OT: Immigration (only click here if you want to learn something - completely non-political)

[horshack.sixpack]

Great 2 part series from Freakonomics: https://freakonomics.com/podcast/what-both-parties-get-wrong-about-immigration/

Highly recommend it just for helping understand immigration overall. I found it very informative and realized that the press the southern border gets detracts from the myriad other ways that it is broken. I've been guilty of equating our immigration issues to southern border issues. It's worse...

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Can we get a TL,DR or BLUF (botton line up front)?

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Can we get a TL,DR or BLUF (botton line up front)?

I couldn't do it justice, hence my disclaimer about only if you want to learn something. Good listen. Informative. Alternatively, feel free to just rant on whatever side's headlines you prefer.***

 

[dorndawg]

Haven't listened but I'm sure it's solid, coming from the Freakonomics folks. Our history of welcoming immigrants is what has made the USA the nation it is. If we want to continue our high quality of life and expanding economy, it's the only realistic path forward.

 

[WilCoDawg]

I’ve only listened to the second one and, unless the first one is more balanced, it’s only a one-sided story. The way they only present in a way the right as “anti-immigration” is truly ignorant. I don’t know one single conservative that hates immigrants or wishes we would take people in. The way they act like the flood of unknown people across our border is not a big deal is disappointing. The way they act as if crimes committed by illegals is blind. If it could save one person’s life, prevent one rape, prevent one DD wreck, closing our border to illegal crossings is worth it. Imagine someone telling you that your child’s murder isn’t a big deal given the amount of good all the unknown immigrants crossing the southern border do for the US.
Even the immigrants I know who are here legally and doing everything by the books are disgusted by the illegal crossings.

If our system is broken, then freaking fix it! But I don’t see anyone trying to fix it. When they try, the left cries “xenophobia!”
In the world we know, i‘d rather we know who’s getting into our country do our due diligence.

 

[TrueMaroonGrind]

I’ll give it a listen. Freakonomics normally does a good job of presenting issues we face and give perspectives from all sides. Honestly I would have already listened to it if they hadn’t changed their thumbnail.

 

[GloryDawg]

Maybe the United States should hire the Cartels to stop the immigration. Pay them whatever they are making to sneak them in to keep them out. Those headhunters would stop illegal immigration to zero.

 

[Mr. Chen]

I’ve only listened to the second one and, unless the first one is more balanced, it’s only a one-sided story. The way they only present in a way the right as “anti-immigration” is truly ignorant. I don’t know one single conservative that hates immigrants or wishes we would take people in. The way they act like the flood of unknown people across our border is not a big deal is disappointing. The way they act as if crimes committed by illegals is blind. If it could save one person’s life, prevent one rape, prevent one DD wreck, closing our border to illegal crossings is worth it. Imagine someone telling you that your child’s murder isn’t a big deal given the amount of good all the unknown immigrants crossing the southern border do for the US.
Even the immigrants I know who are here legally and doing everything by the books are disgusted by the illegal crossings.

If our system is broken, then freaking fix it! But I don’t see anyone trying to fix it. When they try, the left cries “xenophobia!”
In the world we know, i‘d rather we know who’s getting into our country do our due diligence.

You don't see anyone trying to fix it? What about that bipartisan border deal that was about to go through until Trump torpedoed it a couple of months ago? Why? Because he doesn't want the border problem fixed if it makes Biden look good. Go on back to your "fair and balanced" Fox news diet. I bet they didn't even mention it.

 

[dudehead]

I’ve only listened to the second one and, unless the first one is more balanced, it’s only a one-sided story. The way they only present in a way the right as “anti-immigration” is truly ignorant. I don’t know one single conservative that hates immigrants or wishes we would take people in. The way they act like the flood of unknown people across our border is not a big deal is disappointing. The way they act as if crimes committed by illegals is blind. If it could save one person’s life, prevent one rape, prevent one DD wreck, closing our border to illegal crossings is worth it. Imagine someone telling you that your child’s murder isn’t a big deal given the amount of good all the unknown immigrants crossing the southern border do for the US.
Even the immigrants I know who are here legally and doing everything by the books are disgusted by the illegal crossings.

If our system is broken, then freaking fix it! But I don’t see anyone trying to fix it. When they try, the left cries “xenophobia!”
In the world we know, i‘d rather we know who’s getting into our country do our due diligence.

Politicians don't "fix it" because they raise money and/or facilitate their grip on power by keeping the problem in place.

 

[57stratdawg]

I think the Freakonomics guys were the first I've heard make the case that our laws actually trap immigrants here. With easier seasonal migration, people can come, work for a few months, then return home. Otherwise, it's too risky to leave and try to sneak back in.

Either way, everything about our immigration laws are a wreck, It should be very easy to come here, work, start a family, start a business, etc.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

I think the Freakonomics guys were the first I've heard make the case that our laws actually trap immigrants here. With easier seasonal migration, people can come, work for a few months, then return home. Otherwise, it's too risky to leave and try to sneak back in.

Either way, everything about our immigration laws are a wreck, It should be very easy to come here, work, start a family, start a business, etc.

