He's not a FA for 2 more years, and I guarantee he signs for more then league minimum when he does.
OT: NJ Devils 2023-2024 Thread
- Thread starter Tango Two
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I can see why the Devils got rid of Holtz, in that he appears to be a player who isn’t defensively responsible enough right now to be anywhere except the top 6, but he is nowhere near good enough yet to be top 6 on a team with such offensive talent.
I think it is a smart move by Vegas, because they have traded away so many draft picks recently that they may have the opportunity to try him in a more prominent role than the Devils would.
Also looks like Schmid was looking for a pretty big raise. Agent was asking $3+mil. For a guy who isn't proven at the NHL level, that hurts his value.
Which would be the complete opposite of Cotter's situation. A guy who is proven and is literally making league minimum.
This is all context that needs to be considered.
Which would be the complete opposite of Cotter's situation. A guy who is proven and is literally making league minimum.
This is all context that needs to be considered.
My opinion is NOT a minority opinion across Devils media and social media. As previously stated I really like our new hitter. My problem is with how this management group broke the 3rd wall and publically abused the young sniper. This and jerking him around, with playing time and linemates ( hurt) his value.
Everyone who reads this thread knows I would love N. Zadorov. While it is not happening, let me use Zadorov to illustrate what I mean by Fitzgerald's poor asset management.
Say reports are true and we sign the Tarrytown NY native and Dillon, but shockingly also Zadorov, Bertuzzi, and Martinook. Great RIGHT? Well we ended up in bidding wars and gave Zadorov 7 years with a 9 million AAV. By the time we are done there is no money for Mercer. So we end up trading his rights for pennies on the dollar due to the Cap.
I'm happy right? I have wanted Zadorov on the Devils for a long time. I'm also a fan of Bertuzzi, Martinook, and Dillon.
Answer is I'm NOT happy because we didn't stay on budget and in this example would lose Mercer for very little. You see it all comes down to asset management. A GM should always buy low and sell high. Even though you may love the new hitter and buy the hate of the old player, a little comprehension of the subject should show how easy it is to screw up a team with poor asset management!
While I like Cotter, I remember the "pain" of a terrible season that allowed us to have that 7th overall pick. To trade him at 22 for a bottom 6 forward, we could have gotten with a pick maybe 2 is inexcusable! Case closed.
Everyone who reads this thread knows I would love N. Zadorov. While it is not happening, let me use Zadorov to illustrate what I mean by Fitzgerald's poor asset management.
Say reports are true and we sign the Tarrytown NY native and Dillon, but shockingly also Zadorov, Bertuzzi, and Martinook. Great RIGHT? Well we ended up in bidding wars and gave Zadorov 7 years with a 9 million AAV. By the time we are done there is no money for Mercer. So we end up trading his rights for pennies on the dollar due to the Cap.
I'm happy right? I have wanted Zadorov on the Devils for a long time. I'm also a fan of Bertuzzi, Martinook, and Dillon.
Answer is I'm NOT happy because we didn't stay on budget and in this example would lose Mercer for very little. You see it all comes down to asset management. A GM should always buy low and sell high. Even though you may love the new hitter and buy the hate of the old player, a little comprehension of the subject should show how easy it is to screw up a team with poor asset management!
While I like Cotter, I remember the "pain" of a terrible season that allowed us to have that 7th overall pick. To trade him at 22 for a bottom 6 forward, we could have gotten with a pick maybe 2 is inexcusable! Case closed.
Yes he will. I hope he comes here and plays great. No matter what though Vegas fleeced us on this one.
Ya he's worth the gamble. He get's shots on net, and for a guy with a good shot, that's a good thing.
But as I note above it's not just about defensive play. It's about compete level in all aspects of the game. Did Holtz ever win a board battle that led to a rush up ice? Did he ever win a board battle in the O-zone, and attack the net with the puck? If he did it was super rare. He didn't win board battles, he didn't earn takeaways, he didn't block shots, he didn't hit, he didn't draw penalties. He is the epitome of soft.
No he will not. Not if he plays like he has the last 2 years.
Bastian by comparison makes $1.3m. Cotter is better then Bastian.
The yes he will was me agreeing with your assessment that Cotter signs for more than minimum his next contract.
Bastian was a nice story for a short time. After this off season he probably is done.
I posted Bastian as a comparison for contract. Shows the value of Cotter at league minimum. In a cap league this needs to be considered when talking trade winners.
As does Schmid's impending contract.
We offered him in two packages for top players and both times were shot down, the first time it was for Meier and the Sharks rejected it and we had to replace Holtz with Muk, the second time was for Markstrom, the Flames didn't want Holtz either.
I think you're over valuating Holtz's stock, I don't think Fitz was going to get anything great with him, I think he got the best deal possible and a good one, Cotter is exactly what Devils fans have been begging for the past couple years.
If there is anything to get on Fitz when it comes to Holtz it's drafting him, we could have taken, Quinn, Rossi or even Jarvis.
People point to Muk over Holtz in that Meier deal.
But I wonder if Sharks also preferred Zetterlund over Holtz?
In terms of real time usage, Devils certainly preferred to play Z over Holtz, was Fitz still hoping Holtz would develop? Did he think he could use him in another package later? Or did the Sharks just prefer Zetterlund?
This is the FA market most teams overpay for players at this stage. Except for the Palat deal I think Fitz has done a fantastic job managing the contracts for this team. Will he overpay for an FA this year, probably but again that is expected. Zadorov is my #1 hope, I don't think we get him, he has already turned down good money from the Canucks. When we do overpay for Pesce, Zadorov, or Dillion, I hope we don't give any of them more than a 4-5 year deal.
