OT: is Bill Belichick best coach ever?

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

Just heard Tony Dungy say the "Patriots had a brilliant game plan." And I'm thinking, who's surprised? When are the Patriots ever less than completely prepared? About to be in his 10th AFC title game.....

Not sure I've seen a better coach - in any sport. This isn't like college basketball or football, where the best coaches are paired the majority of time against a mediocre coach. NFL is designed for parity. Only 32 coaches, should be the cream of the crop. He fairly dominates.

You could put together a pretty good list of people that have done well with the Patriots, and failed elsewhere. Assistant coaches, players, front office types. Crennel. Weiss. McDaniels. I won't do it justice off the top of my head, but there's a bunch.

Phil Jackson. Auerbach. Wooden. Lombardi. K. Stengel. Saban. Bryant. Torre. Probably others worthy of listing. I think Belichick might be better than any of them.

 

[zannmann]

Best cheater ever.

 

[Krisys]

It amazes me how he takes receivers that don't do much anywhere else, and makes them look like Jerry Rice.

 

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

I think he just makes the game exceedingly simple for each player, no matter the position. "Do your job." He's so far ahead of what the other guy is doing, it's easy to have his players in the best position to succeed. Which is all coaching is, anyway. Example: the Butler pick in the end zone to win the Super Bowl. Afterwards, as Butler explained they'd practiced that alignment all week, he seemed amazed that "it was like we knew what they were going to do."

 

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

It amazes me how he takes receivers that don't do much anywhere else, and makes them look like Jerry Rice.

Aaron Rogers is doing the same thing tonight. Keeping this game close with guys you never heard of. That, to me, is the difference between Rogers, Brady and Manning. All 3 are all time greats. Difference is Manning and Brady don't get nearly the help from the sideline like Brady enjoys....

 

[ZZBlueComet]

The Cardinals must have the dumbest coach in football, period. Who, on a hail mary attempt, rushes 7 and puts 4 defenders in the end zone, to guard 5 receivers - unreal.

 

[BlueRaider22]

I think Belichick is in the conversation but personally I think he's a bit overrated. Here's why. If he were to coach the Browns, they would be much improved but he'd never win a championship. He probably wouldn't get close......because he wouldn't have the ownership, front office, or QB support. Shoot, they'd probably fire him after 2 yrs before he ever got things going.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that he's an elite coach....a HOF coach....but he wouldn't have a third of the results without Brady and the Patriots front office.

 

[Michigan Fan]

I think Belichick is in the conversation but personally I think he's a bit overrated. Here's why. If he were to coach the Browns, they would be much improved but he'd never win a championship. He probably wouldn't get close......because he wouldn't have the ownership, front office, or QB support. Shoot, they'd probably fire him after 2 yrs before he ever got things going.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that he's an elite coach....a HOF coach....but he wouldn't have a third of the results without Brady and the Patriots front office.

He did coach the Browns in the 90s...something that many forget...coached them for 5 years and only had one winning season...

 

[BlueRaider22]

That's why I mentioned them instead of the Lions.

 

[Krisys]

I think Belichick is in the conversation but personally I think he's a bit overrated. Here's why. If he were to coach the Browns, they would be much improved but he'd never win a championship. He probably wouldn't get close......because he wouldn't have the ownership, front office, or QB support. Shoot, they'd probably fire him after 2 yrs before he ever got things going.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that he's an elite coach....a HOF coach....but he wouldn't have a third of the results without Brady and the Patriots front office.

Yeah but who is going to win a super bowl with the browns? Nobody is, because they're the browns. Saying that he wouldn't win a title with the browns is like saying coach k wouldnt win a title coaching harvard.

 

[Michigan Fan]

Yeah but who is going to win a super bowl with the browns? Nobody is, because they're the browns. Saying that he wouldn't win a title with the browns is like saying coach k wouldnt win a title coaching harvard.

To be fair the Browns were a solid franchise until the move to Baltimore...and were on the cusp in the late 80s/Early 90s...prior to Belichick taking over they usually went to the playoffs and had been to the AFC Title Game 3 out of 4 years just before he arrived.

Also...what is ironic he also mentioned the Lions....that was Belichick first team that hired him as a full time assistant coach.

 

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

He was 6-10, 7-9 and 7-9 his first 3 years with the Browns. Seemed to turn it around in year 4, going 11-5. Started 3 - 1 the next year when the move to Baltimore was announced, and everything fell apart. It takes a while for greatness to reveal itself sometimes. See Wooden at Indiana State, Torre with the Braves and Jackson in the CBA.

To be sure he has a completely stable franchise, and an owner that will give him whatever he needs. And he's got an all timer at QB. Still, Belichick is the epicenter of that franchise. Everything that happens revolves around and emanates from him......

 

[Krisys]

To be fair the Browns were a solid franchise until the move to Baltimore...and were on the cusp in the late 80s/Early 90s...prior to Belichick taking over they usually went to the playoffs and had been to the AFC Title Game 3 out of 4 years just before he arrived.

