Need an attorney to weigh in on this

[ramblinman_rivals165935]

I am hoping a legal eagle can explain what is happening today and play out some scenarios.

Are Fenwick's attorneys arguing only for an injunction that the 7A title game not be played until such time as they can present their civil case in court? Or are they presenting their full case today and asking that the court force the IHSA to put Fenwick in the title game?

Is the IHSA allowed legal representation at this hearing?

What happens if an injunction is granted? Can the IHSA appeal that? If so, can Fenwick appeal the appeal? How does all this happen between now and Saturday, given that tomorrow is a national Holiday?

 

[vfl05]

And why would the court be able to tell the IHSA what to do when Fenwick is governed by the IHSA voluntarily and can leave any time they want?

 

[BallHog85]

And why would the court be able to tell the IHSA what to do when Fenwick is governed by the IHSA voluntarily and can leave any time they want?

Breach of contract it appears

 

[godfthr53]

The Fenwick Lawyers Argument was terrible.

 

[King MJ_rivals]

tax lawyer here. (though i went to law school).


From what i can tell so far, Fenwick's best argument is no due process existed. If the IHSA had given Fenwick a hearing, rejected the appeal this would be open and shut.

Not giving them due process (which others have had in the past) opens them up to many issues. At a minimum, IHSA's legal counsel should be fired for blundering this, regardless of result.

 

[Brin22]

The Fenwick Lawyers Argument was terrible.

What should have been their argument, then?

 

[vfl05]

What should have been their argument, then?

They don't have one.

 

[godfthr53]

What should have been their argument, then?

Their first point wasn't good at all. I'm not a lawyer but if I was a judging based on that argument that contract with IHSA ends at end of regulation and that the refs "forced them to play OT" I would be like the refs throw a flag DURING regulation and the refs need to end the game.

 

[vfl05]

tax lawyer here. (though i went to law school).


From what i can tell so far, Fenwick's best argument is no due process existed. If the IHSA had given Fenwick a hearing, rejected the appeal this would be open and shut.

Not giving them due process (which others have had in the past) opens them up to many issues. At a minimum, IHSA's legal counsel should be fired for blundering this, regardless of result.

But in the IHSA by-laws, it clearly states that "protests against the decision of a game official shall not be reviewed by the Board of Directors." and that by-law was voted on by IHSA members. Case closed.

 

[Cross Bones]

The one thing I can say working daily with lawyers and legally binding contracts is often times they mean squat in the court room, especially if a jury is involved.

 

[godfthr53]

F

But in the IHSA by-laws, it clearly states that "protests against the decision of a game official shall not be reviewed by the Board of Directors." and that by-law was voted on by IHSA members. Case closed.

Fenwicks other argument is that Board of Directors can't overturn but a court can.
From the twitter feeds IMO the IHSA lawyer is schooling the Fenwick one.

 

[vfl05]

F

Fenwicks other argument is that Board of Directors can't overturn but a court can.
From the twitter feeds IMO the IHSA lawyer is schooling the Fenwick one.

Agreed.

 

[ramblinman_rivals165935]

But in the IHSA by-laws, it clearly states that "protests against the decision of a game official shall not be reviewed by the Board of Directors." and that by-law was voted on by IHSA members. Case closed.

Even if that decision is to ignore the rules of the game that have also been voted on, and approved, by IHSA members?

 

[vfl05]

Even if that decision is to ignore the rules of the game that have also been voted on, and approved, by IHSA members?

It is quite a stretch to imply that the referees knew the rule and chose to ignore it. It was pretty clearly a mistake, and Fenwick didn't know the rule either according to their head coach. Then they voluntarily finished regulation and OT.

 

[godfthr53]

Fenwick lawyer on officials having final power: "what happens when they are guided by prejudice, guided by anger? No one can stop that?"

Come on man.

 

[ramblinman_rivals165935]

It is quite a stretch to imply that the referees knew the rule and chose to ignore it. It was pretty clearly a mistake, and Fenwick didn't know the rule either according to their head coach. Then they voluntarily finished regulation and OT.

Fenwick not knowing the rule might be your point, but it is not THE point. I am not implying that the officials chose to ignore a rule they knew about. Whether or not the officials ignored the rule on purpose is not THE point either.

Here is THE point: A rule of the game was not properly enforced. The result of not following that rule was to award a team an untimed down that they did not deserve after time had LEGALLY EXPIRED.

 

[vfl05]

Fenwick lawyer on officials having final power: "what happens when they are guided by prejudice, guided by anger? No one can stop that?"

Come on man.

 

[vfl05]

Fenwick not knowing the rule might be your point, but it is not THE point. I am not implying that the officials chose to ignore a rule they knew about. Whether or not the officials ignored the rule on purpose is not THE point either.

Here is THE point: A rule of the game was not properly enforced. The result of not following that rule was to award a team an untimed down that they did not deserve after time had LEGALLY EXPIRED.

Which Fenwick agreed to and willingly played. Also, Improper rule enforcement happens all the time with referees. Armando Galleraga had a perfect game with one out to go when the umpire wrongly called a baserunner safe at first (before replay). The next batter got an at bat that he didn't deserve. Did the MLB overturn that?

