Magic as of now is def above curry and the only one else u can argue is Oscar. But Stockton? Really? He didn’t even win a ring and curry is going on 4
Official Steph Curry is GOAT thread
- Thread starter justanotherguy505
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Stockton (10x All-star) is the all time NBA leader in assists (15,806) and steals (3,265). He also made the NBA all defensive team five times (something Curry has never done once). Curry's assist and steals totals are 5,388 and 1,367 respectively which put him outside of the all time top 50 in both categories. Curry is a better three point shooter and scorer (20,064 career points) but Stockton could score too (19,711 career points). Stockton was the more complete player.
Curry's rings only happen when his teams are loaded with all stars. So those are team accomplishments to me. It is also interesting that Curry was never the finals MVP on any of those championship teams (Durant (2) and Iguodala).
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I think what you're seeing is that many of us look at rings as a team achievement. Steph Curry (and all of GSW for that matter) winning titles as a super team, doesn't carry anymore weight or impress me any more, than guys like Luka and Harden carrying teams with half the talent to playoff runs and finals. The entire GSW team aren't just automatically better basketball players than everyone on the Mavs.. they are just more accomplished.
Rings are a team achievement, they tell me absolutely nothing about whether player x is better than player y.
.. which is why I've always said.. I want to see what Curry can do when he doesn't have overwhelming talent around him. And the one chance we had to see that.. when Klay was out for 2 years and Green was also in and out.. Curry got hurt almost IMMEDIATELY, and we never got to see what he could do, when teams are keying in on him and he has to carry the load. And IIRC, he could have come back later in the season with his hand injury, but he (and GSW) essentially forfeited the season.
"Rings are a team achievement, they tell me absolutely nothing about whether player x is better than player y." I agree mostly, I am arguing more from the aspect of top 5 "greatest" PG of all time. If you are arguing the best players in NBA history KD honestly takes that in a landslide and anyone who tries to argue otherwise doesnt know what they are talking about. Curry also has 2 MVP's to Oscar's. At the end of the day, everyone in the league is playing to win an NBA championship, I dont care who you play with and how good your team is, if you win rings averaging 25+ like Curry did it boosts your resume regardless. This year Curry really doesnt have "overwhelming talent" around him. He has a really good team dont get me wrong but when it comes down to it the Celtics who they might play in the finals have a good argument to be the more "talented" team.
You think KD is the best player in history?
Curry might not have overwhemling talent to the likes of 2018 (which was the most talented roster in NBA history).. but the GSW still have FAR more talent than any other team, especially seeing as other teams have injuries all over. Keep in mind Klay is still coming back after being gone for 2 years. Curry, Klay, Draymond.. the same core for the last decade. Then you add Wiggins, Poole and Looney as the best 4 through 6 in the NBA.. and on TOP of all that, you still have the deepest bench with guys like Payton, Kuminga, Porter.
Like someone said above.. swap Curry and Luka if you want to see just how bad the talent gap is.
That’s one of those deceptive stats - wasn’t he out like 2 years with injuries.Klay was the real missing piece, anyways:
That’d be like saying Jordan went to 6 straight finals
Oh for sure.
But.. steph curry hasn't been there with out him (I don't believe). He's certainly more important, and closer to Currys level, than people would believe.
IMO, he isn't even in the conversation as greatest player.
I saw in passing that ESPN had a question scroll across whatever afternoon show is on asking "if Curry wins another title is he the greatest PG of all-time?" NO!!!!
GSW having "far" more talent than any other team is just very innacurate to put it nicely. They are a really good team but you are overrating them when you paint them in that light. Klay and Draymond are not near what they were in 2015. Klay is coming off a 2 year break and has clearly regressed by a good amount on defense (and his offensive numbers have dipped). Draymond went from dropping 30 in finals games to literally being scared to look at the hoop on offense. Wiggins and Poole are great secondary players, but both have been pretty inconsistent. Lets just put them up against Boston
Curry>Smart
Klay<Brown
Wiggins<Tatum
Green>Horford
Looney<Rob Williams
Boston inarguably really has 2 of the top 3 players between the 2 teams and you could definitely make the argument that Tatum is the best overall. And when you go 3 deep on the bench I would lean GSW very slightly but it is prob a toss up when you compare Poole, Porter, and Moody to D White, Grant Williams, and Pritchard. I could do this with a couple other teams as well but the main point is that the Warriors dont have this insane talent advantage that is carrying Curry over the league like you portray.
But wasn’t that the year he came out of retirement like halfway thru the season as #45 so that’s my point you can skew these headlines as you see fit
So if that’s what you are saying you putting your money on Boston?
No, because the more talented team doesn't always win and I will take the team with guys who have experience in the Finals and have won it before.
The Warriors have three current all stars plus Klay ( 5x all star). They also sport a very deep bench. Who else in the Western Conference has that much talent 8 deep? Certainly not Denver, Dallas or Memphis without Ja.
