OL/DL
- Thread starter *Bleedingblue*
- Start date
Probably the most difficult positions to evaluate in this kind of setting. Not sure about the d-line, the offensive line overall looks much improved, especially the interior offensive line, if you're going solely off the game.
That one is hard to say. If anything, I'd say the OL had it over the DL by a bit. That doesn't mean that it was improved. I saw Elam get decleated by a WR (I think) that was a disappointment to me. His weight is around his middle so his CofG is too high. Denzil Ware looked good to me but I'm not sold on the rest of the DL.
I remember last season's spring game had some of the same comments and when we got into the season in the fall neither line looked very good.
I was hopping for some great optimism but from the comments in the game threads I didn't see too many glowing reviews of line play. Comments about the OT's being bad.
I think both lines will have a season much like last season.
I was hopping for some great optimism but from the comments in the game threads I didn't see too many glowing reviews of line play. Comments about the OT's being bad.
I think both lines will have a season much like last season.
1. Tate Leavitt is dissapointment to date...Very early but we all assumed he'd take an OT spot. But to see Cole Mosier ahead of him is a massive problem to me. Love Cole as a gritty walkon but he's better at OG with his size as he's a bit slow on edge rushers.
2. I think UK will be pretty good running team up front. GAA is a mauler up the gut, Ramsey is a huge dude and Toth is simply dependable and solid as they come. I really like UK using the QB run under Gran and I hope between an improved run game...that we'll use Conrad a ton to punish teams with play action.
3. I don't see how UK's DL can be labeled anything but a dissapointment. To be that bad vs. the run on 2nd team is abysmal.
2. I think UK will be pretty good running team up front. GAA is a mauler up the gut, Ramsey is a huge dude and Toth is simply dependable and solid as they come. I really like UK using the QB run under Gran and I hope between an improved run game...that we'll use Conrad a ton to punish teams with play action.
3. I don't see how UK's DL can be labeled anything but a dissapointment. To be that bad vs. the run on 2nd team is abysmal.
Id say OL>DL but just barely. Our tackles had no answer for Ware or Walker at times. However our inside OL was really good. With our stable of running backs we could be really good running wise this year. Plus with an improved QB we could potentially have a potent offense. Key word potentially.
Last season we seemed to do much better running the ball at times. Couldn't provide a pocket for very long though.
It was starters vs reserves. Nobody could block Ware but the starters didn't face him. Hard to say if Ware was that good or the reserve OL was that bad. Likewise the #1 OL provided good protection but they were up against the #2 DL.
Clearly troubling is how bad the first DL was against the run. Even worse the doesn't appear to be any improvement in containing the run. Both QBs got to the edge with ease. A fast QB will have 300 yards rushing .
The good news is our secondary is better than we thought. Also if we continue to throw to him Conrad will be all SEC.
Another observation is Juice Johnson struggled on the outside. He looks better in the slot like we used him last year.
Clearly troubling is how bad the first DL was against the run. Even worse the doesn't appear to be any improvement in containing the run. Both QBs got to the edge with ease. A fast QB will have 300 yards rushing .
The good news is our secondary is better than we thought. Also if we continue to throw to him Conrad will be all SEC.
Another observation is Juice Johnson struggled on the outside. He looks better in the slot like we used him last year.
Stoops claimed some of the perimeter running was a product of the scrimmage. There was no game planning and the defense was vanilla.
OL looked good in the run game. Even the 2nd unit OL was getting good push against the DL. Pretty alarming imo it our DL cant stop the run against the 2nd unit. Hopefully the 2nd unit is just THAT good, but I doubt it.
OTs struggled a bit in pass protection. The only bright spot for the DL imo
OTs struggled a bit in pass protection. The only bright spot for the DL imo
I wouldn't even say vanilla it was more like no flavor at all (non existent) except for Ware.
Elam looked terrible and is the #1 reason we can't stop the run. We'd be better off playing Regie Meant at NG (similar to what we did last season with CJ Johnson at NG).
