OT: Here's one we can all get behind

[dorndawg]

Boy, does live nation/Ticketmaster/whoever suck...

The Justice Department and a group of states plan to sue Live Nation Entertainment, the concert giant that owns Ticketmaster, as soon as Thursday, accusing it of illegally maintaining a monopoly in the live entertainment industry, said three people familiar with the matter.

The government plans to argue in a lawsuit that Live Nation shored up its power through Ticketmaster’s exclusive ticketing contracts with concert venues, as well as the company’s dominance over concert tours and other businesses like venue management, said two of the people, who declined to be named because the lawsuit was still private. That helped the company maintain a monopoly, raising prices and fees for consumers, limiting innovation in the ticket industry and hurting competition, the people said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/22/technology/ticketmaster-live-nation-doj-antitrust.html?unlocked_article_code=1.uE0.vfVd.T5aDoM9kasP6&smid=url-share

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

The people? Don't you mean the government?

Stepping all over the interest and work of hard working capitalists.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I don't disagree that they suck, concert prices have gotten out of hand, and I just paid some stupid high fees recently through Ticketmaster for an NFL game.

But what exactly are they doing that is illegal? Concert venues weren't forced to sign these contracts.

 

[57stratdawg]

It’s awful. They need to be broken up.

Everyone might not know this, but there’s been a huge battle playing out by Live Nation and on-campus venues for the rights to sell tickets to these stadium concerts. In general, it’s better for everyone involved if the school DOES NOT USE TICKETMASTER. Mississippi State / Selmon has largely pushed internally to use Live Nation cause it’s less of a headache, but they keep the overwhelming majority of the $. It has been a shitshow that OM and their leadership has handled much better than ours.

 

[patdog]

It has been a shitshow that OM and their leadership has handled much better than ours.

Why does this last part not surprise me.

 

[57stratdawg]

I don't disagree that they suck, concert prices have gotten out of hand, and I just paid some stupid high fees recently through Ticketmaster for an NFL game.

But what exactly are they doing that is illegal? Concert venues weren't forced to sign these contracts.

In many ways they were forced to sign on.

The heart of the issue is that Live Nation controls the artist as well. So, if you want a Live Nation artist at your venue - you have to use Ticketmaster. If you’re an artist and you want to play at basically any venue - you have to use Live Nation. There can be real repercussions for an artist who steps outside of this lane.

They really don’t need to have both Artist and Venues. Pick one or the other.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

In many ways they were forced to sign on.

The heart of the issue is that Live Nation controls the artist as well. So, if you want a Live Nation artist at your venue - you have to use Ticketmaster. If you’re an artist and you want to play at basically any venue - you have to use Live Nation. There can be real repercussions for an artist who steps outside of this lane.

They really don’t need to have both Artist and Venues. Pick one or the other.

Pretty crazy, but I'm just like, how did it get this way. Seems like Ticketmaster provides a lot of value, everybody thinks they need them.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

If you've got the innovation and investors to corner the market, more power and profit to them!

Let the market do what the market do!

 

[The Peeper]

Mississippi State / Selmon has largely pushed internally to use Live Nation cause it’s less of a headache, but they keep the overwhelming majority of the $. It has been a shitshow that OM and their leadership has handled much better than ours.

To be fair, how many of these "stadium concerts" has MSU and U of NMS put on, 1 each?

 

[ckDOG]

I can't speak to what is or isn't happening here but I can't think of any concert tickets (music, theater, or pro sports) recently that I haven't bought through Ticketmaster. That can't be good for anyone except Ticketmaster. How hard could it be the be a ticket middle man? Not convinced they are the best at providing a service vs the best at strong arming a market.

That all said, when whatever happens happens, I bet I'm still paying a metric ton off processing fees in the future.

 

[Darryl Steight]

To be fair, how many of these "stadium concerts" has MSU and U of NMS put on, 1 each?

