The only case for them in is that the conference tournament is a farce. And that just won't hold water with the committee nor most people. Going on the road and winning night after night is not easy in any conference. Murray did that for two months and in reality the OVC should want them representing over Belmont. But, the money talks and the tournament champ goes, no matter their record or if they will represent better or not. It's a heartbreaker, but I still say that Murray has a chance to get to the semi's of the NIT and when all is said and done, it will still have been a great year for the Racers.
Murray Player Tweets Plea for Spot in NCAAs
- Thread starter akaukswoosh
- Start date
What I don't understand is that the polls had them (I think) 23rd before this loss. So, you're telling me this one loss in their conference tournament drops the 23rd ranked team out of the tourney? There is a huge problem somewhere, either in the polls or tourney committee, if this is the case. Hell, a 23rd should be around 4-7 seed right?
Best I can tell BobbyG is that the committee weighs SOS and the pollsters just look basically at W's.
they were 25 and 24, this week they are 35 in the Coaches and no votes in AP. Win the conference tourney and get in. That's how it works for about 30 conferences.
How many posters that want them in the tourney would have said so last year when we were struggling to gain our bid ? If you took that approach for all teams like Murray then we might not have gotten in and everybody would scoff at the notion of a title game appearance . You can't let the Murray St's of the world diluting the tournament , if there not good enough to win their tournament then they shouldn't get in .
Contrary to some naysayers in this thread, Murray is good enough to get an at-large in this tournament. They pass the eye-test no matter what the numbers say. They have experience, are very athletic, good shooters, a superstar point guard, and enough athletic size to play with anyone 5 seed or higher that gets in this tournament.
I do agree that they will not get a bid, and they should have won their conference tournament, but it still doesn't mean that it is not heartbreaking for the team and fans of the program. They had a hell of a year, the second longest winning streak in the country, before getting beat by a team playing out of their mind, that hit to lucky-as-hell 3 pointers in the last minute to beat them.
It is just hard to swallow when you see teams like IU that have opportunity after opportunity to win a game and secure their place in the field, and they keep getting their *** beat (at home) and they are still the last four in. Then you have a Murray, that had a historic season, get beat in a fluke 1-point game in a conference tournament, and they aren't even considered, even though they are as good as numerous power conference teams that will get the nod.... You can quote all the numbers you want about how they are not as good as these power conference teams 7-10 seed teams, but people that have seen Murray play know they are deserving....
I do agree that they will not get a bid, and they should have won their conference tournament, but it still doesn't mean that it is not heartbreaking for the team and fans of the program. They had a hell of a year, the second longest winning streak in the country, before getting beat by a team playing out of their mind, that hit to lucky-as-hell 3 pointers in the last minute to beat them.
It is just hard to swallow when you see teams like IU that have opportunity after opportunity to win a game and secure their place in the field, and they keep getting their *** beat (at home) and they are still the last four in. Then you have a Murray, that had a historic season, get beat in a fluke 1-point game in a conference tournament, and they aren't even considered, even though they are as good as numerous power conference teams that will get the nod.... You can quote all the numbers you want about how they are not as good as these power conference teams 7-10 seed teams, but people that have seen Murray play know they are deserving....
This ^
Also, to the poster that said something about teams 'diluting' the tournament, I couldn't disagree more. This tournament is all about the power teams and the cinderellas. The UKs and the Murray's. NOBODY gets excited about the marginal power conference team getting into the tournament.
Also, to the poster that said something about teams 'diluting' the tournament, I couldn't disagree more. This tournament is all about the power teams and the cinderellas. The UKs and the Murray's. NOBODY gets excited about the marginal power conference team getting into the tournament.
The problem with the "anyone who has seen them play..." argument is that anyone who has seen them play, saw them playing against teams that are 150 and worse. If you are in the OVC then you have to play and beat somebody with a top 100 RPI to even have a sniff at an at-large selection. 26 of their 27 wins were against teams rated lower than 100...22 of those wins were rated lower than 150. Only 3 games vs teams in the top 100 and they were 1-2 in those games.
Gotta go along with this. I like Murray and was pulling for them to win their conference tourney and get the automatic bid. I'm a fan of getting as many Kentucky schools in (well, there is that one red school I wouldn't mind dropping) the NCAA as possible but I think some of us are just thinking about another state school and wouldn't come close to saying the same thing if it were a mid major team from some other state. They had their chance and didn't finish the deal so I think they will be headed for the NIT. I feel bad for them but can't say they would be getting cheated either. I also don't believe IU deserves to be in the NCAA at all either but we'll see on them.
SMU did not make the tourney last year and I think they were ranked in the last regular season poll. Another MVC team I believe took their slot due to conference strength of schedule.