I thought Cole Mosier looked like our best OT and seemed to move his feet better than last season. I wasn't impressed by Meadows, Wolfe, and Leavitt; any outside rusher with speed can run right by those guys. Landon Young will start at the other OT spot since he can move his feet, unlike the aforementioned 3 OTs.
The interior Oline is one of the best we've ever had and probably deep enough to redshirt Drake Jackson. Although since the OT spot is so bad, I wouldn't mind the coaches moving Toth to OT and using either Stallings or Jackson at Center. I think the coaches need to give Stenberg another shot at OT and he's probably the first guy Gran had in mind when he made his comments after the scrimmage. Meadows, Wolfe, and Leavitt will get our QB killed; they all play like their feet are glued to the field.
I thought Cole Mosier looked like our best OT and seemed to move his feet better than last season. I wasn't impressed by Meadows, Wolfe, and Leavitt; any outside rusher with speed can run right by those guys. Landon Young will start at the other OT spot since he can move his feet, unlike the aforementioned 3 OTs.
The interior Oline is one of the best we've ever had and probably deep enough to redshirt Drake Jackson. Although since the OT spot is so bad, I wouldn't mind the coaches moving Toth to OT and using either Stallings or Jackson at Center. I think the coaches need to give Stenberg another shot at OT and he's probably the first guy Gran had in mind when he made his comments after the scrimmage. Meadows, Wolfe, and Leavitt will get our QB killed; they all play like their feet are glued to the field.
Who were the 2nd team interior ol??
Did not get to watch and was scanning over this board and just wondered...
Saw where maggert mentioned GA,stenberg,stallings as having a good game!
You just named the 2nd team RG, LG, C, Leavitt was at LT, Wolfe at RT. Neither OT looked good on pass plays.
Yep and Leavitt was supposed to be all that and a bag of chips. He may be in time but Ware made him look very bad. So bad, that IMO they moved him to the opposite DE so as not to destroy Leavitt's confidence.
There's a flip slide to that. The offense was equally vanilla. Also what concerned wasn't the runs that did happen but the runs that didn't happen but would have in a real game. Several of the read options the proper read would have been for the QB to keep but he instead left it with the back. Had the QB kept it he would have trotted for 20 yards. We still look unprepared for a running QB.
Stoops did address the read-option in the post-game Q&A. He stated there are usually game plan adjustments that are implemented for that, and they did not do that for the game today.
One additional individual that stood out to me on a few plays was Kengera Daniel. He looked quick coming off the ball against several inside runs as well as a couple of inside pass rushes. On the runs, he didn't make the stop, but he appeared to push into the backfield and disrupt the play.
The offensive line looks improved, but not as much as I hoped. Toth is a true star now. Mosier is a great story, probably our 2nd best offensive lineman. The other guys really didn't impress me much. Leavitt can't be as bad as he played yesterday. The freshman Mason Wolfe caught my eye a couple of times with aggressive play. Eventually, Wolfe is going to be a player for us. But let's face it, Schlarman isn't getting it done. Our defensive line is a bigger concern. Elam and Pringle got handled most of the day. Elam can't move his feet. I was surprised by how poorly Meant and Miggins played. The young kid Kengera Daniel looks like a real SEC player though. We have a ton of linebackers. Denzil Ware and Kobie Walker were very impressive. Jordan Jones is a player, and I liked what I saw out of Eli Brown.
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You guys need to relax. Stoops does not pull punches he said the dline played well. You gotta realize this is a glorified scrimmage with no blitzing twisting stunting. Plus most of the yardage was Johnson and King running zone read stuff against a defense as vanilla as it gets. The starting dline is solid it's the depth we have concerns about.
My concerns about the DL were not allayed by this spring game performance. As I have stated many times in the past to the chagrin of some here, this teams roster has a huge hole in it as far as talent is concerned and the DL is that hole. It's going to need a lot of the oft prescribed development between now and our next SEC schedule. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the transfer from Nebraska.
