No one listens to the left anymore. They're the boy who cried wolf.
- Thread starter EEResistable
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I imagine many people listen to the left. And I also imagine those numbers will gradually increase over the next four years.....as the distractions fade, the rhetoric gets old, and the promises continue to fail. I'm just hoping enough truth comes out in the next two, so there is balance on the hill.
Agreed. The GOP, or more accurately TOP, will f it up sooner rather than later.
I think there is a degree of truth to the idea that part of the Left has turned into the boy that cried wolf. The racism and sexism and homophobia and bigot cards got so powerful that it became irresistible to play them over and over.
To be sure those cards were played with a lot of validity most of the time. But since they were so irresistible they started to be played when they weren't valid too and thus started to lose their effect.
But in addition to the Left playing those cards at times when it wasn't valid, even worse was some on the Left starting to not apply those same standards to themselves. So they pounded the Right on these issues for decades and then would decide now and then that these same standards wouldn't apply to their own pet issues.
So they'll pound a Christian baker for refusing to bake a cake for a gay wedding (and forgoing a profit for himself in the process) then they'll turn around and minimize and explain away a Muslim killing 50 people in a gay nightclub. And other stuff along those lines too. Hilary talks about how she's kicking in the door for women one minute and then she's wearing a hijab the next. You simply lose credibility when you do that.
For a long time there was a battle in this country over values and by and large the liberals won. We take things like gay rights and womens rights and religious freedoms and keeping religion out of government for granted not but a lot of people for a long time wanted it otherwise. They lost. The liberals won. And now those liberal values are prevalent. That means that when anyone, the Left included, start violating they values they're more likely to lose.
To be sure those cards were played with a lot of validity most of the time. But since they were so irresistible they started to be played when they weren't valid too and thus started to lose their effect.
But in addition to the Left playing those cards at times when it wasn't valid, even worse was some on the Left starting to not apply those same standards to themselves. So they pounded the Right on these issues for decades and then would decide now and then that these same standards wouldn't apply to their own pet issues.
So they'll pound a Christian baker for refusing to bake a cake for a gay wedding (and forgoing a profit for himself in the process) then they'll turn around and minimize and explain away a Muslim killing 50 people in a gay nightclub. And other stuff along those lines too. Hilary talks about how she's kicking in the door for women one minute and then she's wearing a hijab the next. You simply lose credibility when you do that.
For a long time there was a battle in this country over values and by and large the liberals won. We take things like gay rights and womens rights and religious freedoms and keeping religion out of government for granted not but a lot of people for a long time wanted it otherwise. They lost. The liberals won. And now those liberal values are prevalent. That means that when anyone, the Left included, start violating they values they're more likely to lose.
No matter what happens to Trump's agenda (and he is NOT failing) the Democrat agenda of income redistribution through high taxation has so thoroughly failed that they can't even run on it anymore.
They do not promote or advocate that end of their failed philosophy, they instead adopt Conservative language to try and convince voters they too are for fiscal discipline and limited Government which is a lie.
They have no bench of up and coming promising Leftists who can articulate that philosophy as a winning political strategy.
Their current leadership is old and decrepit and they have no answers to Trump's reform agenda of smaller Government and lower taxes other than to say "no", or spout the same old tired Democrat talking points of "giveaways to the Rich" or "blowing holes in the deficit" which have no credibility with voters when it comes from the Left.
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I surely agree with the Christian baker aspect of your post. I think these types of freedom of expression (religious) should be honored by the left.
But racism and sexism? When I first got onto this board I would have agreed with you. Conservatives on here had principles that seemed to not reflect those bigoted ideologies, and that the left was either overparanoid or using a strategy. However, as I read more and more posts, a lot of conservative poster's core ideologies begin to emerge.....and many are in fact sexist and racist. Some are not, and their opinions hold a lot of weight with me, as they challenge my beliefs with validity. But I have to say, some are, and their credibility fails susbstantially.
I certainly don't mean to say that there's no racism, sexism, etc on the right at this point. And the anonymity of the Internet can make people say crazy things on message boards so I don't put too much stock in message boards.
Some of the right is still behind on these things but whereas before they were 40 years behind now they're only 10 years behind. Okay, they're 10 years behind, not optimal but an improvement. But then when people that are 100 years behind because of their fundamentalist religious beliefs come along and some of the Left acts like it's just fine to be that way then I think that just makes eyes roll.
If you have good standards just stick to them at all times. It's almost like being a parent. Teach your kids standards and discipline them when they stray from the standards and, importantly, apply the standards consistently. If you start picking and choosing when the standards apply then they're no longer standards and the kids can sense it and they start to lose respect.
I love it when spend now, tax later liberals take a parental tone when condescending with each other. It down right makes me belly chuckle.
You are trying to explain a concept to someone Op2 who doesn't even know what the word means.
Standards?
Whose standards?
What for?
What's right and what's wrong cannot be defined by any "standard" so as not to offend one's sensibilities or values developed from understanding one's own level of self awareness from one's own individual Life experiences don't you know?