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I agree, they are more talented than Denver, Dallas, and Memphis, but at some point nit picking and going down each roster between 2 highly talented teams like some do with Steph just to say "I dont give this guy as much credit" because he had a more talented team is just silly.
Well not necessarily - at one point in the 3rd quarter GS was blowing Dallas out with curry only having 5 points so that’s a nice luxury to have for him.
Yes, Dallas is a team carried by a generational player in Doncic, they are not that talented as a whole.
Yes, but Jordan physically played the games and lost to the magic. My understanding is klay didn't Play and lose the past 2 years?
I get it though. They sucked bad 2 years ago and last year too regardless.
Goes down 6 with under 4 min to go.. bricks a 3. Curry is pretty damn un-clutch for being the greatest shooter ever.
Also sulked big time after the shot.
Also sulked big time after the shot.
Steph can’t do it all; I mean the bench went -7 in like 2 minutes. Then Horford and White decided to hit threes like Steph. Celtics went on a 37-11 run in the fourth. Geez.
Celtics got ridiculously hot. Happens. Be interesting to see if they can keep that up.
I still think the Warriors win, but it might go the distance now. Curry cooled off but the Celtics were hitting everything. Curry was still the best player on the floor.
Steph did seem to turn his ankle.. but that highlights everything I've said.. when your main game is being a shooter, and your team is better than everyone else.. you have the luxury to play like it's a YMCA night league.. You're up 25, everyone's laughing, and you don't have to grind..
When Curry finally plays a great team that's healthy, he has to work for it. And when that happens, you push your body to the limit and injuries happen. Wear and tear sets in.
If Curry doesn't have the overwhelmingly better team, he becomes very pedestrian. Not clutch, doesn't like to really mix it up, and he wears down. When the odds were stacked against him in the last 5 minutes, he absolutely folded.
When Curry finally plays a great team that's healthy, he has to work for it. And when that happens, you push your body to the limit and injuries happen. Wear and tear sets in.
If Curry doesn't have the overwhelmingly better team, he becomes very pedestrian. Not clutch, doesn't like to really mix it up, and he wears down. When the odds were stacked against him in the last 5 minutes, he absolutely folded.
Wow, Smurf Curry sucked on defense tonight. He couldn't guard Tatum or Smart. He was good on offense though. Green was absolutely terrible tonight. Boston appears to be the longer more athletic team. However, GS has the experience factor. The series could go either way.
Smart took him to the rim multiple times and bullied him, poor effort from curry on that end. Draymond quite possibly had the worst finals performance I can remember from any relevant player. He, Wiggins, and Poole let Curry and klay down big time, those 2 did enough for GSW to win that game.
I mean the Celtics were allowed to play by the Jordan rules against Steph, but yet, he made seven jump shots in a row and 10-13 shots overall during a stretch. Steph did his part; where were the others tonight? Steph is gonna have to drag this team to a championship. Klay was ok tonight.
Steph is CARRYING the Warriors right now; his teammates have been terrible. Steph is shooting 47-94 for the series and 25-51 from the three. We're seeing GOAT performances from Steph, despite not getting any calls. If the refs would call fouls, he would average close to 40 ppg in this series. In the third quarter of the last two games, he has shot 11-15 from the floor and 8-10 from the three (!). If you add in the first quarter of game one, he has shot 19-24, with 14-17 threes if you exclude the heave (and that's with him missing the first three). Simply unstoppable. We've never seen Greatness like this before. Sure, Jordan has scored more points, but did he have to drag his team to victory like Steph has? What if Steph got the calls that Jordan got? He has scored 30+ in three of the four games (the only game that he did not, he sat the entire fourth quarter). He has scored 25+ through three quarters in every game. We're witnessing GOAT play from Steph.
Steph has an off night, but still leads his team to another win. He impacted the game despite shooting poorly. He was still 7-13 on two’s. His career high in made threes in a game came immediately after he shot 0-10 from the three. Boston better watch out. Steph is flat out owning Tatum in this series (what else is new?).
I think it's time to discuss this; Steph gets his Finals MVP with the Greatest Finals Performance of all-time. Shot nearly 50%, averaged 31ppg, shot better than 50% in every road game, absolutely owned Tatum in every facet, insane passing, insane defense (and blocked Tatum), and insane leadership. This performance rivals any performances that Michael Jordan or Lebron would have had. Steph Curry solidified his position of at least a top five player of all-time, if not the GOAT. He deserves respect. Not a fan of the Warriors, but you cannot deny greatness; this Warriors team wasn't great, but Steph dragged them to this championship. Tatum is not a superstar by any means. He might not even be top 15.
That was of the worst finals games .. Tatum was historically bad. Did not even deserve to be on the court. Truly look like he had $ on the Warriors.
Nobody tell the cal at all cost people about Golden State winning. You know I have to agree with Denny Crum that this three-point thing is just a phase.