Nebraska Dual

chasepollard

Heisman
Nov 25, 2005
92,465
13,452
48
What can we realistically expect from Facundo and Zack at March? Both are struggling to finish or score TDs against top 10 guys. If that’s the measuring point, both will be blood round guys at best.

I know we have better wrestling minds here: what can happen to these two to improve from now to March? Cause it feels like we are trying to teach old horse new tricks.
Facundo isn’t far off, imo. He’s just isntfinishing quick and getting stuck in spots that end stale.

Tonight, he tried to keep position that would allow him to score, and it got him scored on.

Ryder, the blueprint is out. He was not going to get his undertook for the slide by…completely planned against and he didn’t have a good backup solution.

I think it gets figured out by March. But it’s sure hard to keep from wondering where they end up.
 

FourCornersCowboy

All-Conference
Nov 3, 2006
25,251
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113
Facundo isn’t far off, imo. He’s just isntfinishing quick and getting stuck in spots that end stale.

Tonight, he tried to keep position that would allow him to score, and it got him scored on.

Ryder, the blueprint is out. He was not going to get his undertook for the slide by…completely planned against and he didn’t have a good backup solution.

I think it gets figured out by March. But it’s sure hard to keep from wondering where they end up.
Pretty spot on.
 

chasepollard

Heisman
Nov 25, 2005
92,465
13,452
48
I agree with this in regard to Facundo. I worry more about Ryder. Facundo shows offense and just needs to finish. Ryder has no offense and until he develops some, we are limited at 184.
You’re not wrong in what you’re seeing.

I’ll take a beer bet that another money attack shows up in the next month.

His D is pretty much top tier. He’s having to figure out how to score when he’s never had to.
 

newguy123

All-Conference
Feb 5, 2020
1,271
2,084
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You’re not wrong in what you’re seeing.

I’ll take a beer bet that another money attack shows up in the next month.

His D is pretty much top tier. He’s having to figure out how to score when he’s never had to.
Yeah, is he just used to strongarming people into a takedown? Because his hand fighting and tie up game looks so powerful… but then leg attacks are almost nonexistent. There’s just no way he’s made it this far with only upper body attacks.
 

Okie_Pat

All-Conference
Feb 3, 2022
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I'm glad you said something about the decision to cut Taylor with a minute to go in the 2nd period. Why? Why not try to get a minute of riding time, a turn, and/or a ride-out? Potentially lost two points there.
This and Landon differed choice in ride outs and I feel like whoever went bottom first was going to win bc riding time was like nothing. It's easier to get the escape than hold em down. Just wasn't sure about strategy there.
 
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Okie_Pat

All-Conference
Feb 3, 2022
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Vega has to stay in the lineup. He's earned the spot and I don't think Jamison can do another year at 141. The results just aren't there come March.

Both fellows at 174 & 184 are wrestling up and although both are undersized I think currently Facundo shows a lot more promise come March than Ryder. I'm almost at the point with Ryder to let Thompson get some time in the lineup.
 

chasepollard

Heisman
Nov 25, 2005
92,465
13,452
48
Vega has to stay in the lineup. He's earned the spot and I don't think Jamison can do another year at 141. The results just aren't there come March.

Both fellows at 174 & 184 are wrestling up and although both are undersized I think currently Facundo shows a lot more promise come March than Ryder. I'm almost at the point with Ryder to let Thompson get some time in the lineup.
I’m good with letting BT get on the mat some. I think people are short-sighted on Ryder.

He’s a World Silver Medalist and the way he accomplished that is being planned against. He will figure out a way.
 

