OT: Anyone here follow golf?

[18IsTheMan]

Care to explain for us non-golf-followers what's going on the Saudi golf series? I just see headlines about it but don't really understand how it works. I see Dustin Johnson left PGA to play there. Does that mean he can't participate in any PGA events from now on?

 

[Cackmandu]

Nobody knows what the PGA is going to do, I assume they could ban them (with legal implications) or they could cave and let the guys come and go as they please! Bottom line, another company is paying more, so guys are bolting, it may come back to bite them in the butt if LIV folds!

 

[Fowlmoodin99]

The trend continues. Consider.....NIL in college, the transgender controversey in many sports, the PGA being assailed and perhaps split, the incredible growth of Soccer. Sports, as we knew it, is a while new ballgame.

 

[Sweetwatergolf]

Nobody knows what the PGA is going to do, I assume they could ban them (with legal implications) or they could cave and let the guys come and go as they please! Bottom line, another company is paying more, so guys are bolt, it may come back to bite them in the butt if LIV folds!

I do follow golf. I don't know if anyone knows for sure what will happen. I'm awaiting for the PGA to explain exactly where they go from here. Example, will these guys be able to play in the majors if they have an exemption, what happens if the resign and Saudi league folds?
Will be interesting to here their specific response.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Per Greg Norman, Tiger Woods turned down a high nine figure deal to join the league.

 

[USCBatgirl21]

I do follow golf. I don't know if anyone knows for sure what will happen. I'm awaiting for the PGA to explain exactly where they go from here. Example, will these guys be able to play in the majors if they have an exemption, what happens if the resign and Saudi league folds?
Will be interesting to here their specific response.

Same.
It almost feels like it will be more like exhibition golf. I imagine the novelty will wear off after time and they'll want to come back. It will be interesting to see what the PGA does.
I did see where the USGA is allowing those golfers to play in the US Open, if they qualify. Has the R&A said anything about those that resign playing in the Open Championship?

 

[Viennacock]

Care to explain for us non-golf-followers what's going on the Saudi golf series? I just see headlines about it but don't really understand how it works. I see Dustin Johnson left PGA to play there. Does that mean he can't participate in any PGA events from now on?

All I know is that there are some scarey mother F%#@ers running the new tour.

 

[KingWard]

Nobody knows what the PGA is going to do, I assume they could ban them (with legal implications) or they could cave and let the guys come and go as they please! Bottom line, another company is paying more, so guys are bolting, it may come back to bite them in the butt if LIV folds!

I don't know what legal implications there would be? No one has an unalienable right to be a member of the PGA Tour.

 

[ToddFlanders]

I think the baller move by the PGA would be to do nothing. It’s a gimmick league (54 holes, giant payouts, only 48 players each tourney) where players that are past their prime, but still have some left in the tank, are going to go pad their wallets in just a couple of years (probably earning more than they could in a decade on the PGA Tour where the purses are smaller, but the players much better).

I read somewhere that even the last place golfer nets at least $120,000 per tournament. In the Memorial Tournament last weekend you have to finish tied for 18th to net that much. 48th place made $42k.

But this has all the markings of something that will have great ratings for a couple of matches, and then everyone will want to go back to watching the best golfers in the world.

 

[KingWard]

I think the baller move by the PGA would be to do nothing. It’s a gimmick league (54 holes, giant payouts, only 48 players each tourney) where players that are past their prime, but still have some left in the tank, are going to go pad their wallets in just a couple of years (probably earning more than they could in a decade on the PGA Tour where the purses are smaller, but the players much better).

I read somewhere that even the last place golfer nets at least $120,000 per tournament. In the Memorial Tournament last weekend you have to finish tied for 18th to net that much. 48th place made $42k.

But this has all the markings of something that will have great ratings for a couple of matches, and then everyone will want to go back to watching the best golfers in the world.

You can't get around the fact that 72 holes at medal play identifies the best player. Excellence in that format is the only path to greatness. You already don't need to be great in order to make money in golf.

