OT: Interesting Bluesky Thread on Kiddie Sports

LionJim

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I got nothing to add. If you prefer not to click, the takeaway is that kids nowadays are much more skilled than their age-peers were back in the day.

 
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Bison13

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Can't say for soccer but as a HS coach of multiple sports, I disagree wholeheartedly. I have had multiple kids play professionally in football, basketball and baseball and it not close how much more time I have to spend on fundamentals for the majority of the kids. A top flight few are like what he says but the majority are kids who dont have the sport IQ or understanding of when to do certain things. Basketball footwork is terrible and shooting form is worse. No kids box out and defense is questionable. Are they more athletic and able to do fancy dribbling a little more, yes but beyond that, give me the kids from 20 years ago.
 

WestSideLion

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I can. The skills today are an order of magnitude better than when I was a kid. Way better coaching and training programs now.
Very likely the same for lacrosse.
This is good. Maybe Klinsmann’s advice was heeded and the US finally got serious about youth development. We had been way behind Europe there.

Look out at the World Cup in the 2030s! 😉
 

Grant Green

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This is good. Maybe Klinsmann’s advice was heeded and the US finally got serious about youth development. We had been way behind Europe there.

Look out at the World Cup in the 2030s! 😉
I think it helped, but the US still uses the 'pay to play' system which filters out a lot of lower income people. When many of those folks are immigrants, say from Mexico, we are losing out on a lot of potential talent. Unfortunately for the MLS, our kids need to go play in the top European leagues if we are ever going to really compete in the WC.
 
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PSUSignore

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I can. The skills today are an order of magnitude better than when I was a kid. Way better coaching and training programs now.
Very likely the same for lacrosse.
Been hearing this stuff for soccer in the USA for 40 years. We still suck, compared to Europe.
 
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kgilbert78

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I can. The skills today are an order of magnitude better than when I was a kid. Way better coaching and training programs now.
Very likely the same for lacrosse.
I expect that's because the coaches back in the day were someone's dad. Now those dads played the game themselves, sometimes at a high level.
 

Grant Green

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I expect that's because the coaches back in the day were someone's dad. Now those dads played the game themselves, sometimes at a high level.
Pretty much. Now the coaches are paid professionals (for competitive programs) and from my experience, fairly young (20s-30s).
 
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LionJim

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It’s the difference between kids going up and fighting for a way out vs kids going to practice in a nice Suburban and having a juice box on the way home.
Don’t ever underestimate this part of the equation. This is always a factor.

Mental toughness can be taught, though. I was very athletic but was repeatedly reminded that I was, for lack of a better term, mentally soft. I got outperformed by lesser athletes.
 
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CDLionFL

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Can't say for soccer but as a HS coach of multiple sports, I disagree wholeheartedly. I have had multiple kids play professionally in football, basketball and baseball and it not close how much more time I have to spend on fundamentals for the majority of the kids. A top flight few are like what he says but the majority are kids who dont have the sport IQ or understanding of when to do certain things. Basketball footwork is terrible and shooting form is worse. No kids box out and defense is questionable. Are they more athletic and able to do fancy dribbling a little more, yes but beyond that, give me the kids from 20 years ago.
I need more Cousy & West and less And1 Mixtape Tour!!

I've officiated HS basketball in Florida for over 20 years and I've seen the same things you have. The athleticism is so much better and the kids are a lot fitter and taller than when I played 30+ years ago. But the coaching certainly has gone downhill -- too much emphasis on ball screens and tossing up 3's instead of motion offenses and moving the ball. On defense, it's see if we can get steals and then leak out as soon as a shot goes up. Makes me wonder just how many teams are doing the same defensive and rebounding drills that we would do every single day in HS.
 
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LionJim

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Can't say for soccer but as a HS coach of multiple sports, I disagree wholeheartedly. I have had multiple kids play professionally in football, basketball and baseball and it not close how much more time I have to spend on fundamentals for the majority of the kids. A top flight few are like what he says but the majority are kids who dont have the sport IQ or understanding of when to do certain things. Basketball footwork is terrible and shooting form is worse. No kids box out and defense is questionable. Are they more athletic and able to do fancy dribbling a little more, yes but beyond that, give me the kids from 20 years ago.
Basketball shooting form is worse than terrible? With the advent of YouTube shooting videos one would think that this would not be the case.

Steph Curry’s shooting form is all the rage nowadays. Two big reasons: the ball gets away fast, and you need less spring from your legs than with a “traditional” shooting form (think Oscar). I was a great shooter with a deep pull back on my shot but faded when I got tired; I needed significant spring for that shot to be effective.
 