Is this a thread about Belmont deserving to win, or a thread discussing Murray State begging for a tournament invite after blowing the one chance they had to earn one? I'm pretty sure I know which it is, but do you? Did I even say the word "Belmont" or is that somewhere you took the conversation all by yourself?
Appreciate you quoting me some RPI numbers. I don't know what I was thinking. I have only "watched" basketball for 4 decades. I only thought I knew what I was watching that whole time. Thank god RPI and Kenpom came about so I can be told what teams are good and what teams suck based on computer analytics.
I think this conversation is going to go about as far as Murray does in the NCAA tourney this year, so we'll just leave it at this and go our separate ways. Good day, sir.
This post was edited on 3/9 5:27 PM by UKCatsFan10
Love the Racers. However, they are a better fit for the NIT this year. They could make it to Madison Square Garden. Best this team could do is one or two and out in the big dance.
Now looking to the future. MSU has a great program with a lot of tradition. They should be the 3rd best team in the state most years and they could easily be a consistent top 35 program. To do this they really need to beef up the OOC schedule. They need to play UK or UofL most years along with another top 25 team. Sure they will nearly always lose but they will get publicity and money. Use the money to hire a coach with a name that can recruit. They also need to play and beat a couple of top100 schools each year. Finally, they need to work their way into a better conference like CUSA or the MAC.
Now looking to the future. MSU has a great program with a lot of tradition. They should be the 3rd best team in the state most years and they could easily be a consistent top 35 program. To do this they really need to beef up the OOC schedule. They need to play UK or UofL most years along with another top 25 team. Sure they will nearly always lose but they will get publicity and money. Use the money to hire a coach with a name that can recruit. They also need to play and beat a couple of top100 schools each year. Finally, they need to work their way into a better conference like CUSA or the MAC.
Yep, love to see them make the dance...but when you look at the bubble teams this year that they are up against I just don't see the committee taking them.
Not over a Texas, IU, UCLA in name alone, A&M, Illinois, even a Miami (beat Duke) and BYU (beat BYU) . Lunardi also has ODU and Temple ahead of them right now.
Each win any of those have in conference tournaments puts them that much farther ahead of Murray in the pecking order.
They would need each and every one of those bubble teams to lose their 1st games in conference tourney's to make the cut. Not impossible, but very unlikely.
Not over a Texas, IU, UCLA in name alone, A&M, Illinois, even a Miami (beat Duke) and BYU (beat BYU) . Lunardi also has ODU and Temple ahead of them right now.
Each win any of those have in conference tournaments puts them that much farther ahead of Murray in the pecking order.
They would need each and every one of those bubble teams to lose their 1st games in conference tourney's to make the cut. Not impossible, but very unlikely.
I think there should be a limit to the number of teams that receive bids from the Power conferences. Take the regular season champ, the tourney champ, and then up to 3-4 others. Limit it to 5, maybe 6. If you're not in the top 5 in your conference, you shouldn't be expected to play for the National Championship. This should be the price member schools pay for receiving all of the other benefits of being in a power conference.
It's possible an 8th place power conference team is better than a Murray State; maybe even probable. Most likely, there's not a noticeable difference between the two. I don't know that anyone can say that one is "more deserving" than the other. In Utopia, neither would probably be "deserving" of an opportunity to play for the National Championship. But the P5 team likely had the opportunity to play ranked teams on their home floor, and probably lost. The Murrays of the world don't get that opportunity. UL (@ WKU) is the only highly ranked P5 team I can think of that plays at a mid-major. I would certainly take Murray even-up if IU were to play at Murray.
It will never happen, because the NS States and TA&Ms of the world draw more fans and the NCAA wants to keep the power conferences happy. But I would much rather see what a 26-5 Murray, St. Mary's, Old Dominion, etc. is capable of than watch a 17-14 Clemson or whoever.
It's possible an 8th place power conference team is better than a Murray State; maybe even probable. Most likely, there's not a noticeable difference between the two. I don't know that anyone can say that one is "more deserving" than the other. In Utopia, neither would probably be "deserving" of an opportunity to play for the National Championship. But the P5 team likely had the opportunity to play ranked teams on their home floor, and probably lost. The Murrays of the world don't get that opportunity. UL (@ WKU) is the only highly ranked P5 team I can think of that plays at a mid-major. I would certainly take Murray even-up if IU were to play at Murray.
It will never happen, because the NS States and TA&Ms of the world draw more fans and the NCAA wants to keep the power conferences happy. But I would much rather see what a 26-5 Murray, St. Mary's, Old Dominion, etc. is capable of than watch a 17-14 Clemson or whoever.
