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OT: Electric vehicles

M

mildone_rivals

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Dec 19, 2011
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jtung230 said:
Think they are rolling out a 2 door Taycan.
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Hadn't heard about that, although I've seen speculation about it from various places and some renders that look kind of Ford Mustang-esque to my eyes.


I know that they're introducing an EV version of the Macan soon. As well as EV versions of the Cayman (aka 718) line. But I didn't know they were introducing a 2-door Taycan. Seems... superfluous to me.
 
M

mildone_rivals

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Dec 19, 2011
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mildone said:
Hadn't heard about that, although I've seen speculation about it from various places and some renders that look kind of Ford Mustang-esque to my eyes.


I know that they're introducing an EV version of the Macan soon. As well as EV versions of the Cayman (aka 718) line. But I didn't know they were introducing a 2-door Taycan. Seems... superfluous to me.
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Was just catching up on some older Porsche Panarama magazines and what do I see? Looks like Porsche is saying the 998 generation 911 will be all electric. That’s two 911 generations out, with the 994 generation (the next one after the current 992) being hybrid (not plug-in) and starting production in 2026.

Last I’d heard, they weren’t planning an EV 911. Looks like that is no longer true.
 
B

BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap

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WTF is VW thinking?

Prototype: Yes, please



Production: Ugh, no thanks.
 
M

mildone_rivals

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Dec 19, 2011
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BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap said:
WTF is VW thinking?

Prototype: Yes, please



Production: Ugh, no thanks.
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Actually, pretty sure the prototype photo is not a prototype but a concept car, and probably not a photo so much as a rendering. And the sizing is clearly off. Look at the size of the person driving versus the rest of the vehicle. Unless it's an optical illusion, the vehicle would be unrealistically tall with a seating height that is unrealistically high off the ground.

As for the production photo, it looks like a production testing mule, not an actual production car. While I wouldn't expect it to look like the unrealistically sized concept images, I would expect it'll look somewhat nicer than the photo above.
 
F

fsg2_rivals

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mildone said:
Actually, pretty sure the prototype photo is not a prototype but a concept car, and probably not a photo so much as a rendering. And the sizing is clearly off. Look at the size of the person driving versus the rest of the vehicle. Unless it's an optical illusion, the vehicle would be unrealistically tall with a seating height that is unrealistically high off the ground.

As for the production photo, it looks like a production testing mule, not an actual production car. While I wouldn't expect it to look like the unrealistically sized concept images, I would expect it'll look somewhat nicer than the photo above.
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That photo is a concept, but that's exactly what the physical concept looked like, surfboards and all.
 
Knight Shift

Knight Shift

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May 19, 2011
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mildone said:
Unfortunately, Trump ushered in a whole new era of even lower low-information ideology than we had prior to him. But I don’t associate it with the R party itself for a few reasons:

(1) There are plenty of low information, low intelligence, purely ideological voters on both sides of the aisle, albeit not usually with respect to the same exact issues.

(2) Plenty of my R friends are not particularly ideological, and didn't vote for Trump either both times or at least the second time. So a broad generalization firmly associating Trumperism with Rs is actually invalid.

(3) Right or wrong, any generalized demonization of either party for any reasons only serves to further cement people into their positions, inflame and polarize our nation. Such demonization clearly has nothing but negative impacts on the country. So I avoid it as a firm rule.

I view Trumperism as a serious problem that's independent of politics or political party. For me, it's entirely about the man and his obvious, extreme and unique (among prior presidents) lack of fitness for the job.

Yes, there may be certain valid correlations to be made (and some can be made for members of both parties). But making them is unhelpful at best, and more likely harmful.
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Not to derail the thread, but how do you view the current President and fitness for the job? Consider management of the border, Afghanistan, the pandemic, and current spike in crime and supply chain issues and inflation.
 
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Knight Shift

Knight Shift

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Bleem Phuppert said:
Rachel Carson was hailed as a hero through the early 60s.

If she were alive today she would be an outcast and a pariah.

Sometimes "settled science" can change. Such is the nature of science. What's particularly weak is the anti-science arguments based on a presumption of change, while ignoring facts in support of the science.

Science, y'all.
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There is only one science right now and it's name is Fauci. Just ask him.

Another good example of settled science changing is the food pyramid and so-called science behind it pushed by the government since the 1950s. It was so-called science pushed by zoologist Ancel Keys, which is largely responsible for the obesity and diabetes epidemic. But it has been fantastic for big food and big pharma companies. When big corps co-opt scientific policy, their is usually more than science driving that policy.
 
R

RUevolution36

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Knight Shift said:
There is only one science right now and it's name is Fauci. Just ask him.