Sep 10, 2013
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I know in lax if you don’t start at 5-6yo you have no shot in HS. 1 n 2 grad class had 850 kids. There are 3 attack spots (they don’t sub attack)

do maths
 
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Moogy

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Can't say for soccer but as a HS coach of multiple sports, I disagree wholeheartedly. I have had multiple kids play professionally in football, basketball and baseball and it not close how much more time I have to spend on fundamentals for the majority of the kids. A top flight few are like what he says but the majority are kids who dont have the sport IQ or understanding of when to do certain things. Basketball footwork is terrible and shooting form is worse. No kids box out and defense is questionable. Are they more athletic and able to do fancy dribbling a little more, yes but beyond that, give me the kids from 20 years ago.

Not to get too technical ... but you're full of poo.

I remember thinking how awesome I was ... how I was a D1 prospect back in high school and I just naturally knew how to do everything on the baseball diamond. I remember thinking how skilled we all were out there.

Then I came across the two games my parents had videotaped. Summer between 10th and 11th grade. I was already sitting mid-80s, as a lefty with a nasty wipeout slider ... and hitting bombs at the plate.

My god, the amount of problems in my delivery and in my swing. Insane. And my teammates? They looked handi-capable.

If I watch a random 10U baseball tournament, 90%+ of those kids are more fundamentally sound.


And basketball? These kids have ball-handling skills that are LIGHT YEARS above what we had back then. And they break ankles. And shooting. 12-year-olds draining pro 3s on a regular basis. Little ones, too ... not just the early physical developers.

And football? Back in the day, I remember going up against a 6 ft 200 lb. frosh, who was known as a physical freak. He was a legend ... even then. He eventually played high D1 and then pro ball. My youngest son played frosh football this past year. That size is normal now. With strength and technique. Kids are going to "elite" camps and skill guys are playing 7v7. DEs in frosh have the full basket of rush moves down pat.


What you might be referencing is that they're not "team coached" in the old style anymore. Yeah, that's sometimes the case. They may not know bunt coverages as well (and coaches suck at teaching them). They may not know help defense as well at an early age.

But in terms of "skill" and overall development? Today's kids are light years ahead of where we were at 30+ years ago.

They have year round play. They have year round training. They have pitching/hitting instructors and regular lessons at 8 years old (and below). They go to personal trainers, specifically geared toward sport-specific training, at a young age.

We had whiffle ball in the backyard. If you were lucky, you knew an ex-player or a coach and got a little better teaching now and then. We had after school lifting at the dinky school gym. And pitchers were told not to lift.
 
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Moogy

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I can. The skills today are an order of magnitude better than when I was a kid. Way better coaching and training programs now.
Very likely the same for lacrosse.

We live close enough to Gillette that the Revs Academy is a thing. I've known a few folks who have put kids in there, for at least some time. My buddy's one kid has been training with them for years ... he's travelling all over the States, and to Europe, to play soccer. He's 10 now.

While he's an elite talent, even the "crappy" kids are playing and training year round with club teams and then doing futsal when they can't be outside.
 

Bison13

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Basketball shooting form is worse than terrible? With the advent of YouTube shooting videos one would think that this would not be the case.

Steph Curry’s shooting form is all the rage nowadays. Two big reasons: the ball gets away fast, and you need less spring from your legs than with a “traditional” shooting form (think Oscar). I was a great shooter with a deep pull back on my shot but faded when I got tired; I needed significant spring for that shot to be effective.
I went to one of my players workouts with his personal trainer. All they ever work on is his 'bag', i.e. his moves to get to the basket or get a shot off. They never actually work on his shot and getting his feet squarely underneath and jumping straight up with good extension and follow through. I asked if I could shoot on the other end while he took a break, I did my form shooting drill that I have the kids do for the first ten minutes of practice every day. At least 30 shots from 2 feet out to about 15-18 ft, missed 2. I told him he will be a better scorer when he can actually shoot better, not just be better at getting shots off.
 
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Grant Green

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We live close enough to Gillette that the Revs Academy is a thing. I've known a few folks who have put kids in there, for at least some time. My buddy's one kid has been training with them for years ... he's travelling all over the States, and to Europe, to play soccer. He's 10 now.

While he's an elite talent, even the "crappy" kids are playing and training year round with club teams and then doing futsal when they can't be outside.
I see the same. I believe the MLS academy thing is happening everywhere. Definitely been going on with the Timbers in Portland for years.

IMO, futsal is invaluable for training. Tight spaces require superior ball skills. More young kids should be devoting as much time as they can to futsal.
 

