war in Vietnam there's zero chance you'd go.

You always have been a touching idiot. How have you lasted off my ignore list this long.

Fixed. Ghost.

 

[kyboy1998_rivals34276]

BS, you are so fake. Everything about you is fake. You have a problem with him but you sent him a bunch of stuff to be signed. Bwahaha, ok. If President Obama instituted a draft today for a war in Vietnam there's zero chance you'd go.

Using Bwahaha is kind of your thing isn't it? Your'e probably the lol type and trying to find a way around it.

Geek.

 

[Big John Stud]

Using Bwahaha is kind of your thing isn't it? Your'e probably the lol type and trying to find a way around it.

Geek.

Not addressing the point is kinda your thing isn't it. You prolly have nothing to say but had to get one in for your boy. Worst help ever! Bwahaha... see what I did there? Lol.

 

[Big John Stud]

You always have been a touching idiot. How have you lasted off my ignore list this long.

Fixed. Ghost.

You said you put me on the ignore list when I called you out when you said Skal was dirty and everyone in Memphis knew it. I asked for facts and of course you didn't have any because you were lying. That seems to be a theme.

 

[Crushgroove]

"Sheep dogs."

Somebody is a NutnFancy fan.

 

[kyboy1998_rivals34276]

Not addressing the point is kinda your thing isn't it. You prolly have nothing to say but had to get one in for your boy. Worst help ever! Bwahaha... see what I did there? Lol.

I made my point on page one. I gave my opinion of what I considered Ali's contribution to the world (a guy that could fight and ran his mouth), a slight to mankind (how little it takes to receive reverence in modern times) and my personal account of the man (he signed a couple things I will now sell).

I'm not taking up for my "boy", I don't know the guy. I was honestly just making fun of you for being an lol and Bwahaha type.

 

[TortElvisII]

. Joe Louis fought exhibitions and US govt. made his life miserable.

I had an uncle killed at Iwo Jima shortly after being decorated for bravery.

Had another uncle watch men beside him try to blow up Tigers with land mines during the Battle of the Bulge.

Poor Joe.

 

[GhostVol]

You always have been a touching idiot. How have you lasted off my ignore list this long.

Fixed. Ghost.

Leave me out of this (tongue in cheek font).

 

[RACdad]

Just out of curiosity...have you served in any armed conflicts ala Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan? I haven't so I try not to judge another man for refusing to kill men he has never met. But that's just me.

yes

 

[funKYcat75]

I think I heard he died.

 

[CatFromDaHood]

My grandmother lived on 32nd and Grand......just 5 houses down from his family, is a great shame that I never met the man in person.

RIP Champ.

 

[sambowieshin_rivals]

yes

Thank you for your service.

 

[Zakk Wyldcat]

Now that he's finally gone, can we all call him by his given name? His terrorist name will live on, but we all know who he really was. Cassius Marcellus Clay. Die like a butterfly, die like a bee.

"His mama call Clay, I'ma call him Clay"

 

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

Heard Dave Kindred on the radio earlier. Said by now surely all agree Vietnam was a mistake, so Ali ended up on the right side of history on that one.

Dave's pretty smart - how could he get that so wrong?

 

[Real Deal 2]

Heard Dave Kindred on the radio earlier. Said by now surely all agree Vietnam was a mistake, so Ali ended up on the right side of history on that one.

Dave's pretty smart - how could he get that so wrong?

What's wrong with what Dave said. Not sure where you are going with this. Vietnam was a major mistake. We lost 58,000 + people in that melee.

Find it funny that all the great people of the next great war were all of that age. George Bush, Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld etc. None of these MF's ever served in their war, none of these SOB's ever were in combat.
Dick Cheney had a deferment, Bush was running around the gulf coast screwing around but all of these guys felt like they were experts in war, experts in sending kids to war, kids that they never were.
God Bless these young volunteers, guys and gals who serve their country without any complaint.

Ali was right, I have never heard many Vietnam guys badger him or the guys who went to college, most were happy for their friends to got to college and not go. Vets do not like the guys who fled to Canada.
Ali was a great man, so glad he did not become a pawn in this unjust war and become a recruiter by joining. He lost every thing a man could lose.
IMO

 

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

What's wrong with what Dave said. Not sure where you are going with this. Vietnam was a major mistake. We lost 58,000 + people in that melee.

...Dick Cheney had a deferment, Bush was running around the gulf coast screwing around but all of these guys felt like they were experts in war, experts in sending kids to war, kids that they never were.

Couple of things here. First, as regards what Kindred said, he's missing the point. Actually worse, he's doing what a lot of others are doing today: co-opting Ali's legacy as an endorsement of their own political views. If Ali had said "I would gladly have fought in WWI or WWII, because those were justifiable wars. But I cannot fight in Vietnam as I think it's an unjust war." Then Dave would have a point. But of course that's not what Ali said or thought. He said his conscience wouldn't allow him to fight, because of the teachings of his religion. So, he wouldn't have fought against Hitler, either. Which would've been interesting - all these people celebrating Ali for "standing up for what he believed in", what would they have said if he'd have refused service in World War II? Because, obviously, he would have.....Ali did not refuse to fight in Vietnam because it was a mistake, he refused to fight in the armed services of the US because it violated his religion. Bottom line.

Second, understand your comment about Cheney, Bush, etc. Did F Roosevelt ever serve in the military? Did Lincoln? How about Kennedy? What do you think about those wars? To the point: do you only object to leaders without military service sending kids into battle when you're talking about a war you don't like?

 

[UKvisitor_rivals101449]

A comment on what not said in this thread:

"Clay v. United States, 403 U.S. 698 (1971), was Muhammad Ali's appeal of his conviction in 1967 for refusing to report for induction into the United States military forces during the Vietnam War. His local draft board had rejected his application for conscientious objector classification. In a unanimous 8-0 ruling (Thurgood Marshall recused himself due to his previous involvement in the case as a Justice department official), the United States Supreme Court reversed the Fifth Circuit's confirmation of the conviction.

The Supreme Court of the United States found the government had failed to properly specify why Ali's application had been denied, thereby requiring the conviction to be overturned. A unanimous decision (8-0), "the court said the record shows that [Ali's] beliefs are founded on tenets of the Muslim religion as he understands them."