Also...what is ironic he also mentioned the Lions....that was Belichick first team that hired him as a full time assistant coach.

The browns being decent was long before I was born.

 

[BlueRaider22]

Yeah but who is going to win a super bowl with the browns? Nobody is, because they're the browns. Saying that he wouldn't win a title with the browns is like saying coach k wouldnt win a title coaching harvard.

Thats he point I was trying to make. I think that Jeff Fisher would have a few rings had he coached at NE with Brady as his QB. Speaking of Fisher, he was really competitive when he had good QB play.....making playoffs and even almost winning a SB. No QB (and a salary cap jail) and he is fired. He goes to St Louis and starts to turn things around but doesn't have a QB.....so, they are just treading water.

The question was is Belichick the greatest ever? I think he will likely go down as such but in my mind he's more of "an elite coach that was in the right place at the right time moreso than just the best of all time."

 

[theoledog]

It doesn't hurt that he has Tom Brady... He's the best I've seen play QB.... Wish I liked him...
The s.o.b. is hard to beat and one hell of a competitor...

 

[Allan Brewer]

I don't like the guy personally, because he seems like a real dick....but you can't argue with all those rings.

 

[Michigan Fan]

The browns being decent was long before I was born.

Just remember the current Bengals, Cardinals and Colts before they got Manning were no different than the current Browns

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Just heard Tony Dungy say the "Patriots had a brilliant game plan." And I'm thinking, who's surprised? When are the Patriots ever less than completely prepared? About to be in his 10th AFC title game.....

Not sure I've seen a better coach - in any sport. This isn't like college basketball or football, where the best coaches are paired the majority of time against a mediocre coach. NFL is designed for parity. Only 32 coaches, should be the cream of the crop. He fairly dominates.

You could put together a pretty good list of people that have done well with the Patriots, and failed elsewhere. Assistant coaches, players, front office types. Crennel. Weiss. McDaniels. I won't do it justice off the top of my head, but there's a bunch.

Phil Jackson. Auerbach. Wooden. Lombardi. K. Stengel. Saban. Bryant. Torre. Probably others worthy of listing. I think Belichick might be better than any of them.

Greatest ever is used way too often, he is without a doubt the best currently coaching, is he better than Tom Landry, Bill Walsh or Noll, who all had as much success as Belichick in their time as he is now?

Now for those saying he has Tom Brady to thank for his success, I think that goes both ways, Brady wasn't considered a sure thing coming out of college, he didn't have near the success he is having now, so Belichick has to have some of the credit for his development. But all of these coaches who were considered the best of their era had one thing in common, a great leader on the field, Lombardi had Bart Star, Landry had Roger Stauback, Noll hand Bradshaw and Walsh had Montana and Young. just like Belichick has Brady.

One thing he does do, is all these guys who have been head cases, they play for New England, they either straighten up or sit, Moss was a complete team player at NE.

 

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

In the last Super Bowl, to use one example, Brady was on the field for 70 plays of the more than 160 plays in that game. Brady has nothing to do with run blocking or pass blocking, with running the ball or stopping the run, with a pass rush or defensive secondary play, with kicking or punting the ball or kick coverage. Etc. Belichick has to be involved in all that.

Brady to me is like I used to think of Montana. What if Montana had been drafted by, say, the Saints, who were awful year after year? What if there was no Walsh for him, no West Coast offense to take advantage of his particular set of skills that matched that coach and offense perfectly? IOW, great as he was, I thought Manning had to be in a particular kind of situation to really shine. Contrast with say Marino, who would have looked good in any kind of situation.

 

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

Thats he point I was trying to make. I think that Jeff Fisher would have a few rings had he coached at NE with Brady as his QB. Speaking of Fisher, he was really competitive when he had good QB play.....making playoffs and even almost winning a SB. No QB (and a salary cap jail) and he is fired. He goes to St Louis and starts to turn things around but doesn't have a QB.....so, they are just treading water.

The question was is Belichick the greatest ever? I think he will likely go down as such but in my mind he's more of "an elite coach that was in the right place at the right time moreso than just the best of all time."

When is the last time/how often has a Fisher coached team been accused of having a "brilliant game plan"? Just this morning I see a piece at SI.com that says the Patriots are always the best at making adjustments. Who gets the credit for coaching adjustments? The quarterback? The owner? The first time DC? The OC who failed spectacularly in Denver? Res ipsa loquitur......

 

[BlueRaider22]

Fisher gets compliments all the time. At least he did so in Tennessee.

And nobody is saying that Belichick isn't a good coach. He's elite. And he's likely the best there is right now. But the product you are seeing yr in yr out in New England is not just him. New England has an elite owner, an elite front office, a HOF QB.......and an elite HC.

 

[DCFseattle]

Easy to win when the rules don't apply to you.