Bison13

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May 26, 2013
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I know in lax if you don’t start at 5-6yo you have no shot in HS. 1 n 2 grad class had 850 kids. There are 3 attack spots (they don’t sub attack)

do maths
depends on where you are. Even here in the lax hotbed on central MD, a former baseball player of mine (back up 3B) tried out for the mens lax team this year and became the starting keeper. The play for the state championship thursday, kid never played before to now getting offers from good programs D1-3
 

WestSideLion

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I think it helped, but the US still uses the 'pay to play' system which filters out a lot of lower income people. When many of those folks are immigrants, say from Mexico, we are losing out on a lot of potential talent. Unfortunately for the MLS, our kids need to go play in the top European leagues if we are ever going to really compete in the WC.
The pay to play model is a huge detriment. Sir Alex Ferguson harped on this a lot. In England and Europe, clubs ID, sign and educate these kids from the age of 11 or 12.

Look at David Beckham and the Man Utd Academy’s legendary class of 1992. Giggs, Scholes, Becks and the Neville brothers. That’s 3/4 of the best midfield of the 90s.
 
Sep 10, 2013
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depends on where you are. Even here in the lax hotbed on central MD, a former baseball player of mine (back up 3B) tried out for the mens lax team this year and became the starting keeper. The play for the state championship thursday, kid never played before to now getting offers from good programs D1-3
I’d make an exception for goalie and fogo
 

s1uggo72

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Oct 12, 2021
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face off get off. It's a draw specialist who leaves the field as soon as possession is gained. Winning draws in lacrosse is HUGE.
I dont know if he was fogo, but back in the day, Doug Radebaugh was a pretty good face off guy. I saw him work 1-1 with some HS kids after his playing days. Most impressive. His hands and wrists were hugh, especially for a normal sized guy.
 
Sep 10, 2013
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I dont know if he was fogo, but back in the day, Doug Radebaugh was a pretty good face off guy. I saw him work 1-1 with some HS kids after his playing days. Most impressive. His hands and wrists were hugh, especially for a normal sized guy.
It’s a specialty fo sho. State lost to Yale a few years ago cause of their FOGO. If we didn’t draw Yale we may have won the natty. (3 years ago?)
 
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Sep 10, 2013
16,907
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I dont know if he was fogo, but back in the day, Doug Radebaugh was a pretty good face off guy. I saw him work 1-1 with some HS kids after his playing days. Most impressive. His hands and wrists were hugh, especially for a normal sized guy.
Son1 played hs with his bro who set fogo records at Montclair you gotta be tough. He was real involved helping out the yutes coming up. I lost touch but after graduation he was the grad assistant coach at Stevens T
 
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mfb5053

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Jan 15, 2017
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I know in lax if you don’t start at 5-6yo you have no shot in HS. 1 n 2 grad class had 850 kids. There are 3 attack spots (they don’t sub attack)

do maths
Took my daughter to try out for the local 2nd and 3rd grade club lacrosse team here in Maryland. Over 90 girls tried out. The numbers are staggering. Also I wanted to troll you on your $hitty take on girls lacrosse.
 

Grant Green

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Took my daughter to try out for the local 2nd and 3rd grade club lacrosse team here in Maryland. Over 90 girls tried out. The numbers are staggering. Also I wanted to troll you on your $hitty take on girls lacrosse.
IIRC, @laKavosiey-st lion wisely walked back his criticism of girl lax. Girls skills have gotten crazy good.
If he still disagrees, I remind him of my #1 assisting my #2 in this clip.....
 

Erial_Lion

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Nov 1, 2021
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Been hearing this stuff for soccer in the USA for 40 years. We still suck, compared to Europe.
The US is orders of magnitude more developed in soccer today than it was 40 years ago. MLS, the MLS Academy system, kids heading off to Europe at younger ages, players all over the top flight Euro leagues, etc. It's not even close.

As for "sucking", we're a top 20ish team in the world and would be about the 10th-11th best team in Europe. We're like a Switzerland/Denmark, and few would say that they "suck" compared to the rest of the teams in Europe. We're not a truly elite team, but we're much better than some want to believe.
 
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Bison13

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Took my daughter to try out for the local 2nd and 3rd grade club lacrosse team here in Maryland. Over 90 girls tried out. The numbers are staggering. Also I wanted to troll you on your $hitty take on girls lacrosse.
Sounds like my area. Daughter played for Hoco lax for a year, did well, was one of their top scorers 2 years ago in that same age group but it was such a time constraint and she wanted to try other sports so we took the year off, glad we did now as so many of those parents are crazy
 

Moogy

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I know in lax if you don’t start at 5-6yo you have no shot in HS. 1 n 2 grad class had 850 kids. There are 3 attack spots (they don’t sub attack)

do maths

Lax and football are the two sports where you are far more likely to just be able to pick it up later in life, and excel as long as you're a good athlete (or, in football's case, large and somewhat athletic, at certain positions).

We've seen a few generally athletic baseball flameouts who decided to give lax a go for the first time in HS, and they immediately became starters, going on to play in college.

If you're good enough to be a backup WR or RB on the football team, and you have a bit of hand-eye coordination, you're going to succeed in lax in short order.

