NU vs IA - Rankings

GatoLouco

Sophomore
Nov 13, 2019
5,636
116
63
I understand the rankings are worth what they are worth. In any case, to put this into the perspective or recruitment, here are the rankings of the NU and IA up to 10 deep rosters (sorted by average minutes played):

Payton Sandfort176Casey Simmons103
02/28/22 Starting 5 average:27802/28/22 Starting 5 average:212
10 player average:24310 player average:222
 

hoosboot

All-American
Nov 7, 2001
26,893
6,534
0
I understand the rankings are worth what they are worth. In any case, to put this into the perspective or recruitment, here are the rankings of the NU and IA up to 10 deep rosters (sorted by average minutes played):

Payton Sandfort176Casey Simmons103
02/28/22 Starting 5 average:27802/28/22 Starting 5 average:212
10 player average:24310 player average:222

Surprising and striking. I suppose that's what recruiting to a system and development within that system do for you. When you recruit mostly outside of the Top 100, it's not about choosing the highest rated guy. It's about choosing the RIGHT guy and then developing him in a role that fits alongside other pieces similarly recruited and developed.
 

TheC

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
19,102
1,171
62
This has been the criticism of CCC since that first successful class. It was never clear what his recruiting plan was. It seemed like he was in love with the 6'8+ wing who could shoot, but beyond that, there was no evident strategy. I still couldn't tell you today what our team identity is. I wonder if they can.
 

TheC

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
19,102
1,171
62
But don't you see the rankings of Iowa's pieces next to NU's pieces in the very first post of the thread? With similar rankings, why does Iowa have a top 25 team while NU is under .500?
Consistently, too!
 

GatoLouco

Sophomore
Nov 13, 2019
5,636
116
63
But don't you see the rankings of Iowa's pieces next to NU's pieces in the very first post of the thread? With similar rankings, why does Iowa have a top 25 team while NU is under .500?
You're assuming Willy can read a table.

Anyway, I did something similar with Rutgers and the results are also... similar...

No possible to win at NU? BS
 

phatcat_rivals223240

All-Conference
Nov 5, 2001
18,867
1,035
113
You're assuming Willy can read a table.

Anyway, I did something similar with Rutgers and the results are also... similar...

No possible to win at NU? BS
Apparently, none of the Iowa or RU recruits are able to get through the Admissions blockade. Also, we are the only P6 school with this problem. So, nothing will change unless we water down admissions. Like we have for football for 27 years. I'll give this post a capital /S
 

PurpleWhiteBoy

Redshirt
Feb 25, 2021
5,303
0
0
You must be watching and talking about a different NU team.
No. Buie is pretty good. Berry can shoot. Nance is obviously a very good power forward who can score from anywhere. Young is a decent starting center who is overmatched by only a couple guys (Cockburn and Edey).
Beran is a pretty good backup for Nance. Nicholson is one of the better backup centers in the league. Greer is a competent player. Audige is a lockdown defender. Roper, Simmons and Barnhizer all have some ability.

The problem is that these pieces are not developed, nobody knows their roles, guys are encouraged to do things they are not good at and there is no coherence in how the players are used.
 

Purple Pile Driver

All-Conference
May 14, 2014
27,132
2,565
113
I understand the rankings are worth what they are worth. In any case, to put this into the perspective or recruitment, here are the rankings of the NU and IA up to 10 deep rosters (sorted by average minutes played):

Payton Sandfort176Casey Simmons103
02/28/22 Starting 5 average:27802/28/22 Starting 5 average:212
10 player average:24310 player average:222
Gato, I like that you attempt to balance things in your posts. However, as with anything you are going to find significant over performance as well as significant underperformance based on recruiting stats.

As you know, I am not in the camp tha NU has enough talent on the roster. In fact, to me it it clearly bottom third of the B1G. However, so is Iowa, Wisconsin, and Rutgers and they do just fine. They are examples of 1) Good under the radar recruiting, 2) excellent development, or 3) having a system that works for the player they can get. Schools like Michigan, Indiana, and MSU could only be described as woefully underperforming their recruiting ranking. For yuks and giggles here are the number of top 100 recruits from 2018-2021 per school. It doesn’t consider transfers out or in. (They don’t help NU).

IL 5
IN. 6
IA. 2
MD 5
MI. 9
MN 2
MSU 9
NEB 1
NU 1
PSU 0
PU. 3
RUT 1
WI 0

So, on recruiting star power, we should be able to hang with and beat, IA, MN, Neb, PSU, Rut, and WI. Clearly, we failed as we are 3-5 against these teams. Of course, their fan base expects them to beat us too. Conversely, you could say we should never be able to hang of beat MI, MSU or IN. They are clearly under performers.

I stick by what I said before games were played 8 was a par coaching. We missed it. IMO, 10 wins would have been a great outcome and 6 wins would be poor. We stunk it up and got poor.