Shady Brady and Bill Belicheat are the biggest frauds in pro sports.

 

[NAZMAN]

Nobody mentioned Shula? Possible the best coach in professional football. Title with the Colts and Dolphins, definitely should be in the conversation.

 

[rockhound24_rivals]

Lombardi, Belichick and Walsh are my top coaches. Before it's done, Belichick may go to the top. I do laugh at the argument of Belichick only being great because of Tom Brady. You guys need to remember that N.E. won their first few Super Bowls with Brady being a manager of the game. NOT the focal point. Brady and Big Ben have a lot in common there. Belichick has totally changed the way the game is coached and played during his tenure. He's won with all kinds of teams. Good running teams, Good passing teams, Good Defenses and Decent Defenses. Belichick's coaching prowess was on full display when Brady got hurt in the first quarter of the first game and Matt Castle won like 11 games that season. He was the first coach to utilize the multiple TE formations as well. His teams are versatile as well. Look at players like Edelman and Troy Brown. His "Do you Job" approach seems simple, but how many times do we see star players do just the opposite. N.E. doesn't seem to have star players. (in the team sense) Look at the cast of skill players as well. Cory Dillon, Blount, Kevin Faulk, and a band of WR that wouldn't scare anyone except Randy Moss. Belichick does have some personality flaws... but the dude can coach as good as anyone ever.

 

[Michigan Fan]

Nobody mentioned Shula? Possible the best coach in professional football. Title with the Colts and Dolphins, definitely should be in the conversation.

Paul Brown as well...Titles in two different leagues and the father of modern coaching....Weeb Ewbank, Bill Walsh, Chuck Noll and Don Shula are part of his coaching tree

 

[UKWinsAgainYep]

Yes, I believe he is the best pro football coach of all time. When you look what he accomplishes in this modern age with constant changing players, it's amazing. He's my favorite coach. I'm a huge Pats fan.

 

[DSmith21]

He did coach the Browns in the 90s...something that many forget...coached them for 5 years and only had one winning season...

Not only was Belichick the head coach of the Browns but Nick Saben was his defensive co-ordinator.

 

[ukalumni00]

Great coach but his past cheating issues always leaves me wondering what he is doing now to gain an advantage. It also helps he has probably the best owner in the NFL and a tremendous front office who evaluates talent and needs for the team better than anyone else in the league. Last, he has Tom Brady. Give Stoops a Brady like talent and he would look like a genius as well. No doubt, will go down as one of the best whether you like him or not. The rings is what it is all about.

 

[Michigan Fan]

Not only was Belichick the head coach of the Browns but Nick Saben was his defensive co-ordinator.

I know....I'm a Cowboys fans but the Browns are my AFC Team-(Father is a huge Browns Fan and we go to a Browns Home Game once a year). Yes, the Browns were a solid franchise until the return...

 

[JasonS.]

He's gotta be in the conversation for me, along with guys like Coach K, Walsh, Saban and Knight (talking in my lifetime).

Baseball's harder because of the debatable role of how important managers are (or are not), especially today when most MLB teams are run by spreadsheet.

 

[TeoJ]

Nobody mentioned Shula? Possible the best coach in professional football. Title with the Colts and Dolphins, definitely should be in the conversation.

No,it can't be Shula he coached at Kentucky.

 

[Deeeefense]

What always stands out about Belichick's team is how fundamentally sound they are. The line executes the blocking schemes correctly, the receivers run the routes correctly, the QB throws to the correct receiver, accurately and on time. On defense they always line up correctly, they read their keys correctly and they are sure handed tacklers excellent pass defenders. They also rarely make unforced errors or draw mental penalties like false starts. Another thing they do well is adjust for injuries. There are times when they are missing numerous starters but still find a way in play well. When you play the Pats you know you will almost always get their A game and they won't beat themselves.

I'm not sure where Belicheck ranks with other pro coaches. Lombardi, Paul Brown, and Tom Landry are also names that should be in the conversation. Bill Walsh wasn't half bad either. Can't really compare a college coach to pro coach.

 

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

Last, he has Tom Brady. Give Stoops a Brady like talent and he would look like a genius as well.

Understand this line of thinking - but as I said earlier, I think you have the cart before the horse. I'd say it this way: Brady has Bill Belichick. Give Rogers/Manning/Brees/etc. a coach like Belichick, they'd have multiple Super Bowl wins and be called "greatest ever."

A lot of smoke on the cheating thing. I'm not a Pats fan, so i can be fairly objective about this. The ESPN report - the one that came out months after the inflated football controversy first broke - that talked about how disliked the Pats are around the league, was pretty damning. Other teams are convinced the Patriots will cheat, will do whatever to get an advantage. My guess is they aren't afraid to venture into gray areas. They won't just out and out flagrantly cheat the game of football, but if they can tweak something here or there to get an advantage, they will do it. Some will call that cheating, others won't, and still others won't but will say it's cheating here because they hate the Patriots.....