Recently we had twins who were baseball "legacies" - their dad had played college baseball. They are our starting QB and a part-time starting RB in football (freshman). They were pretty mediocre in baseball, despite being good athletes. They switched to lax, like their big bro (who had a similar experience) for the first time as freshmen (actually, I think they gave it a go one year in youth, concurrent with baseball, a few years ago and weren't fans). Immediate varsity playing time ... not starters - we have lots of committed D1-D3 older kids. We actually had a lax kid try baseball this season. Due to low numbers and injuries, he got playing time at 1B one game. My son broke the kid’s nose (bad break, completely turned to the side) with a pickoff attempt. Just never adjusted his glove up a tick to properly receive the throw.
 
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Erial_Lion

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For all the complaints we hear about shooting form, it's interesting that shooting has never been better in high level basketball. You'd think that it would translate to worse FT or 3PT shooting, but it doesn't when looking at the numbers.
 

LionJim

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Oct 12, 2021
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For all the complaints we hear about shooting form, it's interesting that shooting has never been better in high level basketball. You'd think that it would translate to worse FT or 3PT shooting, but it doesn't when looking at the numbers.
Shooting has never been better. Miles Turner, what a weapon, 56.3% 3pfga in this year’s playoffs, good googly moogly. I could give you a dozen further examples.
 

Mister Magoo

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Jul 16, 2001
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It was never better. Different. Yes. You may have liked it More when you were younger. I can’t think of one sport that athletes are better 30 years ago than today.
 
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ApexLion

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Not to get too technical ... but you're full of poo.

I remember thinking how awesome I was ... how I was a D1 prospect back in high school and I just naturally knew how to do everything on the baseball diamond. I remember thinking how skilled we all were out there.

Then I came across the two games my parents had videotaped. Summer between 10th and 11th grade. I was already sitting mid-80s, as a lefty with a nasty wipeout slider ... and hitting bombs at the plate.

My god, the amount of problems in my delivery and in my swing. Insane. And my teammates? They looked handi-capable.

If I watch a random 10U baseball tournament, 90%+ of those kids are more fundamentally sound.


And basketball? These kids have ball-handling skills that are LIGHT YEARS above what we had back then. And they break ankles. And shooting. 12-year-olds draining pro 3s on a regular basis. Little ones, too ... not just the early physical developers.

And football? Back in the day, I remember going up against a 6 ft 200 lb. frosh, who was known as a physical freak. He was a legend ... even then. He eventually played high D1 and then pro ball. My youngest son played frosh football this past year. That size is normal now. With strength and technique. Kids are going to "elite" camps and skill guys are playing 7v7. DEs in frosh have the full basket of rush moves down pat.


What you might be referencing is that they're not "team coached" in the old style anymore. Yeah, that's sometimes the case. They may not know bunt coverages as well (and coaches suck at teaching them). They may not know help defense as well at an early age.

But in terms of "skill" and overall development? Today's kids are light years ahead of where we were at 30+ years ago.

They have year round play. They have year round training. They have pitching/hitting instructors and regular lessons at 8 years old (and below). They go to personal trainers, specifically geared toward sport-specific training, at a young age.

We had whiffle ball in the backyard. If you were lucky, you knew an ex-player or a coach and got a little better teaching now and then. We had after school lifting at the dinky school gym. And pitchers were told not to lift.
And we walked up hill both ways and we liked it.
 

LionJim

Heisman
Oct 12, 2021
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Shooting has never been better. Miles Turner, what a weapon, 56.3% 3pfga in this year’s playoffs, good googly moogly. I could give you a dozen further examples.
And the passing nowadays, wow. Just great. You see ten great assists per game where you say, “Damn.”
 

SleepyLion

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Sep 1, 2022
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The US is orders of magnitude more developed in soccer today than it was 40 years ago. MLS, the MLS Academy system, kids heading off to Europe at younger ages, players all over the top flight Euro leagues, etc. It's not even close.

As for "sucking", we're a top 20ish team in the world and would be about the 10th-11th best team in Europe. We're like a Switzerland/Denmark, and few would say that they "suck" compared to the rest of the teams in Europe. We're not a truly elite team, but we're much better than some want to believe.
This is America. in 1781 France finshed second, England third. America took first.

Ever since then, we only appreciate first place.
 
Sep 10, 2013
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Took my daughter to try out for the local 2nd and 3rd grade club lacrosse team here in Maryland. Over 90 girls tried out. The numbers are staggering. Also I wanted to troll you on your $hitty take on girls lacrosse.
I apologized for that, rookie mistake.;)

BUT, I still think the game is weak sauce. I just don’t talk schit on toms thread anymore. On a happier note, big Pete’s daughter is an absolute lax girl stud at lycoming. Ill Look for articles, SB
 
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