My Opinion On the Biggest Reason for Poor OL Play in 2021

[mrmk5110]

2017 Recruiting Class:

CJ Thorpe - #89 Nat, transferred out
Mike Miranda - #446 Nat, starting C, IMO not a P5-quality C
Robert Martin - #633 Nat, transferred out
Des Holmes - #868 Nat, never cracked the starting lineup

2018 Recruiting Class:

Rasheed Walker - #65 Nat, 3-year starter
Nana Asiedu - #116 Nat, medically retired
Juice Scruggs - #233 Nat, lost a year+ of development due to the accident
Bryce Effner - #635 Nat, probably not a quality P5 OT

2019 Recruiting Class:

Caedan Wallace - #81 Nat, guard playing out of position at T
Anthony Whigan - #7 JUCO, not a key contributor
Saleem Wormley - #287 Nat, unsure if he will contribute

Thats it. Our OL recruiting from 2017-2019 (the last 3 years of our previous OL coach) was, combined with some bad luck in 2018 class, largely woeful. Losing Asiedu from that class, along with the accident with Scruggs, really set the OL room back a great deal. 2017 was largely a whiff, and 2019 isn't looking much better. Unknown on 2020, though we will find out more next year as Fashanu will likely be your starting LT, and one of the guards will likely have to step up (Achumba, Dawkins?) Recruiting HAS to pick up if PSU wants to compete. We had to rely on a transfer from Harvard to play LG, and he was in over his head at times in conference play.

This is why I am not yet out on Trautwein, although 2021 was a disappointment only bringing in 1 OL in Tengwall (even though I think he has played well in limited time), and Bruce leaving. Maybe one day Bruce might consider a return and make it back on the roster, but I'm not counting on it. Need 2022 with Shelton and Roye (among others) to pan out well. 2023 is looking up with Birchmeier and Barnwell (assuming he move to OT) already on board.

 

[Ram20]

2017 Recruiting Class:

CJ Thorpe - #89 Nat, transferred out
Mike Miranda - #446 Nat, starting C, IMO not a P5-quality C
Robert Martin - #633 Nat, transferred out
Des Holmes - #868 Nat, never cracked the starting lineup

2018 Recruiting Class:

Rasheed Walker - #65 Nat, 3-year starter
Nana Asiedu - #116 Nat, medically retired
Juice Scruggs - #233 Nat, lost a year+ of development due to the accident
Bryce Effner - #635 Nat, probably not a quality P5 OT

2019 Recruiting Class:

Caedan Wallace - #81 Nat, guard playing out of position at T
Anthony Whigan - #7 JUCO, not a key contributor
Saleem Wormley - #287 Nat, unsure if he will contribute

Thats it. Our OL recruiting from 2017-2019 (the last 3 years of our previous OL coach) was, combined with some bad luck in 2018 class, largely woeful. Losing Asiedu from that class, along with the accident with Scruggs, really set the OL room back a great deal. 2017 was largely a whiff, and 2019 isn't looking much better. Unknown on 2020, though we will find out more next year as Fashanu will likely be your starting LT, and one of the guards will likely have to step up (Achumba, Dawkins?) Recruiting HAS to pick up if PSU wants to compete. We had to rely on a transfer from Harvard to play LG, and he was in over his head at times in conference play.

This is why I am not yet out on Trautwein, although 2021 was a disappointment only bringing in 1 OL in Tengwall (even though I think he has played well in limited time), and Bruce leaving. Maybe one day Bruce might consider a return and make it back on the roster, but I'm not counting on it. Need 2022 with Shelton and Roye (among others) to pan out well. 2023 is looking up with Birchmeier and Barnwell (assuming he move to OT) already on board.

Take a look at our recruiting the position this year and years previous. The staff does not appear to value offensive line play, let's hope that changes. As cool as it is to have the #1QB and #1RB coming in next year, it isn't going to matter if we keep putting guys like WIlson and Miranda in front of them. We really need to start to recruit o-linemen like we have skill position and cornerbacks. Need to get our hands on as many as possible, leave scholarships for them, let them duke it out, then portal the ones that don't make it. In the meantime, we need to bring in 4-6 transfer O-linemen in the off season and tell them them 2-3 spots are up for grabs, may the best man win....rest can portal their fat asses out. Sorry, isn't "start with I love you end with I love you," but you cannot allow Allar to progress the way Hack, Trace, and Clifford have, as is now evident, having four 4star RB's means squat if you can't open holes.

