Greetings. This is my first time posting and I never played football so I have limited knowledge. Having said that, I remember the offensive lines in the 80’s and 90’s being more physically dominant. Most of the time they could convert third down plays with 2 yards or less by running the ball. We just don’t look that physical. What am I missing or what is the real problem? Thanks.
Offensive line question.
- Thread starter harveybwright1
- Start date
There were similar problems in the final decade or so of JoePa's coaching, where the O-line looked soft and wasn't moving the B1G defensive fronts at will. Many blamed it on HIT strength and conditioning at the time.
I appreciate the insightful comments. I can see where joining the B1G made a difference. Is our recruiting at that position sub par? Do we not recruit for toughness? Do we not develop the players well? At many other positions we do fine but the offensive lines just always seem like a weak link to me. They sometimes look physically over matched. Thoughts?
what else changed over Joe's final decade? Answer that and you have the answer to the problem
1981 starting offensive line
LT- Bill Contz (6 years NFL and author)
LG- Mike Munchak (12 seasons -NFL HOF)
C- Jim Romano (5 seasons NFL)
RG-Sean Farrell (11 seasons NFL- All Pro)
RT- Pete Speros (2 seasons USFL)
TE- Mike McCloskey (3 seasons NFL)
The interior line was superior.
LT- Bill Contz (6 years NFL and author)
LG- Mike Munchak (12 seasons -NFL HOF)
C- Jim Romano (5 seasons NFL)
RG-Sean Farrell (11 seasons NFL- All Pro)
RT- Pete Speros (2 seasons USFL)
TE- Mike McCloskey (3 seasons NFL)
The interior line was superior.
If you listen to T Frank, he is saying that Franklin has focused on having an athletic OL. That strategy is changing under Trautwein, who is recruiting road graders. So, if you want an OL like WI, wait another couple of years and you should have one.
Menet was high 4* OL but did not develop and you can see weaker in his Combine results
I didn’t know that Trautwein was recruiting strength and toughness over athleticism. In general, I understand in today’s cfb that you need length and athleticism in most positions. Where imho it matters less is at defensive tackle and offensive line. I would rather have players that can’t be pushed around in those positions.
High school rankings can be very subjective. A quality recruit who plays in a rural area might not get the exposure but be a high level (4 or 5*) that folks outside of that area or region are not aware of. Good scouting/recruiting departments can find those hidden gems and develop them.
Maybe but they play from under center more than spread. Under center you can get a downhill running game going
If there is one criticism I have of Franklin its that he seems to fall in love with athleticism and hope it turns into good football acumen. I've seen it with LB'rs, DL and OL.
I think that approach is fine for skill players but not so much the meat and potato guys on the OL, DL and LB'rs. JMO.
What factor(s) make the PSU O-line less effective in the running game than the passing game? Clifford would be ranked in the top 20 if he hadn't gotten hurt so the passing game is doing pretty well (imho).
Strength and Conditioning -Is PSU just weaker and less conditioned than opponents? If so, why?
Run Blocking Technique - Is it poor teaching/coaching or are the players not using the techniques
being taught? Is the game too fast for them to use the techniques properly?
Offensive scheme - Is the overall play calling scheme too difficult or too simplified for the players to
grasp and execute at game speed? They seem to do fine pass blocking (mostly).
Mental Toughness - Are the PSU players just not "tough enough" mentally and need to be playing with
a mindset that nobody is going to beat me each and every play?
Running Backs - Is the O-line actually creating enough running space on certain plays but the running
backs just aren't hitting the holes fast enough or making the right cuts/decisions?
Strength and Conditioning -Is PSU just weaker and less conditioned than opponents? If so, why?
Run Blocking Technique - Is it poor teaching/coaching or are the players not using the techniques
being taught? Is the game too fast for them to use the techniques properly?
Offensive scheme - Is the overall play calling scheme too difficult or too simplified for the players to
grasp and execute at game speed? They seem to do fine pass blocking (mostly).
Mental Toughness - Are the PSU players just not "tough enough" mentally and need to be playing with
a mindset that nobody is going to beat me each and every play?
Running Backs - Is the O-line actually creating enough running space on certain plays but the running
backs just aren't hitting the holes fast enough or making the right cuts/decisions?
YES! he's talked about it more than a few times at this point. And if people don't want to listen to it, I ask you to look back at Hack. He was looking very promising under BoB, but when CJF came in, he was the wrong kind of QB for CJF's offense. Different players fit different offense/defenses, and the OLs that have been on this team for the past 6-7 years have been lighter, quicker, and more athletic. Unless you have a generational back like #26, that doesn't work for a run game.
But it's not the same old story. You can't take lighter, more athletic OLmen and add weight just for the sake of adding weight to give them more bulk. it has to be GOOD weight. If you don't add good weight, they lose athleticism, then you just have an OL that isn't athletic and can't run block. You need to have the right frame and size to begin with, and that's what Traut is recruiting. It's just going to take time to get them in and in playing condition.
I know the "just wait" comment has been just like us eagles fans saying (pre-18) "maybe next year" but it's true. Before, it was "just wait" but the OLmen were still light and athletic and nothing changed except "maybe they'll gel and play better together". Now it's "just wait" and the incoming OLmen are straight up ROAD GRADERS.
and i'm ignoring your last comment....