Another good example of settled science changing is the food pyramid and so-called science behind it pushed by the government since the 1950s. It was so-called science pushed by zoologist Ancel Keys, which is largely responsible for the obesity and diabetes epidemic. But it has been fantastic for big food and big pharma companies. When big corps co-opt scientific policy, their is usually more than science driving that policy.
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Climate science has come to the same conclusion across administrations from both parties across multiple decades.
 
M

mildone_rivals

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Knight Shift said:
Not to derail the thread, but how do you view the current President and fitness for the job? Consider management of the border, Afghanistan, the pandemic, and current spike in crime and supply chain issues and inflation.
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Trump was unfit because of how his every public utterance was 100% driven by his own self interest. He was unfit due to his nonstop abrasive demonization of our national institutions such as the intelligence community when they opposed him in any way. Because of his generalized and highly unpresidential demonization of a great many of his fellow Americans. For his willingness to leverage the worst human traits in others for his own self interest. And for his unceasing efforts to divide the nation.

Not for his executive orders or his legislative actions. Not because of the pandemic. Not because of any specific policies, regardless of if I agreed with them or not. For example, I disagreed with a lot, but not all, of his foreign policies. But that is NOT part of why I consider him unfit. I disagree with, or am highly skeptical of the value of, lots of policies of all presidents, regardless of party.

Biden appears to be similar to all the other presidents we’ve had, of both parties. He is deeply flawed, highly imperfect, and is surely making tons of mistakes all the time. And, like all those other presidents, of both parties, except Trump, he tries to avoid intentionally generalized demonization of large groups of his fellow Americans, or broad demonization of our intelligence agencies or of other US institutions.

Biden seems about as unfit to be president as almost every other president in modern history, except Trump,which is to say somewhat unfit. Trump was far more unfit than all the rest combined. I was equally fine with pretty much all those other presidents, regardless of party.

I can say this, with Biden, as with all presidents: I am very glad that we have term limits.
 
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mildone said:
Biden appears to be similar to all the other presidents we’ve had, of both parties. He is deeply flawed, highly imperfect, and is surely making tons of mistakes all the time. And, like all those other presidents, of both parties, except Trump, he tries to avoid intentionally generalized demonization of large groups of his fellow Americans, or broad demonization of our intelligence agencies or of other US institutions.

I can say this, with Biden, as with all presidents: I am very glad that we have term limits.
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I agree with most of what you said except the bold. Glad Trump is gone. Had hopes that Biden would bring the country together, but has been equally or more divisive than any other modern President. His comments lately trying to drum up support for a voting rights bill are terribly divisive, claiming that being against the Democrats’ version of voting rights in 2022 is equivalent to being for Jim Crow 2.0. Really?

And the polls show this, namely independent voters.


It's a shame that Bernie Sanders got screwed over twice by his own party. Hew would have been a much better President than the current one.

As far as demonization of our intelligence agencies, of course he doesn't-- he uses them against his political opponents, unlike any other President in modern history.

This is my last post on this, as I don't want to derail this thread. How about the $39,000 Chevy Silverado electric pickup truck?
 
M

mdk02

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Aug 18, 2011
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mildone said:
Trump was unfit because of how his every public utterance was 100% driven by his own self interest. He was unfit due to his nonstop abrasive demonization of our national institutions such as the intelligence community when they opposed him in any way. Because of his generalized and highly unpresidential demonization of a great many of his fellow Americans. For his willingness to leverage the worst human traits in others for his own self interest. And for his unceasing efforts to divide the nation.

Not for his executive orders or his legislative actions. Not because of the pandemic. Not because of any specific policies, regardless of if I agreed with them or not. For example, I disagreed with a lot, but not all, of his foreign policies. But that is NOT part of why I consider him unfit. I disagree with, or am highly skeptical of the value of, lots of policies of all presidents, regardless of party.

Biden appears to be similar to all the other presidents we’ve had, of both parties. He is deeply flawed, highly imperfect, and is surely making tons of mistakes all the time. And, like all those other presidents, of both parties, except Trump, he tries to avoid intentionally generalized demonization of large groups of his fellow Americans, or broad demonization of our intelligence agencies or of other US institutions.

Biden seems about as unfit to be president as almost every other president in modern history, except Trump,which is to say somewhat unfit. Trump was far more unfit than all the rest combined. I was equally fine with pretty much all those other presidents, regardless of party.

I can say this, with Biden, as with all presidents: I am very glad that we have term limits.
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Peggy Noonan's (no Trump fan) column in this weekend's WSJ is unbelievably on target and is a must read. For Smerconish fans he commented on an excerpt this morning.
 