Standards are like "forcing" your morality onto someone without their ability to reject your definitions. So you'd better be ready to define where those standards come from Op2, and who gets to define them?
Otherwise to the poster you are trying to explain this very simple concept to, you might as well be speaking in Russian.
I love it when a man that thinks women should not have the right to vote, acts like he has principles.....makes me chuckle.
Well, I have observable history on my side, but you let your feelings lead the way for you, sweetheart.
I agree that the standards are subjective. Even if you point to objective standards and say "Those should be the standards we use" it is subjective because you are subjectively deciding what the objective standards should be. (I'm having deja vu. I think I've written this here before.)
So yes, the liberal standards that have come into place in the US over the past few decades are a subjective standard. And they could change. But the standards are what they are right now and more importantly they have become the standards for a pretty large portion of our society. And I would argue that portion is only going to grow over time from here onwards. In the future are we going to have fewer people accepting of gays or womens rights or whatever? No, we're just not going to go back on those things or at least that's how I see it.
You actually are correct here Op2, the standards as defined from period to period and culture to culture certainly do and have changed. You've explained in this thread how the Left uses them to decide and pick and choose when to be upset and with whom?
At one time it was unthinkable for a Man to marry any other person besides a Female. At one time, it was unconscionable in our society for a Man to think he was actually a Woman, or that they were both the same physically, mentally, or even biologically!
At one time in our culture, it was assumed a Man takes care of the Offspring he helped a Woman to produce, and he honored and cherished both his Bride and the product of their expressed Love for one another by staying together and raising that Child in their image as a Family
At one time, it was honorable for a Man to give his word, and stick by it. It was correct for a Woman to remain celibate and "save herself" for her future mate for Life...her husband. (funny how we still expect our partners to remain celibate after Marriage but somehow that's impossible before it huh?)
No my friend Op2, the world of shifting standards you've oddly stumbled into here are defining our current culture and our morality today, no question. All of the above that was essentially taboo only a couple of generations ago, is now suddenly chic and in vogue.
So now we have over half of all Marriages ending in Divorce, Men dressing like Woman or changing into them and vice versa, infidelity, promiscuity, abortion, 80% out of Wedlock births, Welfare, problem youth who have no self respect or proper self esteem who cannot control themselves, their urges, are disrespectful of all authority and have a total disregard for Life itself.
Yep Op2, those "shifting standards" are a sure sign of "progress". But who are we to define what that is even?
After all, what are "standards" when everyone gets to decide for themselves what's right or what's wrong?
The only progress that Progressives have made is driving Western Civilization to the brink of collapse. Fk them for that.
I don't disagree with how you characterize their so called progressive "contributions" to our culture, but my only point is a duplicitous rule of shifting morals inevitably leads to the very archaic subjective application of "standards" Op2 pointed out.
It's as if they refuse to see that the real problem is lack of any objective standards while they are arguing against imposing them.
Everyone ALWAYS gets to decide for themselves what's right or what's wrong.
I don't think things are so bad. The teen birth rate is the lowest it's been in decades. The abortion rate is lower than since Roe v Wade. The recent upticks aside we have a pretty peaceful society.
Dat dar ole timey way was right, en everybody all wantin to progress, welp it be just plain wrong
Yes true again Op2, and this is the problem when values collide.
However in this case Op2 I'll give you perception is reality.
But how many mass murders have there been just this year alone?
You don't leave your car doors unlocked, or your windows and doors at home open at night do you?
If you have kids, you don't let them play outside being beyond your line of eyesight, and I doubt you totally trust all of your neighbors or even know them very well, do you?
The low teen birth rate you mentioned isn't because we've taught them the virtues of sexual modesty, it 's because we've slaughtered over 30 million of their unwanted Children since Roe v Wade was adjudicated.
The rates of those things you don't like are down compared to 25 years ago or whatever. What else can I say?
Really nothing Op2, you have correctly placed into proper perspective the exact culture shock we argue every day over not just here in the OT forum, but across the country.
It is this exact culture war that is tearing at the fabric of our society, institutions, Families and personal relationsips.
Where Truth is relative, honesty is negotiated, facts are debated, and not even standards of deceny are commonly accepted, a civiilized society cannot function. This cultural dichotomy and it's ancillary effects have chipped away at our foundations and destroyed our ability to instantly recognize its danger.
The result in my opinion is a new normal of debauchery and deviancy defined down to such a point that almost anything now is argued as acceptable, and standing against anything that is not acceptable is now considered the crime by moral and truth averse relativists.
Unless a consensus can be reached on what is correct, and decent, and good vs what is incorrect, or indecent, or evil this roiling undercurrent in our culture will ultimately prove more destructive than any Foreign threat.
It is destroying us and ultimatley will defeat us.
The Bible says "my people are ruined for lack of knowledge" Hosea 4: 1-6, and in Job 36: 11-12 it says "my people perish for lack of knowledge". [sic of good vs evil]
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