 

[1000 OaksLion]

2017 Recruiting Class:

CJ Thorpe - #89 Nat, transferred out
Mike Miranda - #446 Nat, starting C, IMO not a P5-quality C
Robert Martin - #633 Nat, transferred out
Des Holmes - #868 Nat, never cracked the starting lineup

2018 Recruiting Class:

Rasheed Walker - #65 Nat, 3-year starter
Nana Asiedu - #116 Nat, medically retired
Juice Scruggs - #233 Nat, lost a year+ of development due to the accident
Bryce Effner - #635 Nat, probably not a quality P5 OT

2019 Recruiting Class:

Caedan Wallace - #81 Nat, guard playing out of position at T
Anthony Whigan - #7 JUCO, not a key contributor
Saleem Wormley - #287 Nat, unsure if he will contribute

Thats it. Our OL recruiting from 2017-2019 (the last 3 years of our previous OL coach) was, combined with some bad luck in 2018 class, largely woeful. Losing Asiedu from that class, along with the accident with Scruggs, really set the OL room back a great deal. 2017 was largely a whiff, and 2019 isn't looking much better. Unknown on 2020, though we will find out more next year as Fashanu will likely be your starting LT, and one of the guards will likely have to step up (Achumba, Dawkins?) Recruiting HAS to pick up if PSU wants to compete. We had to rely on a transfer from Harvard to play LG, and he was in over his head at times in conference play.

This is why I am not yet out on Trautwein, although 2021 was a disappointment only bringing in 1 OL in Tengwall (even though I think he has played well in limited time), and Bruce leaving. Maybe one day Bruce might consider a return and make it back on the roster, but I'm not counting on it. Need 2022 with Shelton and Roye (among others) to pan out well. 2023 is looking up with Birchmeier and Barnwell (assuming he move to OT) already on board.

Exactly... yet there are some who believe it's scheme. The truth is there is a lack of talent on the OL. That said, I see a fair amount of improvement with both 68 and 73 moving on.

 

[mrmk5110]

Take a look at our recruiting the position this year and years previous. The staff does not appear to value offensive line play, let's hope that changes. As cool as it is to have the #1QB and #1RB coming in next year, it isn't going to matter if we keep putting guys like WIlson and Miranda in front of them. We really need to start to recruit o-linemen like we have skill position and cornerbacks. Need to get our hands on as many as possible, leave scholarships for them, let them duke it out, then portal the ones that don't make it. In the meantime, we need to bring in 4-6 transfer O-linemen in the off season and tell them them 2-3 spots are up for grabs, may the best man win....rest can portal their fat asses out. Sorry, isn't "start with I love you end with I love you," but you cannot allow Allar to progress the way Hack, Trace, and Clifford have, as is now evident, having four 4star RB's means squat if you can't open holes.

Part of the issue though is that locally on our area OL rankings just haven't been that high; the talent is just not there. Generally it is more difficult for whatever reason to recruit lineman nationally than it is WB, RB, and WRs. OSU does it, but OSU also has a national recruiting presence that PSU doesn't yet have (part of the reason Franklin has been pushing for upgrades and more budget). In PA and neighboring states of NJ, MD, NY, DE, WV, and OH, these were the only players in 2021 to finish in the top247 composite at OL:

PA - Nolan Rucci - #16, Wisconsin (bad loss)
MD - Landon Tengwall - #54, PSU
WV - Wyatt Milum, #109, WVU
OH - Ben Christman - #124, OSU
NJ - None
NY - None
DE - None

Thats it. Even Ohio was down in 2021. Shocking to see NJ not have 1. The past cycle was a historically bad cycle for OL in the northeast, and losing Rucci to Wisconsin was a big blow on top of it. PA only had 2 guys finish in the top 800, the other guy being Bruce.

If PSU wants to seriously compete they need to get much better at recruiting OL nationally, or even further regionally than what they are doing now.

 

[psuro]

FWIW, OL is probably the biggest question mark of any position the transition from HS to college. Big kids who are used to pushing around smaller kids but are not used to being pushed around themselves.

That said, it's still the coaches responsibility to identify and develop the talent.