M

mildone_rivals

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Knight Shift said:
So, did policy not foresee the growing need for lithium and securing domestic supply? 3/4 of battery production is from China. Actions being taken now, but is it too little, too late?

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There are always questionable policy problems with every presidency. I don't have a lean, so I'm happy to accept that Biden will have many of them. Just like Trump, and Obama, and Bush, etc. I also, because I don't have a lean, don't have to get more upset about those from one side while excusing those from another.

The job is hard. There are going to be countless mistakes of policy, of speech, of conduct, etc. That was true for George Washington and it'll be true of every person who holds the office forever.

I also don't have to play the blame game. Most of the time, the stuff partisans try to blame on a particular president were problems that started long before the president takes office and much of the blame can be fairly laid at several of their predecessors of both parties.

Was it Trump's fault that our nation was ill prepared for a pandemic? Was it Obama's fault that our nation was ill-prepared for what happened in Benghazi? Was it Bush's fault that our nation was ill prepared for the terrorist attack on 9/11?

The fair unbiased don't care about party politics answer is: yes and no. There are usually some elements of truth to these sorts of blame questions. But there are also almost always many other factors that are usually ignored or deprecated out of hand when they don't fit someone's particular party narrative.
 
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WhichReligionIsRight

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Knight Shift said:
I agree with most of what you said except the bold. Glad Trump is gone. Had hopes that Biden would bring the country together, but has been equally or more divisive than any other modern President. His comments lately trying to drum up support for a voting rights bill are terribly divisive, claiming that being against the Democrats’ version of voting rights in 2022 is equivalent to being for Jim Crow 2.0. Really?

And the polls show this, namely independent voters.


It's a shame that Bernie Sanders got screwed over twice by his own party. Hew would have been a much better President than the current one.

As far as demonization of our intelligence agencies, of course he doesn't-- he uses them against his political opponents, unlike any other President in modern history.

This is my last post on this, as I don't want to derail this thread. How about the $39,000 Chevy Silverado electric pickup truck?
Click to expand...

No president in American history has been as consistently divisive as Donald Trump. Other presidents may be divisive at times, but can't recall others being an absolute clownish troll.
 
M

mildone_rivals

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Knight Shift said:
Yeah, that is really cool:



Much nicer looking than the prototype of the Cyborg Wedge by Tesla:

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That is a very nice looking truck, in that second photo. Except the wheels. I have yet to see wheels on an EV that don't look awful to my eyes. Guess I am slow to adapt when it comes to wheel styles.
 
M

mildone_rivals

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WhichReligionIsRight said:
No president in American history has been as consistently divisive as Donald Trump. Other presidents may be divisive at times, but can't recall others being an absolute clownish troll.
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That is, unfortunately, true. It's also, also unfortunately, why a lot of his followers like him. They think a president should behave the way we behave on an internet forum.

People will say you and I hate Trump. I cannot speak for you, but that's just not true for me. Yeah, I think he was the worst president this nation has ever seen. And I think he's unfit to be a leader of men. I'd never work for him, or do a business deal with him, for any amount of money.

But I could easily hang out with the guy and could even be friends with him. We'd probably agree on a whole range of subjects. I can easily overlook his personality flaws as a friend. Just not as a president.
 
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Knight Shift

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mildone said:
There are always questionable policy problems with every presidency. I don't have a lean, so I'm happy to accept that Biden will have many of them. Just like Trump, and Obama, and Bush, etc. I also, because I don't have a lean, don't have to get more upset about those from one side while excusing those from another.

The job is hard. There are going to be countless mistakes of policy, of speech, of conduct, etc. That was true for George Washington and it'll be true of every person who holds the office forever.

I also don't have to play the blame game. Most of the time, the stuff partisans try to blame on a particular president were problems that started long before the president takes office and much of the blame can be fairly laid at several of their predecessors of both parties.

Was it Trump's fault that our nation was ill prepared for a pandemic? Was it Obama's fault that our nation was ill-prepared for what happened in Benghazi? Was it Bush's fault that our nation was ill prepared for the terrorist attack on 9/11?

The fair unbiased don't care about party politics answer is: yes and no. There are usually some elements of truth to these sorts of blame questions. But there are also almost always many other factors that are usually ignored or deprecated out of hand when they don't fit someone's particular party narrative.
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I did not assign blame to any one administration. Energy policy should involve planning for the future. This was raised early in this thread or the original thread that got locked, but there are still significant environmental issues with lithium mining. There are other battery technologies (non-lithium) that may supplant lithium, and the problem may self-right itself. The biggest lithium producer in Nevada is facing severe opposition to expand.