I think Zetterlund was a key piece of the trade but not a top piece. When the package was offered to the Sharks it was either/or with Muk or Holtz, but not both.
I think when the Flames passed on Holtz, that was the stock killer for him that sent red flags across the league to other teams.
Since this fleecing went down, Fitz has been getting rightfully hammered. I think those stories about Holtz's value is just GM spin to quell the anger many fans have.
In the wake of the Taylor Hall 1 for 1 trade which pissed off Oilers fans, there were similar stories.
Yes all aspects must be considered. I like over 200 hit guy Cotter, I just truly believe we overpaid.
It's not a fleecing, Holtz is a very limited player, he has an elite slapshot and not much else.
Isn't it a telling sign that two teams wanted nothing to do with him?
Adam Boqivst was bought out by the Blue Jackets, the 8th overall 2018 draft. Wonder if their fans are going to go nuts for not giving him more time or even trying to deal him.
We may have, but Fitz clearly didn't care.
Part of ripping on and then trading Holtz for a physical guy like Cotter, saying we need guys who drag players into the weight room, drafting nothing but 6'3" guys including a big *** overager who is clearly more hitter/fighter then hockey player, likely adding a guy like Dillon who is a big hitter, this is Fitz sending a message to the players already on the team that we have changed direction in terms of style of play. Or at least in terms of compete level that will be demanded of the players.
So did Fitz not get full value on a talented but super soft former #7 OA? Maybe, but you of all people should approve of what Fitz is putting value on, ie physical play. And then, oh yeah, the contract considerations.
This is really not the fleecing some internet guys are making this out to be.
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Ha, so not only did they get nothing for him, but he's still going to count against the cap? Moves like this and the Holtz trade show the lack of value for some players around the league despite the fact that fans still have love for former high picks.
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Again that 2 team story drops only because the GM was getting hammered. As such I don't buy it. It isn't the first time there has been stories dropped right at the moment many are angry.
As far as fleecing, I call it like I see it. My opinion only. I believe having followed both trades in question, if the "new" Intel was true, it would have been reported somewhere. It was not.
I don't feel like keep posting about this, as such while you are right he doesn't do the non goal scoring stuff well. I will end with this , in the history of the NHL how many goal scorers with his shot have played a tough physical 2-way game? My answer is not many. Remember some of the Things they used to say about Jagr in Washington?
No usually especially with young twenties snipers, they don't get squeezed because they have not rounded out their game. They get coached outside public view, and get praised when they put the puck in the net. The whole team didn't play tough until Macdermid showed up, and even then the effort was uneven! Oh P S. I didn't even mention how his linemates kept changing. That by itself effects most players.
Sad to see fans crying we need to get bigger and tougher . Then GM goes out and addresses the issue by trading a #5 depth goalie and a sniper who can’t cut it in the nhl and then they continue crying . Does anything make you happy . What side of the fence are you on
Which is why I put the most blame at Fitzgerald's feet. I believe if you give him 1 last chance under Keefe he raises his value before the trade deadline.
We see this differently, I like Cotter but think we overpaid. You are fine with all of it. As such we disagree.
So I am left now to wish you a great day, and here is hoping Cotter makes everyone forget how he became a Devil.
Will Holtz score 30+ for Vegas at some point? I can see that happening. All the signs point that Holtz was not wanted here, and did not fit into the style of play. Devils are in a win-now mode and you can not keep putting him out there in the hope that he fits in. It looks like they took what they could get and moved on.
Dropped by whom? It's not spin, it's common sense, Holtz has been on the trading block and we know that Sharks preferred Muk over Holtz and it's common sense if Fitz could have sent him to Calgary, he would have. Probably why he was forced to include a #1 instead.
Btw, Holtz played in all 82 games (surprised me too), I don't know if it's fair to say he wasn't given an even shot.
Dropped by an organization that is getting hammered. We see this differently. I like Cotter but would have traded something else period.
In my mind the mere fact his linemates kept changing and every single mistake clued him to the bench is enough to phrase it the way I did. Remember the game we lost 2-1 where Holtz scored the one, but got sat down late in the 2nd and all of the 3rd, even with the goalie pulled late. We lost that game, this is what I mean. No other player was held to such a high standard. With all of this consider, he did well scoring 16 goals. I'm not sure if the stat is kept but if it is, see how many times he was sat down in game for a mistake. If he was given the leeway a player like Bahl was given, he would have scored 20 + goals last year. However no other Devil was held to such a high standard. It got to the point where in game I was calling out others mistakes, mostly on defense, and marking it as a mistake that would have cost Holtz playing time.
I don't think they care what public opinion is to be honest, I mean why should they?
No other player holds these honors either.
Amongst NJ fwd's Holtz was dead last in penalties drawn rate last year.
Also dead last in takeaways/60. Just about a 2-1 giveaway-takeaway ratio.
2nd to last in blocked shots/60. (toffoli was worse, so he's kind of last here too).
It wasn't just about mistakes.
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They don't. As for why they should IDK check all the season ticket loses they are taking.
I would assume 3rd paring which means probably no Pesce. So does FA money go to a LHD and top 6 forward? I know +/- might be overrated, With the number of games he played the last two years the fact he was a + in both seasons on a bad team.
You are assuming Kovacevik can play off hand? not sure as a RHD he can play that side. I know Pesce has, we need someone to play the left side more
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