 

[Prestonyte]

You can't get around the fact that 72 holes at medal play identifies the best player. Excellence in that format is the only path to greatness. You already don't need to be great in order to make money in golf.

You don't have to be great to make money in many sports. But, golf is one tough sport.
I agree with Hale Irwin's quote, “Golf is the loneliest sport. You’re completely alone with every conceivable opportunity to defeat yourself. Golf brings out your assets and liabilities as a person. The longer you play, the more certain you are that a man’s performance is the outward manifestation of who, in his heart, he really thinks he is.”

 

[Viennacock]

You don't have to be great to make money in many sports. But, golf is one tough sport.
I agree with Hale Irwin's quote, “Golf is the loneliest sport. You’re completely alone with every conceivable opportunity to defeat yourself. Golf brings out your assets and liabilities as a person. The longer you play, the more certain you are that a man’s performance is the outward manifestation of who, in his heart, he really thinks he is.”

Agree with Hale. That said l, I play golf and Tennis. Tennis is just as difficult to make money and is more cut-throat than golf. Individual sports are tough. Some excel, others gravitate to team sports.

 

[18IsTheMan]

So is this basically like switching from the NFL to the CFL?

I don't know anything about golf. If these guys play in the Saudi league (or whatever you would call it) can they not play in PGA events?

It's reported on like this is a big deal, but I don't fully grasp why. Is it just that there's an upstart "competitor" to the PGA? Is it specifically that it's Saudi?

They must have plenty of money. Dustin Johnson was paid more to play with them than Tiger has earned in winnings in his entire career.

 

[Spinal Tap]

I don't believe the PGA has stated what they will do long term in regards to the LIV. It's a hot topic certainly.

Some think of the Saudi backed league as "Sports washing". Using their financial clout to establish themselves globally in a venture that would in some ways
distract from their image around human rights violations, etc. And they have big bucks to do it.

The Saudi government already established a long term contract with F1 to race there annually. I don't know much about it though. But it made a big splash when
it was announced.

 

[Prestonyte]

I don't believe the PGA has stated what they will do long term in regards to the LIV. It's a hot topic certainly.

Some think of the Saudi backed league as "Sports washing". Using their financial clout to establish themselves globally in a venture that would in some ways
distract from their image around human rights violations, etc. And they have big bucks to do it.

The Saudi government already established a long term contract with F1 to race there annually. I don't know much about it though. But it made a big splash when
it was announced.

Money talks, very loudly. Some broke the wall many had established by refusing the Saudi offer due to the human rights issue, strictly for the money.

 

[Uscg1984]

I don't follow soccer, but aren't a lot of European teams owned by various middle eastern royalty? I know at least one is owned by a Russian oligarch, right? Is there a single outrageous peep when elite American soccer players join one of these teams? It seems to me like a lot of the outrage directed at Mickelson and the idea of a Saudi-owned golf league is selective.

Having said that, I do think a paid-to-play league is less interesting to watch in the long term than one where the winnings are strictly performance based. I doubt I'll pay a lot of attention to this new league once the novelty wears off.

As for the long term of the PGA, I don't think it would be a bad idea for the PGA to establish some sort of travel/accommodation stipend for every tournament participant to help defray the economic hardships often experienced by the struggling newcomers on the tour. It's tough to work your whole life to make it to the highest level of your sport only to go in the hole financially paying for you and your caddy's travel expenses week after week until you finally break out with some high finishes. If the LIV tour turns out to be a success, it's only a matter of time before they expand the fields and start offering contracts to the younger, up-and-coming golfers. Having some modest guaranteed money for tournament participants may help the PGA head-off some troubles down the road.

 

[KingWard]

I don't follow soccer, but aren't a lot of European teams owned by various middle eastern royalty? I know at least one is owned by a Russian oligarch, right? Is there a single outrageous peep when elite American soccer players join one of these teams? It seems to me like a lot of the outrage directed at Mickelson and the idea of a Saudi-owned golf league is selective.