 

[Ram20]

Part of the issue though is that locally on our area OL rankings just haven't been that high; the talent is just not there. Generally it is more difficult for whatever reason to recruit lineman nationally than it is WB, RB, and WRs. OSU does it, but OSU also has a national recruiting presence that PSU doesn't yet have (part of the reason Franklin has been pushing for upgrades and more budget). In PA and neighboring states of NJ, MD, NY, DE, WV, and OH, these were the only players in 2021 to finish in the top247 composite at OL:

PA - Nolan Rucci - #16, Wisconsin (bad loss)
MD - Landon Tengwall - #54, PSU
WV - Wyatt Milum, #109, WVU
OH - Ben Christman - #124, OSU
NJ - None
NY - None
DE - None

Thats it. Even Ohio was down in 2021. Shocking to see NJ not have 1. The past cycle was a historically bad cycle for OL in the northeast, and losing Rucci to Wisconsin was a big blow on top of it. PA only had 2 guys finish in the top 800, the other guy being Bruce.

If PSU wants to seriously compete they need to get much better at recruiting OL nationally, or even further regionally than what they are doing now.

Fair enough. That said, I can think to 2 games I watched this week in which both lines absolutely dominated and aren't necessarily hotbeds for O-line talent. I believe I saw Michigan look like an NFL offensive line blasting holes through Ohio State. I guess you would tell me Michigan too recruits wonderful linemen nationally(weird, because they sucked last year). Or, how about Utah(!?!?!) absolutely bit*hing Oregon in the run game like they were a pee wee team. Is Utah a hotbed for O-line talent historically? If the well is drying up in, then go find linemen elsewhere. Surly Minnesota and Wisconsin don't have room for all the big nasty farmboys in the midwest? Maybe this is the one position where we shelve the "star" system for a little bit and simply commit to getting big, physical, tough guys to play at Penn State(2 star or 3 star be damned).

 

[Still in State Colllege]

Whether you believe it is scheme or talent the real problem resides with the coaching staff. If this staff doesn't understand that the great teams all have great OL and DL then there is no help for them.

Have to build from the inside out in P5.

 

[Zone-Blitz]

2017 Recruiting Class:

CJ Thorpe - #89 Nat, transferred out
Mike Miranda - #446 Nat, starting C, IMO not a P5-quality C
Robert Martin - #633 Nat, transferred out
Des Holmes - #868 Nat, never cracked the starting lineup

2018 Recruiting Class:

Rasheed Walker - #65 Nat, 3-year starter
Nana Asiedu - #116 Nat, medically retired
Juice Scruggs - #233 Nat, lost a year+ of development due to the accident
Bryce Effner - #635 Nat, probably not a quality P5 OT

2019 Recruiting Class:

Caedan Wallace - #81 Nat, guard playing out of position at T
Anthony Whigan - #7 JUCO, not a key contributor
Saleem Wormley - #287 Nat, unsure if he will contribute

Thats it. Our OL recruiting from 2017-2019 (the last 3 years of our previous OL coach) was, combined with some bad luck in 2018 class, largely woeful. Losing Asiedu from that class, along with the accident with Scruggs, really set the OL room back a great deal. 2017 was largely a whiff, and 2019 isn't looking much better. Unknown on 2020, though we will find out more next year as Fashanu will likely be your starting LT, and one of the guards will likely have to step up (Achumba, Dawkins?) Recruiting HAS to pick up if PSU wants to compete. We had to rely on a transfer from Harvard to play LG, and he was in over his head at times in conference play.

This is why I am not yet out on Trautwein, although 2021 was a disappointment only bringing in 1 OL in Tengwall (even though I think he has played well in limited time), and Bruce leaving. Maybe one day Bruce might consider a return and make it back on the roster, but I'm not counting on it. Need 2022 with Shelton and Roye (among others) to pan out well. 2023 is looking up with Birchmeier and Barnwell (assuming he move to OT) already on board.

You nailed it. They got to recruit better on the OL

 

[PSUFTG]

The Penn State roster right now has six 4 star OL recruits (according to the ratings on this site) with 3 or more years in the program (not counting any of the 1st and 2nd year guys - who would generally be considered to be in need of some seasoning - and excluding a guy like Asiedu, who is unavailable due to health issues): The six are Walker, Wallace, Scruggs, Whigan, Miranda, and Wormley (Wormley may have some health issues, so maybe the number available is 5).
I am not sure how many programs in the country have 6 or more available 4 star recruits along the offensive line, all with three or more years in the program - but I think it would be hard to find 10-15 in the entire nation. Two examples, Wisconsin has 3 such players. Ohio State has 5 - one of whom was just recently lost for the year due to injury (Ohio State recruited a couple more, who could have been part of this year's team - but are instead now playing in the NFL). Again, Penn State has 6.