Totally agree. It's not over yet for Murray as I just read a nice article on Bleacher Report about the most overlooked player - (Cameron Payne from Murray). If Murray gets in and is placed in Louisville I would guarantee a better crowd than NC St or TX AM or Ole Miss or LSU...
RPI is simply a metric for gauging relative strength of teams. It is NOT perfect by any stretch or we wouldn't see so many upsets in the tournament.
As for why UK should play Murray? UK has played every other state school in the last few years so why the heck not? All of the talk that Murray has demanded a return game is complete BS.
RPI is simply a metric for gauging relative strength of teams. It is NOT perfect by any stretch or we wouldn't see so many upsets in the tournament.
As for why UK should play Murray? UK has played every other state school in the last few years so why the heck not? All of the talk that Murray has demanded a return game is complete BS.
if they are good enough to be ranked in the top 25 at the end of the season, they are good enough to be in the field of 68. and sometimes the SOS is not good because good teams don't want to schedule you!!
If you out the numbers out there with no name beside them...then it's a no brainier. No way does the team below get in.
0 top 50 wins
1 top 100 win
Schedule strength in the 200s
Good story...local, so people want them in. But several mid-majors are more deserving.
And it's not UKs job or concern to play them to help their cause.
0 top 50 wins
1 top 100 win
Schedule strength in the 200s
Good story...local, so people want them in. But several mid-majors are more deserving.
And it's not UKs job or concern to play them to help their cause.
So how can Murray improve their OOC schedule with your stance Rex? again, UK plays everybody else but Murray.
Well, not to sound harsh but it wouldn't take much to improve their SOS as they literally play no one. That's their choice. It's not up to UK to play them.
The short answer is that they have to beef up their OOC schedule considerably. Lots of options out there besides UK to accomplish that objective. Many mid-majors play a tough schedule without playing UK. Murray St could also.
I actually hope they somehow get in as it would give me a "must watch" 1st round game as I would pull for them to upset someone.
But it's hard to feel sorry for them. The OVC being a 1 bid league has hardly snuck up on them. It's always been that way. They should've upgraded the schedule years ago if they wanted a legitimate "at-large bid" argument.
This post was edited on 3/10 8:29 PM by 3rex
The short answer is that they have to beef up their OOC schedule considerably. Lots of options out there besides UK to accomplish that objective. Many mid-majors play a tough schedule without playing UK. Murray St could also.
I actually hope they somehow get in as it would give me a "must watch" 1st round game as I would pull for them to upset someone.
But it's hard to feel sorry for them. The OVC being a 1 bid league has hardly snuck up on them. It's always been that way. They should've upgraded the schedule years ago if they wanted a legitimate "at-large bid" argument.
This post was edited on 3/10 8:29 PM by 3rex
I guess if they want to come to Rupp and get their asses handed to them...maybe it can be arranged. I'm not sure though.
Rex is right though, 0 percent shot at getting in, nor do they deserve to be in.
I also do not buy the logic of Murray deserving in over a power 5 that has lost 12-13 games...if people delusionally think Murray would not have that many losses or more (almost certainly more) playing the same schedule, idk what to tell you.
What I heard is UK won't play them because they insist on a home and home. UK is not going to play Murray State on State's home floor. Except for UL, the others (EKU, WKU, and Morehead) play only at Rupp with no return date.
Wrong, Murray never demanded a return home game. This has been urban legend since the days when Popeye Jones was at Murray. My parents live there so I keep up w what goes on.
I'm not going to argue, but you don't think its a coincidence they never play UK while the rest of the state schools have. And I'm not even a big fan of Matt Jones, but I've heard him allude to this and I trust him, who has connections to the athletic department, more than your parents. Sorry.
Trust who you want but this is just a bunch of crap. When Pitino was at UK he actually made some reference about not wanting to play Murray. Why? Because they were a threat to the Cats for several seasons. Probably not now...
Read the article and close to the bottom you'll see the Pitino reference.
http://www.parispi.net/opinion/columns/article_a75f7764-7945-5512-b764-f530085427c9.html?mode=jqm
http://www.parispi.net/opinion/columns/article_a75f7764-7945-5512-b764-f530085427c9.html?mode=jqm
I would love to watch Murray State play in the NCAA Tourney and when they do get in they are usually a 12 or 13 seed that no team wants to play. They are that 12 or 13 seed that can pull a major upset. The problem with Murray State is that they are sitting at 68 rpi at 26-5 and their SOS is 237 and that is on Realtime RPI Website. There is no way that the Committee would put in a team that has a 68 RPI and 237 SOS. Murray State lost 4 of 5 to start the year and the losses were to Houston, Valpo, Portland, and Xavier. Murray State needs to somehow strengthen there OOC schedule with playing in the OVC.