Having said that, I do think a paid-to-play league is less interesting to watch in the long term than one where the winnings are strictly performance based. I doubt I'll pay a lot of attention to this new league once the novelty wears off.

As for the long term of the PGA, I don't think it would be a bad idea for the PGA to establish some sort of travel/accommodation stipend for every tournament participant to help defray the economic hardships often experienced by the struggling newcomers on the tour. It's tough to work your whole life to make it to the highest level of your sport only to go in the hole financially paying for you and your caddy's travel expenses week after week until you finally break out with some high finishes. If the LIV tour turns out to be a success, it's only a matter of time before they expand the fields and start offering contracts to the younger, up-and-coming golfers. Having some modest guaranteed money for tournament participants may help the PGA head-off some troubles down the road.

That was the life of touring pros in past generations, and it yielded great and tough players among the survivors. It was natural selection in sports - as it should be. Must the entitlement mentality hold sway in this area as it now does in others? That would not be progress.

 

[Uscg1984]

That was the life of touring pros in past generations, and it yielded great and tough players among the survivors. It was natural selection in sports - as it should be. Must the entitlement mentality hold sway in this area as it now does in others? That would not be progress.

I wasn't speaking so much in terms of "progress," but in terms of what may be required for the PGA's long term viability. LIV's contract-golf is here, whether we like it or not. LIV may ultimately fail, but if it proves successful, it not going to be stagnant. And if it is successful, it will be a problem for the PGA tour.

 

[USCBatgirl21]

But this has all the markings of something that will have great ratings for a couple of matches, and then everyone will want to go back to watching the best golfers in the world.

Could not have said it better.

 

[GamecockMike]

Phil is being real careful here on what he says.

 

[ToddFlanders]

One question I have is what are these golfers hoping comes of this besides an easy payday? If that’s what they want - ok, I’m not going to disparage anyone making money while not harming others. But is there more to it?

 

[BattleshipTexas]

I don't know what legal implications there would be? No one has an unalienable right to be a member of the PGA Tour.

The way it would be attacked is antitrust law. Each event has separate ownership, i.e the Byron Nelson is controlled by the Dallas Salesmanship Club, the Colonial in Fort Worth by Colonial Country club, the Houston Open by the Astros Foundation, etc. If all those different organizations agree to ban a particular player, it could be called a "tying agreement" illegal under antitrust law. If you want to ban a player, that's fine. But if a bunch of organizations make agreements to ban someone, that brings antitrust into play.

 

[GcockNan13]

I think everyone thinking this is a gimmick league that’ll fold soon are vastly underestimating the pockets of the Saudis putting this together. We have a lot of rich people/companies who run the PGA Tour. Their money compared to what the Saudis can put together is puny. I’d rather watch PGA obviously but, even if this is a gimmick, the Saudis have enough money to waste on it for many years to come for it to continue to be a factor.

 

[Forkcock]

Phil is called "Hollywood" by players on the tour and it is not a term of endearment.
His moving over to that tour probably has more to do with his gambling debts.

 

[ToddFlanders]

I think everyone thinking this is a gimmick league that’ll fold soon are vastly underestimating the pockets of the Saudis putting this together. We have a lot of rich people/companies who run the PGA Tour. Their money compared to what the Saudis can put together is puny. I’d rather watch PGA obviously but, even if this is a gimmick, the Saudis have enough money to waste on it for many years to come for it to continue to be a factor.

Can't both be true? The league is a gimmick for sure (including the "team play" - which is just stupid), but the cost is a drop in the bucket for the Saudis. They could finance this for centuries. It almost seems like an elaborate scheme to launder money in the US. They're providing a product no one was asking for, and putting crazy amounts of money into it. Of course I don't trust anything the Saudis do - so I'm biased that way.