And yet, somehow, Penn State has managed to spend an entire year running out not only the most ineffective offensive line at Penn State in the last 40 years, even worse than the heavy sanction years when they were starting backup defensive tackles on the offensive line, but clearly one of the most ineffective in the nation, and a unit that has gotten progressively worse from September to November.
At some point, even if they were all 2 star recruits, you have to be able to line up, with your assignment 2 feet across the line from you, and at least engage them, and not completely whiff on your assignment. Penn State's offensive line has not been able to do that, they really haven't. And what makes it even more disconcerting is that it is every one of the offensive linemen, from Walker, Wallace, Scruggs, Miranda - they all have been guilty, a lot. So it is pretty much impossible to lay the blame on lack of incoming talent, or even at the feet of the individual players. Something, something systemic, has gone horribly wrong, it would appear.

 

[bbrown]

Take a look at our recruiting the position this year and years previous. The staff does not appear to value offensive line play, let's hope that changes. As cool as it is to have the #1QB and #1RB coming in next year, it isn't going to matter if we keep putting guys like WIlson and Miranda in front of them. We really need to start to recruit o-linemen like we have skill position and cornerbacks. Need to get our hands on as many as possible, leave scholarships for them, let them duke it out, then portal the ones that don't make it. In the meantime, we need to bring in 4-6 transfer O-linemen in the off season and tell them them 2-3 spots are up for grabs, may the best man win....rest can portal their fat asses out. Sorry, isn't "start with I love you end with I love you," but you cannot allow Allar to progress the way Hack, Trace, and Clifford have, as is now evident, having four 4star RB's means squat if you can't open holes.I

I completely disagree with that.
We do have a 4* OL coming in with this class.

 

[bbrown]

Fair enough. That said, I can think to 2 games I watched this week in which both lines absolutely dominated and aren't necessarily hotbeds for O-line talent. I believe I saw Michigan look like an NFL offensive line blasting holes through Ohio State. I guess you would tell me Michigan too recruits wonderful linemen nationally(weird, because they sucked last year). Or, how about Utah(!?!?!) absolutely bit*hing Oregon in the run game like they were a pee wee team. Is Utah a hotbed for O-line talent historically? If the well is drying up in, then go find linemen elsewhere. Surly Minnesota and Wisconsin don't have room for all the big nasty farmboys in the midwest? Maybe this is the one position where we shelve the "star" system for a little bit and simply commit to getting big, physical, tough guys to play at Penn State(2 star or 3 star be damned).

Well actually they do. Their last few recruiting classes were filled with 4* and 5* OL. from GA, CA, CO, MA, CT & FL.

 

[Ram20]

I completely disagree with that.
We do have a 4* OL coming in with this class.

We have one? I thought 5 guys played O-line and all 5 of ours were bad this year.

 

[Ram20]

Well actually they do. Their last few recruiting classes were filled with 4* and 5* OL. from GA, CA, CO, MA, CT & FL.

I am agreeing, if Michigan can recruit nationally, why can't we?

Care to comment on Utah piecing together a dominant O-line?

My point was if we need to recruit nationally, then go do it, that is not an excuse. If regionally we can't find Offensive linemen, and for whatever reason national O-linemen don't want to come here, then shift your region to the midwest and go find a couple kids with Wisconsin, Iowa, and Minnesota offers and see if any of them want to head east. Simply not having enough volume of recruits in Pennsylvania is not an excuse.

 

[bbrown]

We have one? I thought 5 guys played O-line and all 5 of ours were bad this year.

Actually we have more than that. Whiggan was a 4*, Wormley was a 4* but hurt this year, Wallace was a 4*, Walker was a 4* Scruggs was a 4*.
So out of starting line only Miranda and Effner were 3*

 

[blion72]

Part of the issue though is that locally on our area OL rankings just haven't been that high; the talent is just not there. Generally it is more difficult for whatever reason to recruit lineman nationally than it is WB, RB, and WRs. OSU does it, but OSU also has a national recruiting presence that PSU doesn't yet have (part of the reason Franklin has been pushing for upgrades and more budget). In PA and neighboring states of NJ, MD, NY, DE, WV, and OH, these were the only players in 2021 to finish in the top247 composite at OL:

PA - Nolan Rucci - #16, Wisconsin (bad loss)
MD - Landon Tengwall - #54, PSU
WV - Wyatt Milum, #109, WVU
OH - Ben Christman - #124, OSU
NJ - None
NY - None
DE - None

Thats it. Even Ohio was down in 2021. Shocking to see NJ not have 1. The past cycle was a historically bad cycle for OL in the northeast, and losing Rucci to Wisconsin was a big blow on top of it. PA only had 2 guys finish in the top 800, the other guy being Bruce.