OAMC99

All-Conference
Mar 25, 2002
4,651
1,308
113
I think some might forget Ryder is a freshman. There’s a lot of room for improvement, but to rule him out entirely at this stage is silly. There’s a lot to like about him.
I think he is a going to be a solid wrestler. Not down on him. Seems like a great kid. The problem is the competition. To beat Penn State we have to have almost at minimum a Top 3-5 guy at every weight. I don't see it with Ryder. Maybe he could get there eventually? I think we will recruit over him. You cannot have a .500 or losing record in this starting lineup. We don't have time for that much development if we are gonna win #35. Penn State is reloading at an insane pace.
 

osufanatic4life

All-Conference
Jul 17, 2005
7,285
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72
I think he is a going to be a solid wrestler. Not down on him. Seems like a great kid. The problem is the competition. To beat Penn State we have to have almost at minimum a Top 3-5 guy at every weight. I don't see it with Ryder. Maybe he could get there eventually? I think we will recruit over him. You cannot have a .500 or losing record in this starting lineup. We don't have time for that much development if we are gonna win #35. Penn State is reloading at an insane pace.
I see your point. I agree that you can't have a .500 or losing record and start if we want to beat PSU.
Counterpoint - He was one transfer portal acquisition away from likely starting at PSU this year.
 
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OAMC99

All-Conference
Mar 25, 2002
4,651
1,308
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Vega has to stay in the lineup. He's earned the spot and I don't think Jamison can do another year at 141. The results just aren't there come March.

Both fellows at 174 & 184 are wrestling up and although both are undersized I think currently Facundo shows a lot more promise come March than Ryder. I'm almost at the point with Ryder to let Thompson get some time in the lineup.
Pat I agree on all of your takes here. But we're saying Vega has to stay in the lineup because he's the best wrestler at 141 by far, right? What about the fact that we can't win the team national championship this year? That's the only reason I wouldn't hate a redshirt. Does that make me a total wuss?

Facundo needs to be at 165 where I think he'd be really good. He gets to legs, he just can't finish his shots at 174.

I don't know what to say about Ryder. If he wasn't such a highly ranked recruit with the resume he has, we'd be calling for a replacement. How many takedowns does he have in 12 matches? Less than 5? How much better is he going to get?
 
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OAMC99

All-Conference
Mar 25, 2002
4,651
1,308
113
I see your point. I agree that you can't have a .500 or losing record and start if we want to beat PSU.
Counterpoint - He was one transfer portal acquisition away from likely starting at PSU this year.
Touche. Okay let's ask this question? What is the minimum ranking we need from every weight before we start discussing replacements? It's not personal at all. Just business to get #35. 10th or better? Is it crazy to say I think it needs to be 5th or better to catch Penn State???
 

osufanatic4life

All-Conference
Jul 17, 2005
7,285
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72
Touche. Okay let's ask this question? What is the minimum ranking we need from every weight before we start discussing replacements? It's not personal at all. Just business to get #35. 10th or better? Is it crazy to say I think it needs to be 5th or better to catch Penn State???
I get it. I also don't think it's crazy to say that Ryder has the tools to potentially make adjustments to get to that level with the coaching he has access to. Everyone agrees that we need more out of him.
 
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chasepollard

Heisman
Nov 25, 2005
92,465
13,452
48
Touche. Okay let's ask this question? What is the minimum ranking we need from every weight before we start discussing replacements? It's not personal at all. Just business to get #35. 10th or better? Is it crazy to say I think it needs to be 5th or better to catch Penn State???
Well, last year, they went 8-1 in medal matches. AA’d ten guys and started the tourney like 20-0.

That is a tough train to derail and it’s not slowing down.

What we need to do is focus on punching guys through to the semis at a high rate and I think the work starts turning?

So no, by the numbers, you aren’t crazy. If we have guys drop a match in the first two rounds, they better run back through the backside with lots of bonus. Think of Coleman’s 3rd place finish at NCAAs as an example.

In two seasons (barring the unforeseen,) we will be pretty stout!

25- Zinkin, Nacho and Ronnie (if he’s not outgrown it already.)
33- Ronnie and Raney
41- Vega and Jax
49- Raney and Jax
57- Robideau
65- Dee
74- Routledge
84- Ryder
97- Merrill
285- Ross

That is some serious firepower and it’ll still be tough to beat them.
 

OAMC99

All-Conference
Mar 25, 2002
4,651
1,308
113
Well, last year, they went 8-1 in medal matches. AA’d ten guys and started the tourney like 20-0.

That is a tough train to derail and it’s not slowing down.