I concur, let's document them and control entry, let them work, go home and then come back through some sort of process.

I will say farmers have figured out how to get seasonal farm labor immigrants legally into and out of the country.

 

[johnson86-1]

You don't see anyone trying to fix it? What about that bipartisan border deal that was about to go through until Trump torpedoed it a couple of months ago? Why? Because he doesn't want the border problem fixed if it makes Biden look good. Go on back to your "fair and balanced" Fox news diet. I bet they didn't even mention it.

You can't accuse other people of having a fox news diet and then spout something ignorant.

There wasn't a bipartisan border deal. You can sort of tell that by the fact that there wasn't a deal. There was one republican senator willing to negotiate a deal that instead of trying to enforce our immigration laws, essentially gave a pass on enforcing them until a historically high number of crossings occur over a rolling period, and then nominally required immigrants to go to a port of entry to be processed. As you can imagine, (or at least somebody with a passing familiarity of the politics of the issue could imagine), that "deal" didn't have a shot of moving through the house or senate. Even the republicans that have important donors that want illegal immigration to put downward pressure on wages wouldn't touch it because it didn't even give them a fig leaf where they could pretend they were getting something for voters that want to stop illegal or at least decrease illegal immigration.

 

[WilCoDawg]

You don't see anyone trying to fix it? What about that bipartisan border deal that was about to go through until Trump torpedoed it a couple of months ago? Why? Because he doesn't want the border problem fixed if it makes Biden look good. Go on back to your "fair and balanced" Fox news diet. I bet they didn't even mention it.

You’re truly ignorant if you don’t see all the ridiculousness that was in that bill. It was made with so much idiocy that the left would win either way by getting all of the asinine spending or getting the optics that the right doesn’t care about fixing it. If the politicians really want to fix things, they’d stop putting unrelated pork and earmarks hidden in these bills.
But given that read my common sense and immediately cried “faux news!!!1!1!!!11!” is quite telling. I couldn’t tell you when I last watched FNC but I’m sure you don’t care.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Non Political immigration thread......

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I’ve only listened to the second one and, unless the first one is more balanced, it’s only a one-sided story. The way they only present in a way the right as “anti-immigration” is truly ignorant. I don’t know one single conservative that hates immigrants or wishes we would take people in. The way they act like the flood of unknown people across our border is not a big deal is disappointing. The way they act as if crimes committed by illegals is blind. If it could save one person’s life, prevent one rape, prevent one DD wreck, closing our border to illegal crossings is worth it. Imagine someone telling you that your child’s murder isn’t a big deal given the amount of good all the unknown immigrants crossing the southern border do for the US.
Even the immigrants I know who are here legally and doing everything by the books are disgusted by the illegal crossings.

If our system is broken, then freaking fix it! But I don’t see anyone trying to fix it. When they try, the left cries “xenophobia!”
In the world we know, i‘d rather we know who’s getting into our country do our due diligence.

Not at all what I got out of it. They had multiple people with multiple data sets and differing opinions on what that data meant/didn't mean. Each one supported his argument with the data he had and they came to different conclusions in some cases. It was a well-presented case that should help people who want to learn to begin to discern the actual nuance in such a complex and multi-faceted issue, and the "experts" interviewed didn't all have the same take at all.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I concur, let's document them and control entry, let them work, go home and then come back through some sort of process.

I will say farmers have figured out how to get seasonal farm labor immigrants legally into and out of the country.

I think that you should listen. Your take seems to only focus on the southern border. It's much bigger than that.

 

[leeinator]

You don't see anyone trying to fix it? What about that bipartisan border deal that was about to go through until Trump torpedoed it a couple of months ago? Why? Because he doesn't want the border problem fixed if it makes Biden look good. Go on back to your "fair and balanced" Fox news diet. I bet they didn't even mention it.

It was torpedoed because it let in 5,000 illegal immigrants per day before it would be shut down. That is unacceptable. Might as well just let it wide open if that's all it does. We should not be letting in 1 single illegal immigrant per day. Not one! How bout foreigners going through the U.S. Embassy and applying LEGALLY. It's called "The Right Way".

 

[Irondawg]

Number one thing I wish Congress would change is preventing unrelated pork spending to find its way into bills.

Bills should cover the intended topic only. I can’t believe that never gets brought up or passed.

kinda like I’m sick of hearing about abortion as “reproductive rights” when the issue is really one of personhood.

everybody trying to win optics by not actually addressing the issues. Which is how we end up with Biden and Trump being the two candidates.

 

[MrKotter]

You don't see anyone trying to fix it? What about that bipartisan border deal that was about to go through until Trump torpedoed it a couple of months ago? Why? Because he doesn't want the border problem fixed if it makes Biden look good. Go on back to your "fair and balanced" Fox news diet. I bet they didn't even mention it.

Next time you feel the need to post, don't. I guarantee it will be something just as foolish.

 

[preacher_dawg]

I stand consistently amazed at how many are

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Next time you feel the need to post, don't. I guarantee it will be something just as foolish.

He wasn’t wrong though. Immigration is the can that gets kicked down the road and never gets solved because each party uses it for votes.