Good point, and this raises a huge question. Of all the positions on the field, offensive line is the most likely position where a big walk on or an unknown recruit can improve into an NFL player over 5 years of college. If a guy already has the frame, he can get stronger and learn to move his feet. I can name a lot of good NFL offensive linemen who attended obscure colleges as unknown recruits. So this is the question. Is Cole Mosier going to become 1 of these heart warming development stories? Or, is Tate Leavitt just an overrated recruit? And if Leavitt is overrated, then why did Alabama, Auburn, and Oklahoma offer him scholarships? Maybe Leavitt just needs more time. Besides Leavitt, Kentucky has other 4 star linemen, GAA and Meadows. Nick Richardson was a 4 star too. I haven't figured out yet why Kentucky has a hard time developing highly regarded linemen, while unknowns like Toth, Haynes, Meyers, Mosier are doing better. Maybe because Schlarman was an inside player who understands centers and guards better than tackles. Maybe because the sample size is too small. Or maybe because Kentucky needs another offensive line coach. I don't know. But if Landon Young doesn't get developed right, or if Kentucky loses Jedrick Wills, more people will be wondering. Hope it doesn't come to that. But if you were Wills, and you could pick between Alabama, Ohio State, and Kentucky, how would you break down your decision? Would you make the same decision Landon Young made? Either way, that's going to be a very interesting and telling development.
Agree with everything said. Just do not think Elam will ever get into the condition needed to play at a high level. He has been at UK for 2 years now. He has all the resources available to him yet he still is not in the condition he needs to be in as a starting Junior. Makes you wonder how he would have done at Bama. Seems their S&C program is hardcore and he would have been pushed hard by the roster. At UK he has nobody pushing him at his position so it just makes me wonder if he is just too complacent or simply is not that good. He has to make the decision to get it together this summer or his dreams of playing in the NFL is not going to happen.
Defensive line and offensive tackle appear to be the remaining holes in the roster. The 2016 and 2017 classes may address the latter.
I'm relaxed. Our defensive line did not play well. Our starting defensive line has major questions.
If Gran/Hinshaw agree about an OL coaching weakness, I'm sure Stoops will hear about it next fall.
Sounds like you guys are warming up to the fact the the coaching on both lines could be improved a great deal. This is has been something I've been harping on for 2 years now.
So a solid consensus out of spring are:
1. If Leavitt is this far behind...both OT spots are still a major concern for UK. We lose Swindell and Cole was every further behind Swindle in terms of production. We all thought Leavitt would naturally own one and Meadows/Landon Young will battle for the other one. This looks like another year where our QBs are on ice skates on passing downs (and this will make 3 years of watching this crap go on) and fans go down the path of "is it the QB" or "is it moreso bad pass protection".
2. All of our DL spots look like a problem:
- NG....Elam doesn't look like the 2nd coming of Bama's mount Cody we imagined after 2 years of S&C. Pringle, even to the coaches, isn't ready for battling in trenches at NG.
- DT....Meant is a decent production and hoping year 3 is even more. We have no idea what lies beneath Meant at DT.
- DE...Miggins/Bell have been absolutely AWOL so far after 1 year and a spring drills behind them.
3. Kenegra Daniels could be a bright spot at DE. One of our higher rated kids and he has the look that he might be a solid part next year (my opinion is he needs another year to be truly ready to battle big time SEC OL).
4. We are very good up front up the middle on OL. Toth is solid as they come, GAA is a mauler and moving OG is a great move, Ramsey Meyers is a huge kid and going into year 3 could be our 2nd best OL behind Toth...plenty of depth as well. Haynes has played a ton, Stallings, etc...we're very good up the middle for years to come.