Its a 3 pronged sword. OL is not very good, TE's have not been very good at blocking and the RB's are slow and seem to lack the "vision" of finding the holes, because yes there are holes there they just closer really fast.
S&C: Not sure any of us can answer that but we do seem to do better with skill players than the meat and potato guys. I will say this though our run game was better last year with virtually the same OL so IMO its not S&C or a very small part. Although IMO our Center has been the "weakest" point of the group.
Scheme: seems to have some merit.
RB's: yes they are part of the Problem.
It will be a big off season for Franklin, Traut, Seider and Howle to get the run game fixed. Its just unacceptable and we will not win anything until it is.
I’m not sure that you are really disagreeing with me. I said the problem may lay at the feet of the strength and conditioning staff as opposed to the coaches.YES! he's talked about it more than a few times at this point. And if people don't want to listen to it, I ask you to look back at Hack. He was looking very promising under BoB, but when CJF came in, he was the wrong kind of QB for CJF's offense. Different players fit different offense/defenses, and the OLs that have been on this team for the past 6-7 years have been lighter, quicker, and more athletic. Unless you have a generational back like #26, that doesn't work for a run game.
But it's not the same old story. You can't take lighter, more athletic OLmen and add weight just for the sake of adding weight to give them more bulk. it has to be GOOD weight. If you don't add good weight, they lose athleticism, then you just have an OL that isn't athletic and can't run block. You need to have the right frame and size to begin with, and that's what Traut is recruiting. It's just going to take time to get them in and in playing condition.
I know the "just wait" comment has been just like us eagles fans saying (pre-18) "maybe next year" but it's true. Before, it was "just wait" but the OLmen were still light and athletic and nothing changed except "maybe they'll gel and play better together". Now it's "just wait" and the incoming OLmen are straight up ROAD GRADERS.
and i'm ignoring your last comment....
fair. i'm disagreeing that it's a S&C issue because the baseline OL that Galt is working with aren't built to be road graders. I feel the problem lies in the types of OLmen that they've been recruiting, being that they're lighter more athletic OLmen that don't have the frames to hold road grader weight.
I believe Penn State has outrushed Iowa every year since 2015, which was a year in which Penn State was dealing with severe shortages of offensive linemen due to the sanctions. This year, so far, they are essentially even. Iowa's offensive lines have been awful in recent years.
Oh this takes me back. The argument over how weak our High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) was lit this board up every fall once conference play kicked in.
how about just some tenacity? Remember sterling jenkins or Antonio Logan-El? Two 6’ 7” blue chip teddy bears. Probably awesome guys to hang out with, but not great dealing with nasty defensive ends pounding on you all game.
you cant really pick on those 2 guys. Sterling Jenkins didnt really have the 'feet' (athleticism) to be a D1 OL. ALE found things that interested him more than playing football.
Do you really believe this? Sounds like the check is in the mail. We have been soooo bad for years and incredibly we have gotten worse this year. I hope you are right but I think the issue may be with Franklin, his offensive philosophy and overall culture he instills. Not saying he has built a bad culture but I believe it is one lacking in toughness and grit thus not sure a guy like Trautwein can magically unwind it. I think it is bigger and more complex than getting some of the guys Trautwein likes into the program.
I get that point. Problem is that looking at the track record, by time Trautwein has his players ready to contribute he will be moved out for somebody else.
Also, wouldn’t it be the job of the S&C department to develop systems to address each group as needed?
You can also point to recruiting, where CJF has failed to deliver on his promise to "Dominate the State."
247sports.com
Of the 247 top offensive linemen in the class of 2022, Penn State can lay claim to 3:
#20 Drew Shelton (Downingtown)
#65 Andre Roye (St Francis - Baltimore)
#104 Maleek McNeil (Walter Panas, New York)
But:
#70 Ryan Brubaker (Cocalico, Denver) -- South Carolina
#79 Coltin Deery (Malvern Prep) -- Maryland
#80 Jalen Klemm (Pine Richland) -- uncomitted
#118 Justin Kanyuh (Bethlehem Catholic) -- North Carolina
#146 Braelin Moore (Freedom Bethlehem) -- Virginia Tech
And a handful of others from traditional recruiting areas of Virginia, Maryland, Ohio, and New Jersey, like #3 Zach Rice (Lynchburg VA going to UNC).
Just saying, recruiting can be a lot better....don't get me started on Nolan Rucci.
2022 Top Offensive Line Recruits
The 247Sports rankings are determined by our recruiting analysts after countless hours of personal observations, film evaluation and input from our network of scouts.
247sports.com
Of the 247 top offensive linemen in the class of 2022, Penn State can lay claim to 3:
#20 Drew Shelton (Downingtown)
#65 Andre Roye (St Francis - Baltimore)
#104 Maleek McNeil (Walter Panas, New York)
But:
#70 Ryan Brubaker (Cocalico, Denver) -- South Carolina
#79 Coltin Deery (Malvern Prep) -- Maryland
#80 Jalen Klemm (Pine Richland) -- uncomitted
#118 Justin Kanyuh (Bethlehem Catholic) -- North Carolina
#146 Braelin Moore (Freedom Bethlehem) -- Virginia Tech
And a handful of others from traditional recruiting areas of Virginia, Maryland, Ohio, and New Jersey, like #3 Zach Rice (Lynchburg VA going to UNC).
Just saying, recruiting can be a lot better....don't get me started on Nolan Rucci.