Doesn't matter. 1. There have been more opportunities in the past couple of years that we've stupidly passed up, but that's a whole other conversation; and 2. There are more possible in the future, and our athletic department basically has two choices:

-- Let Live Nation do the booking and rake all the proceeds, or
-- Partner with someone else (like other SEC schools do) and keep a lot more of the money for the school and (hopefully) the Bulldog Initiative.

 

[Darryl Steight]

OM and their leadership has handled much better than ours.

OM ... and LSU... and Auburn... and Bama...

 

[Drebin]

Boy, does live nation/Ticketmaster/whoever suck...

The Justice Department and a group of states plan to sue Live Nation Entertainment, the concert giant that owns Ticketmaster, as soon as Thursday, accusing it of illegally maintaining a monopoly in the live entertainment industry, said three people familiar with the matter.

The government plans to argue in a lawsuit that Live Nation shored up its power through Ticketmaster’s exclusive ticketing contracts with concert venues, as well as the company’s dominance over concert tours and other businesses like venue management, said two of the people, who declined to be named because the lawsuit was still private. That helped the company maintain a monopoly, raising prices and fees for consumers, limiting innovation in the ticket industry and hurting competition, the people said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/22/technology/ticketmaster-live-nation-doj-antitrust.html?unlocked_article_code=1.uE0.vfVd.T5aDoM9kasP6&smid=url-share

If dorn is for it, I must be against it....

But we evil repubs aren't concerned about trifling little ticket fees**

 

[8dog]

Doesn't matter. 1. There have been more opportunities in the past couple of years that we've stupidly passed up, but that's a whole other conversation; and 2. There are more possible in the future, and our athletic department basically has two choices:

-- Let Live Nation do the booking and rake all the proceeds, or
-- Partner with someone else (like other SEC schools do) and keep a lot more of the money for the school and (hopefully) the Bulldog Initiative.

Listen to this guy.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Pretty crazy, but I'm just like, how did it get this way. Seems like Ticketmaster provides a lot of value, everybody thinks they need them.

They need them like a gang controls a neighborhood. What they say goes.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I don't disagree that they suck, concert prices have gotten out of hand, and I just paid some stupid high fees recently through Ticketmaster for an NFL game.

But what exactly are they doing that is illegal? Concert venues weren't forced to sign these contracts.

Here’s TicketMaster/Live Nation

Here’s Your Local Promoter and Customers

Here’s What Ticketmaster/Live Nation does to the Local Promoter and Customers

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

Organized Scalping, I'm surprised it took this long.
Monopoly.

 

[57stratdawg]

OM ... and LSU... and Auburn... and Bama...

And Kentucky.. and South Carolina..

This setup isn’t going anywhere. As NIL pulls $ out of athletic department budgets, ADs are looking for way to generate additional revenue from these stadiums.

The reason why some schools have been able to wiggle around Live Nation is while LN has the artist rights, the schools don’t usually have a venue agreement with Ticketmaster. And they don’t really need one for 1 show a year.

I don’t really know why Selmon has pushed to partner with them. Im guessing it limits the downside risks somehow. It undoubtedly guts the revenue we can expect though which almost kills the whole idea.

 

[mstateglfr]

Pretty crazy, but I'm just like, how did it get this way. Seems like Ticketmaster provides a lot of value, everybody thinks they need them.

They provide a lot of value because in many instances, it is unrealistic or even impossible for anyone else to provide that value.
When there is no potential for others to provide value, then the 1 company that can provide value will be seen as providing a lot of value.
...but thats a pretty skewed way to look at things.
Everybody does need them because there is effectively no other option in many cases.

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

I don't disagree that they suck, concert prices have gotten out of hand, and I just paid some stupid high fees recently through Ticketmaster for an NFL game.

But what exactly are they doing that is illegal? Concert venues weren't forced to sign these contracts.

They control every aspect of the business across the nation. If you want a big time show, ticketmaster controls it. Which isn't an issue until 3/4ths the cost of the ticket is their fees and early purchase fees etc.

 

[dorndawg]

Everybody does need them because there is effectively no other option in many cases.

We even have a word for this phenomenon...