 

[crusader_of_90]

ONLY ONE person in this thread has identified themselves as a lawyer and he spoke in generalities, not definitives. This is a man who knows "what's up" in the legal sense.

Others who I assume do not have a JD or have passed the bar are speaking absolutes.

Judge for yourself the worth of these statements.

 

[MWittman]

IHSA lawyer alternatively tells a judge she has "no power" to change the rule and proceeds to tell her to "have the courage" to stay out of this.

I've seen some bad court performances before, but don't EVER tell a judge they are powerless.

Where the HELL did this dim-wit go to law school?

 

[godfthr53]

IHSA lawyer alternatively tells a judge she has "no power" to change the rule and proceeds to tell her to "have the courage" to stay out of this.

I've seen some bad court performances before, but don't EVER tell a judge they are powerless.

Where the HELL did this dim-wit go to law school?

Can she rule in favor of Fenwick and IHSA say our championship game as stands. PN vs. ESL

 

[BallHog85]

IHSA lawyer alternatively tells a judge she has "no power" to change the rule and proceeds to tell her to "have the courage" to stay out of this.

I've seen some bad court performances before, but don't EVER tell a judge they are powerless.

Where the HELL did this dim-wit go to law school?

I thought the exact same thing. I'm not in the courtroom, so can't say for certain, but my god, it reads like a challenge to her authority.

 

[ramblinman_rivals165935]

Which Fenwick agreed to and willingly played. Also, Improper rule enforcement happens all the time with referees. Armando Galleraga had a perfect game with one out to go when the umpire wrongly called a baserunner safe at first (before replay). The next batter got an at bat that he didn't deserve. Did the MLB overturn that?

MLB should have overturned it. He deserved a perfect game in the annals of MLB history. He was robbed...very similar to how Fenwick was robbed.

 

[go dogz]

Fenwick not knowing the rule might be your point, but it is not THE point. I am not implying that the officials chose to ignore a rule they knew about. Whether or not the officials ignored the rule on purpose is not THE point either.

Here is THE point: A rule of the game was not properly enforced. The result of not following that rule was to award a team an untimed down that they did not deserve after time had LEGALLY EXPIRED.

you keep trying to imply. time legally expired. (everything is in question now) pn is going countersue that time did not legally expire. no kid can throw a ball for 3-5seconds, especially if a professional punter can only hang a ball for 3-5seconds. they will definitely countersue for clock management negligence. in an attempt to throw the game. because when the ball actually hits the ground, the clock should have stopped, it kept on running. through nothing other than the clock manager forgot to press the button.. or did they just wait until they heard the buzzer.

 

[vfl05]

MLB should have overturned it. He deserved a perfect game in the annals of MLB history. He was robbed...very similar to how Fenwick was robbed.

If the IHSA ruled in favor of Fenwick, it would have set up a precedent that any game outcome can be taken to court to overturn. It was just impossible.

 

[go dogz]

IHSA lawyer alternatively tells a judge she has "no power" to change the rule and proceeds to tell her to "have the courage" to stay out of this.

I've seen some bad court performances before, but don't EVER tell a judge they are powerless.

Where the HELL did this dim-wit go to law school?

notre dame

 

[ramblinman_rivals165935]

you keep trying to imply. time legally expired. (everything is in question now) pn is going countersue that time did not legally expire. no kid can throw a ball for 3-5seconds, especially if a professional punter can only hang a ball for 3-5seconds. they will definitely countersue for clock management negligence. in an attempt to throw the game. because when the ball actually hits the ground, the clock should have stopped, it kept on running. through nothing other than the clock manager forgot to press the button.. or did they just wait until they heard the buzzer.

Time did legally expire. Nobody other than you is arguing that point.

BTW, you aren't allowing anytime for the center to snap the ball, QB to take the snap, drop back, pull his arm back, and release the ball.

Don't let the details get in the way of your narrative.

 

[BallHog85]

So can Fenwick now appeal? Or is this final?

 

[go dogz]

Time did legally expire. Nobody other than you is arguing that point.

BTW, you aren't allowing anytime for the center to snap the ball, QB to take the snap, drop back, pull his arm back, and release the ball.

Don't let the details get in the way of your narrative.

ya ok, clearly in the video, he did drop back. if he did we would not have been here.
clearly in in the video, you can see the ball bounce and lights still flickering. meaning time was still running. I do not care one way or the other. the outcome is the outcome. but, I am telling you, if you wanted lawsuits flying around. this would have opened pandoras box. it was way, way, way more likely outcome that the clock manager's finger did not press stop. ohwell who is playing Saturday so I can set my vcr.

 

[MWittman]

notre dame

go dogz:

Doubtful. According to Sun Times reporter Mike O'Brian, the IHSA attorney told Judge Kennedy he grew up in Oak Park, but wasn't "smart" enough to gain admission to Fenwick. If he couldn't get in at Fenwick, he didn't get accepted to ND.

I do applaud you for your feeble attempt at humor, however.