What we need to do is focus on punching guys through to the semis at a high rate and I think the work starts turning?

So no, by the numbers, you aren’t crazy. If we have guys drop a match in the first two rounds, they better run back through the backside with lots of bonus. Think of Coleman’s 3rd place finish at NCAAs as an example.

In two seasons (barring the unforeseen,) we will be pretty stout!

25- Zinkin, Nacho and Ronnie (if he’s not outgrown it already.)
33- Ronnie and Raney
41- Vega and Jax
49- Raney and Jax
57- Robideau
65- Dee
74- Routledge
84- Ryder
97- Merrill
285- Ross

That is some serious firepower and it’ll still be tough to beat them.
EXACTLY. I am not here to disparage anyone on our team. The issue we face is we are not just competing against a great team in Penn State. We are competing against a program that is a threat to set a new national scoring record at the NCAA tournament every year. No one has ever faced this problem.

I look at that lineup you created. It looks amazing. The wrestlers I am most excited about - Vega, Robideau, Lockett, and Forrest. Next would be Raney and Ross.

Then I think about what Penn State has. The following wrestlers on their roster are sophomores or younger: Barr, Blaze, Desmond, Duke, Lilledahl, Mirasola, Mirasola, Sealy, and Walsh.

Plus all the other guys that are juniors this year that block our best guys for two years - Messinbrink at 165 ahead of Lockett is the best example. And their 2027 recruiting class where they will completely reload.

We could field some all-time great Cowboy teams and not beat them. Everyone has to make the semi-finals like you said, it seems. Insanity.

Here is one crazy illustration. If Jax Forrest faces Marcus Blaze and Ono each of the next 4 years for the title at 141 - who would be the Vegas odds favorite to win?
 
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Okie_Pat

All-Conference
Feb 3, 2022
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Pat I agree on all of your takes here. But we're saying Vega has to stay in the lineup because he's the best wrestler at 141 by far, right? What about the fact that we can't win the team national championship this year? That's the only reason I wouldn't hate a redshirt. Does that make me a total wuss?

Facundo needs to be at 165 where I think he'd be really good. He gets to legs, he just can't finish his shots at 174.

I don't know what to say about Ryder. If he wasn't such a highly ranked recruit with the resume he has, we'd be calling for a replacement. How many takedowns does he have in 12 matches? Less than 5? How much better is he going to get?
I'm saying its Vega's spot because he's the best wrestler we have at the weight and he's earned the right to start by proving he cant beat (2X) last years national finalist. To me RS doesnt matter if you have a strong conviction the guy can go out and score you some big time points at NCAA's. We are always going to be fighting for the title with PSU but where we are as a program right now I think its more important to show the world that if you come here we can and will develop you into a national champ as a freshman. I just don't think you screw up the momentum that Vega has right now on a RS.

There is always the option of RS Vega next year and giving Jamison a medical RS this year. Having Casey and Jamison battle for 149 next year and loser goes down to 141.
 

chasepollard

Heisman
Nov 25, 2005
92,465
13,452
48
I'm saying its Vega's spot because he's the best wrestler we have at the weight and he's earned the right to start by proving he cant beat (2X) last years national finalist. To me RS doesnt matter if you have a strong conviction the guy can go out and score you some big time points at NCAA's. We are always going to be fighting for the title with PSU but where we are as a program right now I think its more important to show the world that if you come here we can and will develop you into a national champ as a freshman. I just don't think you screw up the momentum that Vega has right now on a RS.

There is always the option of RS Vega next year and giving Jamison a medical RS this year. Having Casey and Jamison battle for 149 next year and loser goes down to 141.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think Jax stays at 33 very long, like after this year, he’s probably a 41 and still growing.
 
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Corby2

All-Conference
Jul 14, 2025
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Awful, awful take. And I usually agree with him. Vega is undefeated. And has dominated Hardy. And other good competition. But Hardy would do better against the field? If Hardy can do what he's done - what can a much better wrestler than him do?!?
Rankings once you've enough data from the current season (1 month or so) those results are used for rankings P4P goes back further
 
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