 

[Darryl Steight]

We even have a word for this phenomenon...

Does it rhyme with "schmoshmopoly"?

 

[mstateglfr]

We even have a word for this phenomenon...

Ha, I was trying to respond without using that word since it was in your initial post. Figured that maybe using different words that ultimately mean the same thing might help?
...but I guess there is a chance that OG views monopolies as good and the confusion isnt due to not understanding the issue, the confusion is due to not viewing the issue as an issue.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

They control every aspect of the business across the nation. If you want a big time show, ticketmaster controls it. Which isn't an issue until 3/4ths the cost of the ticket is their fees and early purchase fees etc.

Yep.

Their Vaunted** recent $25 sale for example.

A ticket to a show at… let’s call it the Crandon Camphitheatre.

I bought one.

The ticket had an initial price of $15.

After fees, $28.50 total.

GTHTM

 

[aTotal360]

It’s awful. They need to be broken up.

It's so awful that no one can do a better job. I agree that ticketmaster sucks, but damn. If they are so bad, why do the vast majority of venues/artists keep doing business with them? They are evidently doing something right.

IMO, there is 1,000,000 other things to go after if you want to "help the consumer". Every time this comes up I just have to eye roll and assume its politicians pandering to young voters.

Again, I hate TM too.

 

[dorndawg]

It's so awful that no one can do a better job. I agree that ticketmaster sucks, but damn. If they are so bad, why do the vast majority of venues/artists keep doing business with them? They are evidently doing something right.

IMO, there is 1,000,000 other things to go after if you want to "help the consumer". Every time this comes up I just have to eye roll and assume its politicians pandering to young voters.

Again, I hate TM too.

I'm good with government doing things that make life suck less.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

It's so awful that no one can do a better job. I agree that ticketmaster sucks, but damn. If they are so bad, why do the vast majority of venues/artists keep doing business with them? They are evidently doing something right.

TM/LV owns 80 percent of the Top 50 amphitheaters and 70 percent of the concert promotion.

So what they’re doing right….

let’s just say it rhymes with schmonopoly.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

If you've got the innovation and investors to corner the market, more power and profit to them!

Let the market do what the market do!

There is no market when it's a monopoly, it's been monopolized. They own the market at that point.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

...but I guess there is a chance that OG views monopolies as good and the confusion isnt due to not understanding the issue, the confusion is due to not viewing the issue as an issue.

Good Lord man. It wasn’t that deep of a question. Only reason why I even posted is because I just got anal-raped by Ticketmaster so it made me curious.

I am wondering why this is illegal - THATS IT. I don’t need another one of your whiny lectures.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

There is no market when it's a monopoly, it's been monopolized. They own the market at that point.

So they win! Why do you guys and Biden hate capitalism so much?

 

[Willow Grove Dawg]

So they win! Why do you guys and Biden hate capitalism so much

I wonder if our grandparents thought the same about Rockefeller & Standard Oil?

 

[Darryl Steight]

So they win! Why do you guys and Biden hate capitalism so much?

I don't know about the rest of the posters, but my negative post about LN was directed at our own athletic department's choices to continue to work with them, even though there are other viable choices where we would keep more of the money. The whole monopoly discussion is a separate issue - it doesn't really apply in our particular circumstance, because they don't own/operate our venue. We're choosing to hire the mafia and give them all our money when we don't have to.

 

[dog12]

TM/LV owns 80 percent of the Top 50 amphitheaters and 70 percent of the concert promotion.

So what they’re doing right….

let’s just say it rhymes with schmonopoly.

One possible solution? Just don't go to any concerts controlled by TM.

If enough people implement this policy, then TM and musical artists will take notice.

I've used this policy for years. The last concert I went to was Tracy Chapman at Wolf Trap around 20 years ago.

 

[patdog]

One possible solution? Just don't go to any concerts controlled by TM.

If enough people implement this policy, then TM and musical artists will take notice.

I've used this policy for years. The last concert I went to was Tracy Chapman at Wolf Trap around 20 years ago.