 

[GamecockMike]

Growing the game is just a front, it's just a money grab.can anyone point me to a video/article where they say how they intend to grow the game.The only the I see that's growing is bank accounts.

 

[KingWard]

The way it would be attacked is antitrust law. Each event has separate ownership, i.e the Byron Nelson is controlled by the Dallas Salesmanship Club, the Colonial in Fort Worth by Colonial Country club, the Houston Open by the Astros Foundation, etc. If all those different organizations agree to ban a particular player, it could be called a "tying agreement" illegal under antitrust law. If you want to ban a player, that's fine. But if a bunch of organizations make agreements to ban someone, that brings antitrust into play.

If they issue a ban, it won't be without consulting some of the best lawyers money can buy first.

 

[Cackmandu]

If they issue a ban, it won't be without consulting some of the best lawyers money can buy first.

Like legal implications?

 

[KingWard]

Like legal implications?

Those are a given because of the age we live in. The question is who will win. However confident you might be in your position, you want to know the strength of your hand before betting begins. The fact that a person sues doesn't mean that he/she is upheld. Membership on the PGA Tour is a privilege, not a right.

 

[KingWard]

The way it would be attacked is antitrust law. Each event has separate ownership, i.e the Byron Nelson is controlled by the Dallas Salesmanship Club, the Colonial in Fort Worth by Colonial Country club, the Houston Open by the Astros Foundation, etc. If all those different organizations agree to ban a particular player, it could be called a "tying agreement" illegal under antitrust law. If you want to ban a player, that's fine. But if a bunch of organizations make agreements to ban someone, that brings antitrust into play.

The PGA Tour is the sanctioning body regulating all things in its domain: who plays, who gets to host tournaments, and what rules are utilized. If the good-faith affiliation with players is going out the window, the simple answer will be contracts.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Yeah, so I don't understand golf at all.

Just read that guys playing for LIV can still play in the Master's and some other big tournaments b/c those tournaments aren't run by the PGA.

I think I need to retreat back into my golf-free world and quit trying to understand it.

 

[Forkcock]

Yeah, so I don't understand golf at all.

Just read that guys playing for LIV can still play in the Master's and some other big tournaments b/c those tournaments aren't run by the PGA.

I think I need to retreat back into my golf-free world and quit trying to understand it.

Anyone can play in The Masters, if invited.

 

[Spinal Tap]

And the PGA reacts:

The PGA Tour has suspended the 17 members who are competing in the inaugural LIV Golf International Series event, it announced Thursday.

Players who resigned their membership before starting the LIV Golf event being held outside London that began Thursday are also no longer eligible to compete in tour events or the Presidents Cup. Among those now banned from tour events are six-time major champion Phil Mickelson, two-time major champion Dustin Johnson and longtime Ryder Cup participants Ian Poulter, Lee Westwood and Sergio Garcia.

"These players have made their choice for their own financial-based reasons," PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan wrote in a memo to the tour's membership. "But they can't demand the same PGA TOUR membership benefits, considerations, opportunities and platform as you. That expectation disrespects you, our fans and our partners. You have made a different choice, which is to abide by the Tournament Regulations you agreed to when you accomplished the dream of earning a PGA TOUR card and -- more importantly -- to compete as part of the preeminent organization in the world of professional golf."

Players Suspended by PGA Tour​

The PGA Tour has suspended 17 current and former members who are participating in the inaugural LIV Golf event.

Sergio Garcia*
Talor Gooch
Branden Grace*
Dustin Johnson*
Matt Jones
Martin Kaymer*
Graeme McDowell*
Phil Mickelson
Kevin Na*
Andy Ogletree
Louis Oosthuizen*
Turk Pettit*
Ian Poulter
Charl Schwartzel*
Hudson Swafford
Peter Uihlein
Lee Westwood*
* Informed the PGA Tour that they had resigned their membership


Monahan wrote that any players who take part in future LIV Golf events will face the same punishment.