If PSU wants to seriously compete they need to get much better at recruiting OL nationally, or even further regionally than what they are doing now.

to be fair, these numbers are the # in the overall player rankings, so Rucci was not the #16 OL player, he was the #16 overall player. an OL player who was #250 player is probably a 4* OL player. in terms of * ratings we are likely better than the Iowa and Wisconsin OL players. that is take the entire current roster of players * ratings and compare the avg and PSU is in line with other teams. they are not getting results based on the * ratings. Not saying we shouldn't be recruiting better. but we should be getting more from what we have.

 

[Ram20]

Actually we have more than that. Whiggan was a 4*, Wormley was a 4* but hurt this year, Wallace was a 4*, Walker was a 4* Scruggs was a 4*.
So out of starting line only Miranda and Effner were 3*

So maybe for linemen it isn't as much about stars?

 

[bbrown]

I am agreeing, if Michigan can recruit nationally, why can't we?

Care to comment on Utah piecing together a dominant O-line?

My point was if we need to recruit nationally, then go do it, that is not an excuse. If regionally we can't find Offensive linemen, and for whatever reason national O-linemen don't want to come here, then shift your region to the midwest and go find a couple kids with Wisconsin, Iowa, and Minnesota offers and see if any of them want to head east. Simply not having enough volume of recruits in Pennsylvania is not an excuse.

Not really.

 

[Ram20]

Not really.

Cool, so what precisely would be the fix for a relative lack of high end talent in our traditional region for O-linemen and should a coaching staff as compensated as this one be able to overcome talent deficiencies? Again, I would take 4-6 linemen in the portal this year and have them fight for 2-3 spots, winner determined by most wins one on one with our d-linemen. Grade it and chart it like you do QB completion percentage in practice. Tell the losers they get to portal out(5 years ago you could pull their scholarship. Before everyone gets sensitive to that, that was normal operating procedure not only in football but in non-revenue sports when I was playing. 50 players on the team, only 12 scholarships to go around), you play well, you keep your full/partial scholarship.) I think we need to save spots for more O-linemen recruits each year considering our terrible record of development, medicals, transfers, etc. Like the QB position, gotta start stacking volume and finding 5 you can count on.

 

[bbrown]

Cool, so what precisely would be the fix for a relative lack of high end talent in our traditional region for O-linemen and should a coaching staff as compensated as this one be able to overcome talent deficiencies? Again, I would take 4-6 linemen in the portal this year and have them fight for 2-3 spots, winner determined by most wins one on one with our d-linemen. Grade it and chart it like you do QB completion percentage in practice. Tell the losers they get to portal out(5 years ago you could pull their scholarship. Before everyone gets sensitive to that, that was normal operating procedure not only in football but in non-revenue sports when I was playing. 50 players on the team, only 12 scholarships to go around), you play well, you keep your full/partial scholarship.) I think we need to save spots for more O-linemen recruits each year considering our terrible record of development, medicals, transfers, etc. Like the QB position, gotta start stacking volume and finding 5 you can count on.

I have no idea.
I'm hoping another year of Traut will fix some of that but we'll see.
And yea I would look hard into the Portal for both a C and OT.

 

[FTLPSU]

2017 Recruiting Class:

CJ Thorpe - #89 Nat, transferred out
Mike Miranda - #446 Nat, starting C, IMO not a P5-quality C
Robert Martin - #633 Nat, transferred out
Des Holmes - #868 Nat, never cracked the starting lineup

2018 Recruiting Class:

Rasheed Walker - #65 Nat, 3-year starter
Nana Asiedu - #116 Nat, medically retired
Juice Scruggs - #233 Nat, lost a year+ of development due to the accident
Bryce Effner - #635 Nat, probably not a quality P5 OT

2019 Recruiting Class:

Caedan Wallace - #81 Nat, guard playing out of position at T
Anthony Whigan - #7 JUCO, not a key contributor
Saleem Wormley - #287 Nat, unsure if he will contribute

Thats it. Our OL recruiting from 2017-2019 (the last 3 years of our previous OL coach) was, combined with some bad luck in 2018 class, largely woeful. Losing Asiedu from that class, along with the accident with Scruggs, really set the OL room back a great deal. 2017 was largely a whiff, and 2019 isn't looking much better. Unknown on 2020, though we will find out more next year as Fashanu will likely be your starting LT, and one of the guards will likely have to step up (Achumba, Dawkins?) Recruiting HAS to pick up if PSU wants to compete. We had to rely on a transfer from Harvard to play LG, and he was in over his head at times in conference play.