So out of 5 OL spots and 3 DL spots...we're solid on 3 OL and hoping at 1 DL spot. 2 OL spots look like another year of dumpster fire and probably 2 DL spots that we'll be very poor at again. Not really a good place to be in year 4 of Stoops era.
1. If Leavitt is this far behind...both OT spots are still a major concern for UK. We lose Swindell and Cole was every further behind Swindle in terms of production. We all thought Leavitt would naturally own one and Meadows/Landon Young will battle for the other one. This looks like another year where our QBs are on ice skates on passing downs (and this will make 3 years of watching this crap go on) and fans go down the path of "is it the QB" or "is it moreso bad pass protection".
2. All of our DL spots look like a problem:
- NG....Elam doesn't look like the 2nd coming of Bama's mount Cody we imagined after 2 years of S&C. Pringle, even to the coaches, isn't ready for battling in trenches at NG.
- DT....Meant is a decent production and hoping year 3 is even more. We have no idea what lies beneath Meant at DT.
- DE...Miggins/Bell have been absolutely AWOL so far after 1 year and a spring drills behind them.
3. Kenegra Daniels could be a bright spot at DE. One of our higher rated kids and he has the look that he might be a solid part next year (my opinion is he needs another year to be truly ready to battle big time SEC OL).
4. We are very good up front up the middle on OL. Toth is solid as they come, GAA is a mauler and moving OG is a great move, Ramsey Meyers is a huge kid and going into year 3 could be our 2nd best OL behind Toth...plenty of depth as well. Haynes has played a ton, Stallings, etc...we're very good up the middle for years to come.
So out of 5 OL spots and 3 DL spots...we're solid on 3 OL and hoping at 1 DL spot. 2 OL spots look like another year of dumpster fire and probably 2 DL spots that we'll be very poor at again. Not really a good place to be in year 4 of Stoops era.
I don't see it that way just yet. I think these coaches are like most coaches in that they need a certain level of talent to start with in the SEC. I don't think they've had a sufficient amount yet to see just what they can do. I think the OL is well on its way to gathering the necessary talent but the DL still needs help as far as talent goes.
Totally agree about Schlarman....he's got nothing done and wonder why he'd was offered in the first place and done nothing but make that decision look worse and worse.
I don't see anything wrong with Brumbaugh. CJ Johnson was really good this past year. Melvin Lewis was awful when he got here and was a solid SEC DL before he got hurt. Zadarius was a solid DE for 2 years and Bud was fantastic (even if he played OLB technically). I have no problem with Brumbaugh if anything is we've done a piss poor job recruiting DL under Stoops (which has been a 30 year problem at UK).
So to sum up your post---a coach doesn't look very good when he has to work with little experience and maybe less talent.
FWIW, Cole Mosier was hurt most/all of his SR of HS, KY Class A Walton-Verona at that. Location & injury impacted him getting any P5 offers. He'd have been worth an offer from Day 1 at UK. Serviceable as a RS SO & fighting for starting as JR is better than most OL guys..
To a point you're right...but IMO offensive line kids like Darrian Miller, Zach West, Toth, etc.. were not bad talents and we did nothing with them. It was night and day on the OL when Paul Dunn was let go and Jimmy Heggins took over. Heggins took kids like Zipp Duncan and Jason Leger and plugged them in as solid OL with no excuses.
To be fair...Melvin Lewis and CJ Johnson weren't that highly touted kids who turned out OK. Really only Elam looks like a kid who isn't living up to the hype under Brumbaugh and it feels like we get production out of kids even when not overly talented.
I just think for 3 years the OL has been holding back the UK team under Stoops....and year 4 looks the same. At some point, Schlarman has to make something out of his units...talent or not.
I agree. I was a big fan of Heggins! I'm not sold on Schlarman and wished we had kept our OL coach Joker had. But I'm willing to wait and see if Schlarman can coach the talented players he is responsible for recruiting to KY.
Looks like the next replay on the SEC channel is at 1AM Monday night, you could set a recorder.