PGA Tour suspends LIV golfers from all events

The PGA Tour has suspended the 17 current and former members -- including Phil Mickelson, Dustin Johnson and Sergio Garcia -- who are taking part in the first LIV Golf tournament.

www.espn.com

 

[KingWard]

Anyone can play in The Masters, if invited.

Right now, you have two LIV players who are past champions and will certainly be invited.

 

[ToddFlanders]

And the PGA reacts:

The PGA Tour has suspended the 17 members who are competing in the inaugural LIV Golf International Series event, it announced Thursday.

Players who resigned their membership before starting the LIV Golf event being held outside London that began Thursday are also no longer eligible to compete in tour events or the Presidents Cup. Among those now banned from tour events are six-time major champion Phil Mickelson, two-time major champion Dustin Johnson and longtime Ryder Cup participants Ian Poulter, Lee Westwood and Sergio Garcia.

"These players have made their choice for their own financial-based reasons," PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan wrote in a memo to the tour's membership. "But they can't demand the same PGA TOUR membership benefits, considerations, opportunities and platform as you. That expectation disrespects you, our fans and our partners. You have made a different choice, which is to abide by the Tournament Regulations you agreed to when you accomplished the dream of earning a PGA TOUR card and -- more importantly -- to compete as part of the preeminent organization in the world of professional golf."

Players Suspended by PGA Tour​

The PGA Tour has suspended 17 current and former members who are participating in the inaugural LIV Golf event.

Sergio Garcia*
Talor Gooch
Branden Grace*
Dustin Johnson*
Matt Jones
Martin Kaymer*
Graeme McDowell*
Phil Mickelson
Kevin Na*
Andy Ogletree
Louis Oosthuizen*
Turk Pettit*
Ian Poulter
Charl Schwartzel*
Hudson Swafford
Peter Uihlein
Lee Westwood*
* Informed the PGA Tour that they had resigned their membership


Monahan wrote that any players who take part in future LIV Golf events will face the same punishment.

PGA Tour suspends LIV golfers from all events

The PGA Tour has suspended the 17 current and former members -- including Phil Mickelson, Dustin Johnson and Sergio Garcia -- who are taking part in the first LIV Golf tournament.

www.espn.com

This is interesting on a couple of levels. First, why would anyone resign their membership? Make them kick you out. Second, only 17 current and former PGA players? Where did they get the other 31 golfers for this weekend's tournament? I did read that one of the PGA guys who is ranked 1,000+ in the world, Andy Ogletree, shot +12 in the first round and is still guaranteed $120,000. That's not the kind stat that gets people interested in a sport.

 

[Sweetwatergolf]

This is interesting on a couple of levels. First, why would anyone resign their membership? Make them kick you out. Second, only 17 current and former PGA players? Where did they get the other 31 golfers for this weekend's tournament? I did read that one of the PGA guys who is ranked 1,000+ in the world, Andy Ogletree, shot +12 in the first round and is still guaranteed $120,000. That's not the kind stat that gets people interested in a sport.

I suspect some legal advise to resign membership. I'm by no means a legal expert, just my assumption.

 

[Viennacock]

Ricky Fowler joining. Rarely makes a cut or even qualified for events over the past couple of years. $120k has to be enticing.

 

[BattleshipTexas]

The PGA Tour is the sanctioning body regulating all things in its domain: who plays, who gets to host tournaments, and what rules are utilized. If the good-faith affiliation with players is going out the window, the simple answer will be contracts.

None of that protects them or the golf venues from antitrust law if they ban a player for playing with a competing group.

 

[BattleshipTexas]

If they issue a ban, it won't be without consulting some of the best lawyers money can buy first.

True, but often legal advice is not followed. Sometimes that advice is "you will be sued no matter what you do."

 

[KingWard]

True, but often legal advice is not followed. Sometimes that advice is "you will be sued no matter what you do."

Well, what we have going on here now involves suspensions. Now, some players have formally resigned the tour. To me, they have no recourse against the PGA Tour whatsoever.