 

[ckDOG]

It was torpedoed because it let in 5,000 illegal immigrants per day before it would be shut down. That is unacceptable. Might as well just let it wide open if that's all it does. We should not be letting in 1 single illegal immigrant per day. Not one! How bout foreigners going through the U.S. Embassy and applying LEGALLY. It's called "The Right Way".

Sounds expensive . What's the mechanism and how are we funding it?

 

[mstateglfr]

Haven't listened but I'm sure it's solid, coming from the Freakonomics folks. Our history of welcoming immigrants is what has made the USA the nation it is. If we want to continue our high quality of life and expanding economy, it's the only realistic path forward.

I should be surprised that your reasonable and mild post got reactions of surprise and sadness, but this is SPS so of course someone is saddened by your post.

 

[ckDOG]

You’re truly ignorant if you don’t see all the ridiculousness that was in that bill. It was made with so much idiocy that the left would win either way by getting all of the asinine spending or getting the optics that the right doesn’t care about fixing it. If the politicians really want to fix things, they’d stop putting unrelated pork and earmarks hidden in these bills.
But given that read my common sense and immediately cried “faux news!!!1!1!!!11!” is quite telling. I couldn’t tell you when I last watched FNC but I’m sure you don’t care.

Why should I believe that republicans will do anything resembling comprehensive reform the next time they have the White House, house, and senate? Could have pushed this along in 16-18 session but Republican Congress punted for the most part. They talk big game but tuck tail when it comes time for a vote. Only thing that really moved the needle was towards the end of 19-20 term due lower crossing attempts from Covid and EOs available via emergency power.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

I should be surprised that your reasonable and mild post got reactions of surprise and sadness, but this is SPS so of course someone is saddened by your post.

There’s nothing wrong with what he said. The problem is the government red tape and bureaucracy on actual legal immigration. Something that Congress will never solve because they don’t want to like I said above. We have an extremely broken system.

 

[mstateglfr]

kinda like I’m sick of hearing about abortion as “reproductive rights” when the issue is really one of personhood.

Sucks that you are annoyed by this, but the issue is more than just abortion. It really is about reproductive health and reproductive rights.
Birth control, reproductive education, other contraception, access to reproductive medical care, genital mutilation protection, and the overall ability to plan if and when to have children are all parts of reproductive rights.
This stuff isn't new, the concept is over 50 years old and global in application.


ETA- removed some fetal commentary because the thread is about immigration. Always fun when a different topic is forced in.

 

[BulldogBlitz]

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I'm sure it's nothing in a few more billion dollars can't fix.

Just wait till we give them all a chance to vote this fall.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I should be surprised that your reasonable and mild post got reactions of surprise and sadness, but this is SPS so of course someone is saddened by your post.

It is really odd that a nation of immigrants, that owes its identity to immigrants, is now suddenly anti-immigrant. And the BS about being anti-illegal immigrant is just that. Desantis sent a busload of asylum seekers (legal immigrants trying to go through the legal process) to the Northeast to prove a point about illegal immigration...

PS: If you are native american, this is not directed at you. You have the only legitimate claim to being original here.

 

[85Bears]

It is really odd that a nation of immigrants, that owes its identity to immigrants, is now suddenly anti-immigrant. And the BS about being anti-illegal immigrant is just that. Desantis sent a busload of asylum seekers (legal immigrants trying to go through the legal process) to the Northeast to prove a point about illegal immigration...

PS: If you are native american, this is not directed at you. You have the only legitimate claim to being original here.

Yea 11 million flown in , bussed in by Tax payer funded NGOs in 3 years. Mostly military aged males. What’s not to like ?

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

Yea 11 million flown in , bussed in by Tax payer funded NGOs in 3 years. Mostly military aged males. What’s not to like ?

Just wait... your insult is waiting for you in a jiffy. Please be patient.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I'm sure it's nothing in a few more billion dollars can't fix.

Just wait till we give them all a chance to vote this fall just for being here.

I have yet to meet one single person who makes claims about illegal people voting who doesn't have to prove that they are registered in their polling place when they vote. Not one. Somehow, illegals are all voting in some top-secret polling place where both parties have decided to allow it and keep it all real quiet, because all of them are overseen by representatives of both parties, so there would have to be some collusion.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Yea 11 million flown in , bussed in by Tax payer funded NGOs in 3 years. Mostly military aged males. What’s not to like ?

Are you a native american or an immigrant?

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I have yet to meet one single person who makes claims about illegal people voting who doesn't have to prove that they are registered in their polling place when they vote. Not one. Somehow, illegals are all voting in some top-secret polling place where both parties have decided to allow it and keep it all real quiet, because all of them are overseen by representatives of both parties, so there would have to be some collusion.

I'm sure you haven't just wait.

 

[retire the banner]

A lot of ignorance in this thread. And a ton of naivety. The thousands of illegals crossing the border everyday aren’t here to just make a better living for their family or “live the American dream” if it was as simple as that, no one would have a problem with what’s happening at our southern border. And as an earlier poster said, conservatives are not anti-immigration. That’s a BS argument. I welcome whoever wants to come to America, legally.

in before the lock.