That’s great. Unless you want to go to any concerts.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

So they win! Why do you guys and Biden hate capitalism so much?

The people win because competition is what drives capitalism. Open market competition is a pillar of the idea. When one company can shut out others and prevent competition you get a strangled economy.

 

[Boom Boom]

Good Lord man. It wasn’t that deep of a question. Only reason why I even posted is because I just got anal-raped by Ticketmaster so it made me curious.

I am wondering why this is illegal - THATS IT. I don’t need another one of your whiny lectures.

Monopolies are generally illegal via laws that enact anti-trust rules. Most of those got kneecapped in the Executive and Judicial by Reagan appointees who insisted monopolies were actually good for the consumer. There's just now actual pushback against that view. The TM action is in keeping with the Biden Administration's actual attempts (not just talk) to enforce anti-trust.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

The people win because competition is what drives capitalism. Open market competition is a pillar of the idea. When one company can shut out others and prevent competition you get a strangled economy.

This is America. You either have the money and investors and the legislators in your back pocket or you don't. That's the way our system works.

Let the competitors get innovative - like the Tucker automobile company - and eventually bought out or crushed.

Seriously, if consumers don't like it, they need to quit buying it.

Otherwise, don't touch our free market. Or 17 with the efficiency of monopolies.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

This is America. You either have the money and investors and the legislators in your back pocket or you don't. That's the way our system works.

Let the competitors get innovative - like the Tucker automobile company - and eventually bought out or crushed.

Seriously, if consumers don't like it, they need to quit buying it.

Otherwise, don't touch our free market. Or 17 with the efficiency of monopolies.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

That’s great. Unless you want to go to any concerts.

Exactly.

There are times when your local promoter or venue’s best online selling option is Ticketmaster.

Ardenland here in Jackson used many other alternate options first but use Ticketmaster for a lot of the shows they promote (one notable exception— The Riley Center shows go through Ticketsdotcom).

 

[mstateglfr]

One possible solution? Just don't go to any concerts controlled by TM.

If enough people implement this policy, then TM and musical artists will take notice.

I've used this policy for years. The last concert I went to was Tracy Chapman at Wolf Trap around 20 years ago.

Counterpoint- some people want to spend 20 of their good years enjoying things like live music experiences, and not enough people are going to boycott TM/LN to tip the scales and change things.
Our economy is regulated and it is regulated for many reasons- one of which is to help ensure there is a general balance between cost and service(value).

Pearl Jam was ranting about this when I was a teen 30 years ago- its been a long and steady decline into what we now have- a totally unjustifiable system where the cost to the consumer is rife with tacked on fees that accounted for 1/3 of the average total cost in tickets last year.


In the end though, I doubt costs will actually drop. TM/LN, and others, can display the full cost of a ticket up front, instead of hiding the fees until the end at checkout, and nothing will change. TM/LN has to make money for their services and sites, and it doesnt matter how those costs are displayed, they need to make that money.
TM claims their value is justified in their service, yet when Swift's tour a couple years ago went live, countless people who were supposed to have access to tickets were screwed because TM's website screwed up. Its the very opposite of what they claim.



The real issue is how few tickets are available to actual fans, and how many go to resellers. Those people/companies dont actually provide value to the end user, they just participate in creating price surges thru speculative buying, bot buying, and other practices.
Resale markets need to be $0 profit. If you cant go to a concert/event- sell the tickets for what you paid. The resale market needs to be digitized so it shows transfer of ownership and cost paid. This resale market needs to be hosted/funded by the RIAA or something like that to ensure there is $0 cost and transactions are secure.
Blockchain time!**...sorta.

Ticket resellers have upended live music. California must restore power for artists and fans

Third-party resellers have upended the live entertainment ecosystem in California with harmful tactics that hurt fans and artists alike

calmatters.org

A recent study by the National Independent Talent Organization found that ticket resellers earned an average cumulative profit of $41,000 per show by charging an average of two times the original ticket price. The study also found that in states where artists cannot control resale, fans paid an average of 396% above face value.