After the PSU loss I said NU is in an untenable position with recruiting going forward. CCC can’t sell results. So go ahead and try something else. Bottom line is wins are all that matter and all the dissecting of the third string centers minutes doesn’t change the fact that we woefully missed a reasonable target, I just don’t buy this talent argument people throw out here.
 

GatoLouco

Sophomore
Nov 13, 2019
5,636
116
63
Gato, I like that you attempt to balance things in your posts. However, as with anything you are going to find significant over performance as well as significant underperformance based on recruiting stats.

As you know, I am not in the camp tha NU has enough talent on the roster. In fact, to me it it clearly bottom third of the B1G. However, so is Iowa, Wisconsin, and Rutgers and they do just fine. They are examples of 1) Good under the radar recruiting, 2) excellent development, or 3) having a system that works for the player they can get. Schools like Michigan, Indiana, and MSU could only be described as woefully underperforming their recruiting ranking. For yuks and giggles here are the number of top 100 recruits from 2018-2021 per school. It doesn’t consider transfers out or in. (They don’t help NU).

IL 5
IN. 6
IA. 2
MD 5
MI. 9
MN 2
MSU 9
NEB 1
NU 1
PSU 0
PU. 3
RUT 1
WI 0

So, on recruiting star power, we should be able to hang with and beat, IA, MN, Neb, PSU, Rut, and WI. Clearly, we failed as we are 3-5 against these teams. Of course, their fan base expects them to beat us too. Conversely, you could say we should never be able to hang of beat MI, MSU or IN. They are clearly under performers.

I stick by what I said before games were played 8 was a par coaching. We missed it. IMO, 10 wins would have been a great outcome and 6 wins would be poor. We stunk it up and got poor.

After the PSU loss I said NU is in an untenable position with recruiting going forward. CCC can’t sell results. So go ahead and try something else. Bottom line is wins are all that matter and all the dissecting of the third string centers minutes doesn’t change the fact that we woefully missed a reasonable target, I just don’t buy this talent argument people throw out here.
I pretty much agree with you on everything you wrote but:
1) Talent. I believe we have the horses, at least this year, to be close to middle of the pack. And that would give us a bubble. But pretty irrelevant for this discussion anyway
2) 8 as par for the course, which kind of ties into 1). I stuck my neck out on numbers before the season started, with all the unknown associated with that. Thought WI, RU or IA would be worse and here comes David, Keegan and whatever they put in the water in Piscataway. Thought MI or MD would be better. But, in the end, I feel some confirmation seeing that analytics still point to us, in theory, being good for 10 or 11 wins. But this also is pretty irrelevant for the discussion.

What's relevant is that, in my opinion, the ratings also confirm that we can win. I am not saying turn into a juggernaut. I am not even saying achieving the sustained success IA has attained with McCaffery. Just make the tournament 1-2 times in 10 years. Be on the bubble 1-2 more. Make the NIT 1-2 times. Have rebuilding years without being the laughing stock of the league. I don't think that's very demanding of the next guy. And suspect we'd want to hold on to him.

But mostly I'd like to see a guy on the sideline I feel he knows what he's doing. I know this is just a personal opinion and is self centered, but when you start believing your coach is a bit clueless, you spiral.
 

AdamOnFirst

All-Conference
Nov 29, 2021
9,710
1,350
113
I pretty much agree with you on everything you wrote but:
1) Talent. I believe we have the horses, at least this year, to be close to middle of the pack. And that would give us a bubble. But pretty irrelevant for this discussion anyway
2) 8 as par for the course, which kind of ties into 1). I stuck my neck out on numbers before the season started, with all the unknown associated with that. Thought WI, RU or IA would be worse and here comes David, Keegan and whatever they put in the water in Piscataway. Thought MI or MD would be better. But, in the end, I feel some confirmation seeing that analytics still point to us, in theory, being good for 10 or 11 wins. But this also is pretty irrelevant for the discussion.

What's relevant is that, in my opinion, the ratings also confirm that we can win. I am not saying turn into a juggernaut. I am not even saying achieving the sustained success IA has attained with McCaffery. Just make the tournament 1-2 times in 10 years. Be on the bubble 1-2 more. Make the NIT 1-2 times. Have rebuilding years without being the laughing stock of the league. I don't think that's very demanding of the next guy. And suspect we'd want to hold on to him.

But mostly I'd like to see a guy on the sideline I feel he knows what he's doing. I know this is just a personal opinion and is self centered, but when you start believing your coach is a bit clueless, you spiral.
NU clearly has the talent, compared to other teams, to get it done this year in combination with their experience. A team with NU's talent isn't going to be an annual competitor in the Big Ten, but we should be able to put together occasional but consistent good years when we match everything up with experience and the right young guy.