This is why I am not yet out on Trautwein, although 2021 was a disappointment only bringing in 1 OL in Tengwall (even though I think he has played well in limited time), and Bruce leaving. Maybe one day Bruce might consider a return and make it back on the roster, but I'm not counting on it. Need 2022 with Shelton and Roye (among others) to pan out well. 2023 is looking up with Birchmeier and Barnwell (assuming he move to OT) already on board.

Great Analysis and Breakdown! OBJECTIVE-QUANTITATIVE

 

[McCringleberry]

2017 Recruiting Class:

CJ Thorpe - #89 Nat, transferred out
Mike Miranda - #446 Nat, starting C, IMO not a P5-quality C
Robert Martin - #633 Nat, transferred out
Des Holmes - #868 Nat, never cracked the starting lineup

2018 Recruiting Class:

Rasheed Walker - #65 Nat, 3-year starter
Nana Asiedu - #116 Nat, medically retired
Juice Scruggs - #233 Nat, lost a year+ of development due to the accident
Bryce Effner - #635 Nat, probably not a quality P5 OT

2019 Recruiting Class:

Caedan Wallace - #81 Nat, guard playing out of position at T
Anthony Whigan - #7 JUCO, not a key contributor
Saleem Wormley - #287 Nat, unsure if he will contribute

Thats it. Our OL recruiting from 2017-2019 (the last 3 years of our previous OL coach) was, combined with some bad luck in 2018 class, largely woeful. Losing Asiedu from that class, along with the accident with Scruggs, really set the OL room back a great deal. 2017 was largely a whiff, and 2019 isn't looking much better. Unknown on 2020, though we will find out more next year as Fashanu will likely be your starting LT, and one of the guards will likely have to step up (Achumba, Dawkins?) Recruiting HAS to pick up if PSU wants to compete. We had to rely on a transfer from Harvard to play LG, and he was in over his head at times in conference play.

This is why I am not yet out on Trautwein, although 2021 was a disappointment only bringing in 1 OL in Tengwall (even though I think he has played well in limited time), and Bruce leaving. Maybe one day Bruce might consider a return and make it back on the roster, but I'm not counting on it. Need 2022 with Shelton and Roye (among others) to pan out well. 2023 is looking up with Birchmeier and Barnwell (assuming he move to OT) already on board.

When I look at that list I see a lack of depth and results that aren't as good as our recruiting at most other position groups. But it hardly screams major lack of talent either.

Every school in the country wanted Walker and just about every school would have taken Wallace. Scruggs was wanted by OSU. Not as sure about the details of Wormley's recruitment, but he was rated similarly to Scruggs. Miranda is the type of recruit that make up the majority of the lines for every B1G team except for OSU and UM (and maybe Wisconsin in recent years). Effner, Martin, and Holmes may have been reaching a bit, but plenty of B1G teams have similar caliber recruits on their lines. And Thorpe transferred out only after he got passed over on the depth chart - not like the team got robbed of him playing (like it did with Nana, which I'll give you was a big blow).

So yeah, better recruiting will of course help, but it seems obvious to me there's something else there. Franklin has not had a good line yet. His best was probably 2019 and I think if we're generous we could call that a slightly above average P5 line. It's also not like our only issue is guys getting blown off the ball. There's also constant missed assignments and repeated struggles with stunts and slants. All of that points to me as the issue being endemic to Franklin and the way he approaches, teaches, and develops line play.

 

[mrmk5110]

I am agreeing, if Michigan can recruit nationally, why can't we?

Care to comment on Utah piecing together a dominant O-line?

My point was if we need to recruit nationally, then go do it, that is not an excuse. If regionally we can't find Offensive linemen, and for whatever reason national O-linemen don't want to come here, then shift your region to the midwest and go find a couple kids with Wisconsin, Iowa, and Minnesota offers and see if any of them want to head east. Simply not having enough volume of recruits in Pennsylvania is not an excuse.

Agreed with this, and you are starting to see the recruiting services give the Midwestern OL more respect in the rankings lately. Regardless you have to be good at recruiting outside your home state to be successful. Even Michigan had only 1 of their 5 starters actually from the state of Michigan.

Having 3 different OC with 3 different systems sure hasnt helped either (might be the other big reason), which is prob the biggest explanation for the success of a team like Utah's OL (although they have a couple of 4 stars starting for them as well, so it's not like they're devoid of star talent).

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

This is where Franklin needs to be aggressive in the portal. Get a few fully developed big bodies into the program for a year or two. Veterans who can plug into the lineup or at least push the young guys to get better.

 

[Shadow99]

This is where Franklin needs to be aggressive in the portal. Get a few fully developed big bodies into the program for a year or two. Veterans who can plug into the lineup or at least push the young guys to get better.

...in support of your point, look at the impact that Tangelo and Ebiketie had for the DL this year...

 

[Tin man]

I think Scrugg will be a very good center and I think Wallace moves to one of the guard position since he was recruited at guard but moved to tackle out of necessity. Tengwall at one of the tackle position so that leaves the need for someone to step up at one guard and tackle spot. Curious how Wormley, Achumba are progressing at guard and Christ progressing at tackle.

 

[MacNit]

2017 Recruiting Class:

CJ Thorpe - #89 Nat, transferred out
Mike Miranda - #446 Nat, starting C, IMO not a P5-quality C
Robert Martin - #633 Nat, transferred out
Des Holmes - #868 Nat, never cracked the starting lineup

2018 Recruiting Class:

Rasheed Walker - #65 Nat, 3-year starter
Nana Asiedu - #116 Nat, medically retired
Juice Scruggs - #233 Nat, lost a year+ of development due to the accident
Bryce Effner - #635 Nat, probably not a quality P5 OT

2019 Recruiting Class:

Caedan Wallace - #81 Nat, guard playing out of position at T
Anthony Whigan - #7 JUCO, not a key contributor
Saleem Wormley - #287 Nat, unsure if he will contribute

Thats it. Our OL recruiting from 2017-2019 (the last 3 years of our previous OL coach) was, combined with some bad luck in 2018 class, largely woeful. Losing Asiedu from that class, along with the accident with Scruggs, really set the OL room back a great deal. 2017 was largely a whiff, and 2019 isn't looking much better. Unknown on 2020, though we will find out more next year as Fashanu will likely be your starting LT, and one of the guards will likely have to step up (Achumba, Dawkins?) Recruiting HAS to pick up if PSU wants to compete. We had to rely on a transfer from Harvard to play LG, and he was in over his head at times in conference play.

This is why I am not yet out on Trautwein, although 2021 was a disappointment only bringing in 1 OL in Tengwall (even though I think he has played well in limited time), and Bruce leaving. Maybe one day Bruce might consider a return and make it back on the roster, but I'm not counting on it. Need 2022 with Shelton and Roye (among others) to pan out well. 2023 is looking up with Birchmeier and Barnwell (assuming he move to OT) already on board.

How long do we have to wait to get an OLine that can push the pile? Is 8 years not long enough? Get tbe right coaching and hold people accountable, we have enough talent to turn around OLine in one year?

 

[nepalion]

Take a look at our recruiting the position this year and years previous. The staff does not appear to value offensive line play, let's hope that changes. As cool as it is to have the #1QB and #1RB coming in next year, it isn't going to matter if we keep putting guys like WIlson and Miranda in front of them. We really need to start to recruit o-linemen like we have skill position and cornerbacks. Need to get our hands on as many as possible, leave scholarships for them, let them duke it out, then portal the ones that don't make it. In the meantime, we need to bring in 4-6 transfer O-linemen in the off season and tell them them 2-3 spots are up for grabs, may the best man win....rest can portal their fat asses out. Sorry, isn't "start with I love you end with I love you," but you cannot allow Allar to progress the way Hack, Trace, and Clifford have, as is now evident, having four 4star RB's means squat if you can't open holes.

i have been concerned for years that franklin does not value OL recruits. OL is imo most important position group of any football team. and by the way, why doesn't our idiot of a head coach know this? i have to tell him this? this discussion board has to tell him this? cmonnnnnnnnnnn......