 
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BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap

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WhichReligionIsRight said:
Sandy Munro is terrific - highly knowledgeable. Look for his videos where he literally takes apart Teslas and other EVs.
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100%. His teardown videos are top shelf.

NASA called Munro and Associates a "workshop of innovation". They've been contracted to work on cars, planes, boats, and military equipment.

Ignore the one guy on here who tries to discredit his expertise (despite never hearing of him before) because Sandy admires the engineering teams at Tesla.
 
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BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap

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Knight Shift said:
So, did policy not foresee the growing need for lithium and securing domestic supply? 3/4 of battery production is from China. Actions being taken now, but is it too little, too late?

Click to expand...
Thanks for the link, but we don't need to worry about lithium. Despite the name "lithium ion battery", there's very little lithium in these cells.

The cathode material is the problem and the reason we're going to see bottlenecks in cell production. Nickel and cobalt specifically. For this reason, most Chinese EVs are using LFP cells, which use iron as the cathode material. Tesla is now using LFP cells in all of their standard range vehicles. No problem sourcing iron; it's everywhere.

The semiconductor shortage is/was a short term issue. Long term, it's battery cells. The transition to EVs is going to require an insane amount of batteries. LFPs need to be a part of this story.
 
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Knight Shift

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BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap said:
Thanks for the link, but we don't need to worry about lithium. Despite the name "lithium ion battery", there's very little lithium in these cells.

The cathode material is the problem and the reason we're going to see bottlenecks in cell production. Nickel and cobalt specifically. For this reason, most Chinese EVs are using LFP cells, which use iron as the cathode material. Tesla is now using LFP cells in all of their standard range vehicles. No problem sourcing iron; it's everywhere.

The semiconductor shortage is/was a short term issue. Long term, it's battery cells. The transition to EVs is going to require an insane amount of batteries. LFPs need to be a part of this story.
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But there is still not a domestic producer of LFP cells, correct? I see Tesla is trying to support domestic manufacturing.
 
B

BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap

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Knight Shift said:
But there is still not a domestic producer of LFP cells, correct? I see Tesla is trying to support domestic manufacturing.
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Correct. No US LFP suppliers for auto. CATL (China) is the world's largest producer of LFP cells for autos. BYD auto (China) makes their own LFPs for their vehicles. There's a few more LFP suppliers from China.

Tesla will eventually make their own LFPs. I don't see them partnering with anyone domestically since Tesla is already miles ahead of any future US supplier.
Currently, they're working on scaling up production of their own 4680 cells(width 46 mm, length 80 mm) which use nickel. They also have huge contracts with Panasonic and LG Chem for nickel based cells and CATL for iron based.
 
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Knight Shift

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BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap said:
Correct. No US LFP suppliers for auto. CATL (China) is the world's largest producer of LFP cells for autos. BYD auto (China) makes their own LFPs for their vehicles. There's a few more from China.

Tesla will eventually make their own LFPs.
Currently, they're working on scaling up production of their own 4680 cells(width 46 mm, length 80 mm) which use nickel. Right now, they have contracts with Panasonic and LG Chem for nickel based cells and CATL for iron based.
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Will be interesting to see how that works out- the vertical integration. With EVs, vertical integration is much more possible with fewer spare parts.
 
L

Letitrip

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mildone said:
Trump was unfit because of how his every public utterance was 100% driven by his own self interest. He was unfit due to his nonstop abrasive demonization of our national institutions such as the intelligence community when they opposed him in any way. Because of his generalized and highly unpresidential demonization of a great many of his fellow Americans. For his willingness to leverage the worst human traits in others for his own self interest. And for his unceasing efforts to divide the nation.

Not for his executive orders or his legislative actions. Not because of the pandemic. Not because of any specific policies, regardless of if I agreed with them or not. For example, I disagreed with a lot, but not all, of his foreign policies. But that is NOT part of why I consider him unfit. I disagree with, or am highly skeptical of the value of, lots of policies of all presidents, regardless of party.

Biden appears to be similar to all the other presidents we’ve had, of both parties. He is deeply flawed, highly imperfect, and is surely making tons of mistakes all the time. And, like all those other presidents, of both parties, except Trump, he tries to avoid intentionally generalized demonization of large groups of his fellow Americans, or broad demonization of our intelligence agencies or of other US institutions.

Biden seems about as unfit to be president as almost every other president in modern history, except Trump,which is to say somewhat unfit. Trump was far more unfit than all the rest combined. I was equally fine with pretty much all those other presidents, regardless of party.

I can say this, with Biden, as with all presidents: I am very glad that we have term limits.
Click to expand...
What an amazingly blind analysis and comparison. Performance matters - and if you even slightly consider performance your conclusions would be completely different.
 
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