I would also like to publicly commend you for remaining sober long enough to post somewhat legibly. Ordinarily, your drugged-up, profanity-laced posts earn you banishment; it is good to see you have abstained from drinking nail polish.

Lets continue working toward complete sobriety. Good luck.................

 

[go dogz]

Doubtful. According to Sun Times reporter Mike O'Brian, the IHSA attorney told Judge Kennedy he grew up in Oak Park, but wasn't "smart" enough to gain admission to Fenwick. If he couldn't get in at Fenwick, he didn't get accepted to ND.

I do applaud you for your feeble attempt at humor, however.

I would also like to publicly commend you for remaining sober long enough to post somewhat legibly. Ordinarily, your drugged-up, profanity-laced posts earn you banishment; it is good to see you have abstained from drinking nail polish.

Lets continue working toward complete sobriety. Good luck.................

hahaha twitman! you have no sense of humor. and I certainly could careless of what you or anyone you conversed with had to say or think.
as you were told before, go play with the ladies down the block, sip yur whine. hahaha.
oh they do let cheats and despicable people into nd all of the time. as you will come to find out in the very near future. hope you are very good lawyer, or lawyer up now. the cheating on tests scandal is going all the way back to when you came louder than anyone.haha you brag about your crap. go hang your crap on your walls. when I need you. I will pay for your services and you will do whatever I say. such is life. no one cares how much you own, how much got, because at the end of the day. you put your pants one leg at a time. just like every other person on here. what twit.

 

[MWittman]

go dogz:

In addition to nail polish, please stop drinking paint thinner.

 

[go dogz]

go dogz:

In addition to nail polish, please stop drinking pain thinner.

twit it is paint thinner...

 

[PRokie]

NOTRE DAME COULD NOT HAVE CHEATED!!!!
NEVER HAPPENS.. CAN"T PROVE IT.

THEY ARE PRIVATE, AND ABOVE EVERYONE ELSE'S PETTY RULES.

RULES ARE FOR POOR PEOPLE

 

[MWittman]

twit it is paint thinner...

go dogz:

Thanks for the correction. Fortunately for me, my shortcomings are easily corrected. On the contrary, yours are both numerous and require months, perhaps years, of intensive therapy, extended stays in drug rehabilitation facilities and a personal discipline you have yet to demonstrate.

As I've said before, you need to abstain from drinking sterno, paint thinner or nail polish before you post. I wish you all the best in your recovery.

 

[go dogz]

go dogz:

Thanks for the correction. Fortunately for me, my shortcomings are easily corrected. On the contrary, your are both numerous and require months, perhaps years, of intensive therapy, extended stays in drug rehabilitation facilities and a personal discipline you have yet to demonstrate.

As I've said before, you need to abstain from drinking sterno, paint thinner or nail polish before you post. I wish you all the best in your recovery.

twit - as I have said before. go back to playing dollies with the ladies down the street.
this area now is for big boys. you continue to try talk above and down to people.
I or nobody cares what education, what profession you are in.
no one really cares except for you apparently because you constantly taunt with all of your accolades. you can try to call people names all you want. but, you can not run away from yourself. you are a complete tool. no amount of money can help you with that.
just kind of feel sorry for you.

 

[GMAN81]

Dang dogz! You can drink sterno, paint thinner AND nail polish and still come here and post?? You are a better man than me!! Hahaha!!

 

[GMAN81]

go dogz:

Thanks for the correction. Fortunately for me, my shortcomings are easily corrected. On the contrary, your are both numerous and require months, perhaps years, of intensive therapy, extended stays in drug rehabilitation facilities and a personal discipline you have yet to demonstrate.

As I've said before, you need to abstain from drinking sterno, paint thinner or nail polish before you post. I wish you all the best in your recovery.

Hahaha!! Actually kind of funny. I'd like to meet the guy who can drink sterno, paint thinner or nail polish and still come here and post. Remember Tim Rossovich? He was a linebacker for the Eagles, Chargers and Oilers. I remember reading about him in Sports Illustrated years ago.

This was one strange dude. A lunatic, some said. Tom Selleck was his college roommate at USC. The guy used to make money on bets by setting himself on fire and chewing glass...etc. The SI article said, if my memory serves, that he once bet someone he could beat him in a race. So, to prepare for the race, it was said he drank motor oil!! He was arrested this past June in connection with a domestic violence incident.

Just trying to lighten things up.

 

[MWittman]

you continue to try talk above and down to people.

go dogz:

Actually, I don't. You are elevating me.

Instead of suggesting this is a one way street, go back and glance at your remarks directed at me. All unprovoked, you took several swipes and I returned fire.

If you can't sustain my retaliations, don't fire the first salvo.

 

[go dogz]

go dogz:

Actually, I don't. You are elevating me.
hahaha yeah I just elevated you to the poop of the message board.

Instead of suggesting this is a one way street, go back and glance at your remarks directed at me. All unprovoked, you took several swipes and I returned fire.
If you can't sustain my retaliations, don't fire the first salvo.

ok, whatever tool, we are done.