haywood called this out but the biggest problem with this team is lack of confidence. Gaines is by no means the most skilled player on the team but he plays with swagger. Law and Turner were so tentative with the press, but Gaines would just dribble it up not worried about screwing up. Gaines doesn’t have a pretty shot but he hits clutch FTs; unfortunately I could tell by the look on Turners face that he was gonna miss. Next year Gaines is the leader of this team and maybe his toughness becomes our identity. I love Law but surprised that he played so well and yet tentative against the press. Cc may deserve some blame for the kids playing tentative too.
Other than Gaines and maybe Pardon, team plays with no confidence
- Thread starter torque-cat
- Start date
Actually, Gaines makes me think of Mohamed Hachad. Sanjay had more physical strength but was neither as fast or rangy. Hachad is still playing professionally in France.
IMHO, Collins gets to Gaines' senior year before he hits the hot seat and then the team has to be judged on the roster at that time. Currently, there are 7 members of that team signed with one verbal. So there are five open spots.
If you want to know why I am so patient: This year's class (2019) is the first class that Collins will recruit with a dedicated practice facility and new arena. First time he is recruiting with the same facilities as his peers.
If you want to know why I am so patient: This year's class (2019) is the first class that Collins will recruit with a dedicated practice facility and new arena. First time he is recruiting with the same facilities as his peers.
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there is no practice facility yet. closer to 2020. team is still practicing at a gym somewhere on the campus that the students use, but its not the new building on the lakefront.
I'm in the camp of....the clock resets when the team makes the tournament so Collins is in year two with a six or seven year runway.
Two factors...it's NU....recent precedent.
NU is not back in the "Dark Ages" (see O'Neill, Kevin, et al), but rather we're back in the Carmody, mediocre, we-can-rack-up-wins-against-bad-non-cons-and-occasionally-win-a-BIG-game era. The farther removed we are from the tourney team, the more mediocre we become. It's nice to have a new arena, a few four-star recruits and relatively fresh memories of the NCAA tourney experience, but losses to bad teams (Penn State) and gut-wrenching snatches of defeat from the jaws of victory games (Michigan, Oklahoma, Iowa), well that's just Northwestern being Northwestern.
I think the difference is that BC's teams had less physical talent but used more creative or unique schemes (Princeton Offense, 1-3-1 zone) which were partial equalizers or would really cause problems for more talented but less disciplined teams. This team is much closer in physical talent to the rest of the big ten but goes head-to-head schematically so the talent difference plays out more normally. But the difference between success and failure is literally about 2-3 buckets going either way--Iowa, UM, Indy, Oklahoma.
And I felt when we made the Dance it reset to minus 5, so we are in year -3 with a 6-7 year runway. (another 10 years)
We are closer. BC got more out of what he had but he had so much less overall that the upper limit was not very high. And with coaching improvements in the BIG, far less chance to find the undisciplined team to beat. Remember his middle years? With this years BIG, I doubt BC results would be very good. CCCs recruiting is at a much higher level but still below what most of our peers in the BIG get. So playing them straight up is a harder proposition. Getting those guys to Jr and Sr years when that talent can be blended with experience is when we are in the best position to compete. I believe CCC will get it done
Yeah, I don't know about that at all. I haven't seen a less athletic NU team in quite a while. Other than perhaps Gaines and (I'm not joking) Pardon, none of these guys can take a defender off the dribble.
Hilarious and I completely agree.
On a serious note, all this board consternation about how crappy NU is doing, how Collins sucks, etc., etc.
My great fear is Collins shifting from "it can be done here with enough effort and charisma" to "the built negatives at NU {ADMISSIONS} are greater than even I understood and I've given it enough time."
Uh, how long have you been watching NU bball? We never have a guy who can take a guy off the dribble. Bmac could dribble but he didn't exactly "take" defenders.
it
Well first I think you have to define what "it" is. I think we all have slightly (maybe dramatically?) different definitions of what "it" is. I will admit that after the NCAA tourney year, I was defining "it" as being competitive most years, in the running for the NCAA or at least the NIT every year, and recruiting at least in the middle of the BIG each year. I also was hoping Collins was something "special" as a coach -- a unicorn who could figure out how to win games he shouldn't necessarily win, and whose teams exhibited all the symptoms of a well-coached team -- efficient, winning a majority of close games, manifesting a certain cumulative personality or identity that made his program unique -- and uniquely attractive to "his kind of recruits."
Haven't seen much of that. So I've resigned myself to the fact Collins is probably an average BIG coach, and that all the Northwestern idiosyncrasies will take their toll on him, just as they did on Tex, Falk, Foster, Ricky, O'Neill and Carmody. (I mean, losing your highly-regarded freshman PG to a mysterious malfeasance too late in the recruiting cycle to do anything about it is SO Northwestern). I was hoping Collins was somehow "different" and he could overcome those NU eccentricities. I'm now coming to the conclusion he's probably not. