National Duals - where does the $ go?

[Mattski]

I'm genuinely curious and am not finding much for specifics.
This was touted as an unprecedented event due to the financial "purses" involved but where does the money go? Do the athletes get a share? Coaches? Just put into the wrestling team fiscal budget?
While I don't really think the athletes are likely seeing any of it, in this day of NIL it got me wondering... is there anything noticeably different now that we took 2nd and a 150k purse?

 

[JoeBagobagels]

I'm genuinely curious and am not finding much for specifics.
This was touted as an unprecedented event due to the financial "purses" involved but where does the money go? Do the athletes get a share? Coaches? Just put into the wrestling team fiscal budget?
While I don't really think the athletes are likely seeing any of it, in this day of NIL it got me wondering... is there anything noticeably different now that we took 2nd and a 150k purse?

No idea, but one reason why some PSU folk are somewhat negative on this tournament is this issue. To me someone wants to promote this for their bottom line, not " to grow the sport". Paycom's CEO is a big OkSU booster if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Corby2]

No idea, but one reason why some PSU folk are somewhat negative on this tournament is this issue. To me someone wants to promote this for their bottom line, not " to grow the sport". Paycom's CEO is a big OkSU booster if I'm not mistaken.

He's the founder of paycom and is a billionaire he is the reason Taylor is at Oklahoma st

 

[StuckAsAnon]

No idea, but one reason why some PSU folk are somewhat negative on this tournament is this issue. To me someone wants to promote this for their bottom line, not " to grow the sport". Paycom's CEO is a big OkSU booster if I'm not mistaken.

I’m OK with that. Let’s be realistic…this isn’t getting done if the sponsor is just losing money on it. It’s not the WNBA with a sugar daddy propping them up.

I would hope that the money earned is somehow earmarked before hand….like 50% of it goes to athletes as a NIL deal and the other 50% goes into the wrestling fund or something. I’d have no problem if the entire purse went to the wrestlers, but not sure that works legally. It would be interesting to find out where it’s going.

 

[JoeBagobagels]

I’m OK with that. Let’s be realistic…this isn’t getting done if the sponsor is just losing money on it. It’s not the WNBA with a sugar daddy propping them up.

I would hope that the money earned is somehow earmarked before hand….like 50% of it goes to athletes as a NIL deal and the other 50% goes into the wrestling fund or something. I’d have no problem if the entire purse went to the wrestlers, but not sure that works legally. It would be interesting to find out where it’s going.

Welllllll, this is essentially helping OkST more than anyone else. Just saying.

 

[StuckAsAnon]

Welllllll, this is essentially helping OkST more than anyone else. Just saying.

The Paycom dude is already a billionaire. It’s not like him pulling in a couple hundred grand on this event is going to be making that much of a difference.

 

[sdvike]

I’m OK with that. Let’s be realistic…this isn’t getting done if the sponsor is just losing money on it. It’s not the WNBA with a sugar daddy propping them up.

I would hope that the money earned is somehow earmarked before hand….like 50% of it goes to athletes as a NIL deal and the other 50% goes into the wrestling fund or something. I’d have no problem if the entire purse went to the wrestlers, but not sure that works legally. It would be interesting to find out where it’s going.

Im just guessing but believe Paycom (CEO) does have some interest in promoting the sport but would have the most interest in growing Oklahoma St wrestling. I think he would take some hit in return for recruits and bringing Cowboy wrestling to the forefront. I was kinda surprised they didn't sell that out with Cowboy fans so maybe that factors into its future. But I think Brands said something about it being back next year for sure and hopefully years after that.

 

[Cobra Kaiowa]

Im just guessing but believe Paycom (CEO) does have some interest in promoting the sport but would have the most interest in growing Oklahoma St wrestling. I think he would take some hit in return for recruits and bringing Cowboy wrestling to the forefront. I was kinda surprised they didn't sell that out with Cowboy fans so maybe that factors into its future. But I think Brands said something about it being back next year for sure and hopefully years after that.

Dude said it would be back next year, same location, during interview @149 v tOSU.

 

[Corby2]

Im just guessing but believe Paycom (CEO) does have some interest in promoting the sport but would have the most interest in growing Oklahoma St wrestling. I think he would take some hit in return for recruits and bringing Cowboy wrestling to the forefront. I was kinda surprised they didn't sell that out with Cowboy fans so maybe that factors into its future. But I think Brands said something about it being back next year for sure and hopefully years after that.

He wants Oklahoma wrestling as a state to be good. He was the one behind building d2 central Oklahoma into a powerhouse. He was also involved in bringing Lou to Oklahoma. Now Oklahoma st is his baby but he's been involved all over Oklahoma giving to the sport

 

[sdvike]

He wants Oklahoma wrestling as a state to be good. He was the one behind building d2 central Oklahoma into a powerhouse. He was also involved in bringing Lou to Oklahoma. Now Oklahoma st is his baby but he's been involved all over Oklahoma giving to the sport

Is it only wrestling or does he also invest in other sports?

 

[Mattski]

I’m OK with that. Let’s be realistic…this isn’t getting done if the sponsor is just losing money on it. It’s not the WNBA with a sugar daddy propping them up.

I would hope that the money earned is somehow earmarked before hand….like 50% of it goes to athletes as a NIL deal and the other 50% goes into the wrestling fund or something. I’d have no problem if the entire purse went to the wrestlers, but not sure that works legally. It would be interesting to find out where it’s going.

Agreed. I was honestly surprised with how open the promotion was with regards to the purse along with Brands mentioning it as the main reason they came.
A split as you said would be a cool deal, hopefully that's how it's handled.

 

[Corby2]

Is it only wrestling or does he also invest in other sports?

I believe just wrestling but I'm not 100% on that

 

[StuckAsAnon]

Dude said it would be back next year, same location, during interview @149 v tOSU.

Yep, that’s what he said. Nov 14 will be the finals if I remember correctly.

Would be nice if it moved around, Omaha, Coralville, Cincinnati, etc, but with the OSU sugar daddy paying the bills, that’s unlikely.

 

[Corby2]

Yep, that’s what he said. Nov 14 will be the finals if I remember correctly.

Would be nice if it moved around, Omaha, Coralville, Cincinnati, etc, but with the OSU sugar daddy paying the bills, that’s unlikely.

He wants to grow Oklahoma wrestling it's gonna be staying in Tulsa.

 

[ScottishSteel]

I'm genuinely curious and am not finding much for specifics.
This was touted as an unprecedented event due to the financial "purses" involved but where does the money go? Do the athletes get a share? Coaches? Just put into the wrestling team fiscal budget?
While I don't really think the athletes are likely seeing any of it, in this day of NIL it got me wondering... is there anything noticeably different now that we took 2nd and a 150k purse?

My understanding is it was up to the individual schools how they want to utilize their winnings; it can be given directly to the wrestlers, used to flip a commercial flight to a charter flight, spent on a new mat, however each institution decides

 

[manatree]

No idea, but one reason why some PSU folk are somewhat negative on this tournament is this issue. To me someone wants to promote this for their bottom line, not " to grow the sport". Paycom's CEO is a big OkSU booster if I'm not mistaken.

I still don’t understand how an event that is designed to give money to the top and wealthiest programs is supposed to grow the sport. I have no problem with the payment bonuses, just don’t try and tell me that this event is designed to grow the sport.

 

[MSU158]

I still don’t understand how an event that is designed to give money to the top and wealthiest programs is supposed to grow the sport. I have no problem with the payment bonuses, just don’t try and tell me that this event is designed to grow the sport.

Short of the NCAA Tournament and maybe B1G's, it is BY FAR the best event to watch, and that was without PSU even being there. It may not funnel money to the have nots, but it was a GREAT event to watch and I am sure it was even better in person.

I know Carl is against National Duals, so of course every fanboi parrots the same thing, but it absolutely is something that, if ran correctly, can be a major postive for the sport....

 

[maxpain]

I still don’t understand how an event that is designed to give money to the top and wealthiest programs is supposed to grow the sport. I have no problem with the payment bonuses, just don’t try and tell me that this event is designed to grow the sport.

It gets teams to show up. It gets teams to wrestle their big dogs in early season duals. It makes the big individual match ups happen. It generates a ton of publicity.

If you can’t see how that grows wrestling then I don’t know what to tell ya.

 

[manatree]

Short of the NCAA Tournament and maybe B1G's, it is BY FAR the best event to watch, and that was without PSU even being there. It may not funnel money to the have nots, but it was a GREAT event to watch and I am sure it was even better in person.

I know Carl is against National Duals, so of course every fanboi parrots the same thing, but it absolutely is something that, if ran correctly, can be a major postive for the sport....

It was a great event to watch for wrestling fans that are willing to spend two days watching and pay for a Flo subscription, but you still haven’t explained how this grows the sport.

 

[manatree]

It gets teams to show up. It gets teams to wrestle their big dogs in early season duals. It makes the big individual match ups happen. It generates a ton of publicity.

If you can’t see how that grows wrestling then I don’t know what to tell ya.

It generates a ton publicity for the top teams among diehard wrestling fans. For the casual fan or lower, it was one match on ESPN2.

It was a great event for the top teams and diehard wrestling fans. I see its impact on growing the sport outside of the top teams and diehard fans to be minimal at best.

Growing the sport is supporting smaller programs, finding ways to start new programs, helping to financially support public high school programs, supporting girls and womens programs, etc.

 

[MSU158]

It was a great event to watch for wrestling fans that are willing to spend two days watching and pay for a Flo subscription, but you still haven’t explained how this grows the sport.

First off, anything positive can't do anything but help. With that said, it has been mentioned over and over again that a dual format is infinitely easier to get the "passer-by" fan to maybe hold interest. A multi day individual tournament ABSOLUTELY SUCKS for that. Hell, they suck for the die hard families that travel and sit around all day long to watch a handful of specific matches. Quite frankly, a major part of it sucks A LOT for the wrestlers themselves.

Duals promote a team vs team environment were fans of specific schools can watch for an hour or 2 and clearly see a team winning and losing without necessarily having to fully grasp the scoring in each match. Hell, I can tell you first hand that the environment for Team State in Michigan( Dual Format) is inifinitely louder and there is a much more avid fanbase than the Individual Tournament.

I know the "old hats" are so locked into the current format that the tournament in March is all they care about. But, a National Dual Championship has so much more potential and is inarguably more appealing to a casual fan...

 

[maxpain]

It generates a ton publicity for the top teams among diehard wrestling fans. For the casual fan or lower, it was one match on ESPN2.

It was a great event for the top teams and diehard wrestling fans. I see its impact on growing the sport outside of the top teams and diehard fans to be minimal at best.

That’s just wrong, Casual fans care too. And all fans like big matchups. The past few years it has seemed like for every big individual matchup another two would fall apart. That didn’t happen which is astonishing for an early season event.

Casual fans, such as fans of schools will tune into dual meets more than tournaments. It’s much easier to watch a dual than it is to skip around different mats and find all the Nebraska or Iowa guys competing at a tournament. Even some diehards don’t want to spend the time on trackwrestling to see what mats guys are on and then find that mat on Flo. Plus this had a very high production value.

Me thinks you are looking at this through a certain blue and white lense… PSU fans love nothing more than to piss in other people’s Cheerios.

 

[manatree]

First off, anything positive can't do anything but help. With that said, it has been mentioned over and over again that a dual format is infinitely easier to get the "passer-by" fan to maybe hold interest. A multi day individual tournament ABSOLUTELY SUCKS for that. Hell, they suck for the die hard families that travel and sit around all day long to watch a handful of specific matches. Quite frankly, a major part of it sucks A LOT for the wrestlers themselves.

Was this not a multi day event?

I would argue that a larger program scheduling a smaller program, especially at the smaller program’s gym, does more to grow the sport outside the top echelon. I think schools scheduling quad meets with two big programs and two smaller programs would be a great way to grow the sport outside of the top teams and the diehard fans.

 

[maxpain]

Growing the sport is supporting smaller programs, finding ways to start new programs, helping to financially support public high school programs, supporting girls and womens programs, etc.

That’s short sighted. More fans and more big events help smaller schools too. Plus, Arkansas Little Rock just got to compete on this stage with the big dogs, you don’t think that helps them?

 

[manatree]

Me thinks you are looking at this through a certain blue and white lense… PSU fans love nothing more than to piss in other people’s Cheerios.

The only blue and white opinion that I have about any ‘National’ dual are the efforts in trying to make any ‘National’ dual the method for determining the team championship.

Would I have liked Penn State to participate, yes. Do I think Penn State being there or not being there helps grow the sport outside of the top programs? No.

 

[MSU158]

Was this not a multi day event?

I would argue that a larger program scheduling a smaller program, especially at the smaller program’s gym, does more to grow the sport outside the top echelon. I think schools scheduling quad meets with two big programs and two smaller programs would be a great way to grow the sport outside of the top teams and the diehard fans.

I am talking about the televised aspect more than just ONLY the people that actually show up and attend. I am thinking way past local or even regional. Just using the term National Championship peeks people's interests. Meanwhile, bouncing around 8 mats to try to find a match or 2 with a kid wrestling from your school, most certainly does not. It SUCKS for diehards, let alone a casual fan. A dual format is inarguably easier for someone looking to watch something for a couple of hours and all they have to do is click a couple buttons on FLO, or MUCH better, just flip on ESPN or ESPN2.

Obviously, 1 year isn't going to do much. But, if they can keep this going and advertise properly, it absolutely has the potential to bring a huge event to the forefront. With that, it is so much more viewer friendly to everyone but the diehards...

 

[manatree]

That’s short sighted. More fans and more big events help smaller schools too. Plus, Arkansas Little Rock just got to compete on this stage with the big dogs, you don’t think that helps them?

So you’re saying that Penn State not being there helped Little Rock? I’m only half joking.

I think it was a great event but just don’t think it helps much to grow the sport.

Everyone else here thinks it does both.

Neither of us is going to change our position.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

The Paycom NDs is primarily designed to grow and bolster wrestling in Oklahoma. That's Richison's stated goal. Any other benefits to participants are a secondary consideration.

WVU declined its lottery invite. They competed against local Glenville State to grow the sport in their home state. They may've figured that a better use of their time and travel money, considering they may not have shared any of the purse and that certain participants were publicly accused of attemped poaching of Ty Watters.

I agree existing wrestling fanatics benefited, especially those who subscribe to Flo. But a plethora of boring matches to find the exciting needle in the haystack doesn't grow the sport. The newbie won't even be able to find those match ups.

I don't see how WVU attending the Paycom National Duals vs competing against Glenville State would've grown the sport in WV more. I think they made the right choice staying in their home state.

 

[manatree]

I don't see how WVU attending the Paycom National Duals vs competing against Glenville State would've grown the sport in WV more. I think they made the right choice staying in their home state.

Exactly! I guess there is another like minded one here. Although I was a HWT that never had to cut weight.

I think Iowa scheduling Bellarmine does more to grow the sport than their participation in Tulsa. Ohio State scheduling Bellarmine is even better because it is only 200 miles from Louisville to Columbus, and easier for their fans to travel. It would be a huge move for the Buckeyes to go to Bellarmine, perhaps as part of a two for one deal.

 

[MSU158]

Go figure. PSU fanbois are here parroting Cael's National Dual talking points. Should anyone be surprised???

Also, "grow the sport" means the ENTIRE sport vs. traveling to a team that is only in DI for wrestling and somehow hoping that the best teams of a fringe sport somehow traveling to them is all of a sudden going to get more people in that area to follow, let alone actually support that wrestling team..

 

[maxpain]

Exactly! I guess there is another like minded one here. Although I was a HWT that never had to cut weight.

I think Iowa scheduling Bellarmine does more to grow the sport than their participation in Tulsa. Ohio State scheduling Bellarmine is even better because it is only 200 miles from Louisville to Columbus, and easier for their fans to travel. It would be a huge move for the Buckeyes to go to Bellarmine, perhaps as part of a two for one deal.

That’s crazy talk. What does more for the college football, Ohio State scheduling Youngstown State week 1 or Ohio State scheduling Texas?

If that doesn’t work for you because it’s a mainstream sport, then change it to something less popular and the point still stands. High profile events where the best play the best creates more of a buzz than a big dog beating the piss out of a small school.

 

[TheREALSpooner]

I still don’t understand how an event that is designed to give money to the top and wealthiest programs is supposed to grow the sport. I have no problem with the payment bonuses, just don’t try and tell me that this event is designed to grow the sport.

Promotion is a thing. This was a time some eyes went on wrestling--including national TV coverage by a major network--when it normally isn't. That said, is it more self-serving than being "designed" to grow the sport? Sure, I can buy that.

Anyway, I'd assume Iowa's winnings will go towards revenue sharing next year.

 

[Hawkapottomos Rex]

Was this not a multi day event?

I would argue that a larger program scheduling a smaller program, especially at the smaller program’s gym, does more to grow the sport outside the top echelon. I think schools scheduling quad meets with two big programs and two smaller programs would be a great way to grow the sport outside of the top teams and the diehard fans.

How about inviting four lower tier schools with random draw or the top finishers from lower divisions to give them a big stage to get their asses kicked.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

How about inviting four lower tier schools with random draw or the top finishers from lower divisions to give them a big stage to get their asses kicked.

You mean like poached Little Rock?

 

[TarpHawk1]

As a wrestling fan, it was a great tourney to watch. It was far more enjoyable than watching the Luther Open. I'm glad the dude funded it, and I'm glad Iowa participated, and I hope it continues. I don't care where the money goes, and I would not be a particularly good spokesperson for explaining how it grows the sport of wrestling. But it grew my interest in the sport of wrestling during the month of November.

 

[sdvike]

To generate more interest other than the die hards, I think ESPN would need to get more involved in it and would need to rotate around, not just Paycom in Oklahoma event. Maybe add 8 more teams and have the higher seed host early rounds and the final four meet up somewhere determined ahead of time every year.

 

[maxpain]

I thought this year was the perfect set up. Hope they keep it exactly the same.

 

[grapplefan]

As a wrestling fan, it was a great tourney to watch. It was far more enjoyable than watching the Luther Open. I'm glad the dude funded it, and I'm glad Iowa participated, and I hope it continues. I don't care where the money goes, and I would not be a particularly good spokesperson for explaining how it grows the sport of wrestling. But it grew my interest in the sport of wrestling during the month of November.

Then only thing it grew with me is a fervent desire for Iowa to kick tOSU's and OSU's butts, particularly in March and April.

 

[Hawkfan1986]

So you’re saying that Penn State not being there helped Little Rock? I’m only half joking.

I think it was a great event but just don’t think it helps much to grow the sport.

Everyone else here thinks it does both.

Neither of us is going to change our position.

The finals were covered on espn. How often is wrestling given a prime time spot on tv? Any coverage of the sport helps grow it. Hell just about every body who gives a damn about wrestling has at least brought it up to me.

IMO youre being obtuse to steal a line from one of my favorite movies ever, Shawshank.

 

[Corby2]

The finals were covered on espn. How often is wrestling given a prime time spot on tv? Any coverage of the sport helps grow it. Hell just about every body who gives a damn about wrestling has at least brought it up to me.

IMO youre being obtuse to steal a line from one of my favorite movies ever, Shawshank.

Iowa vs Iowa st will be ESPN this year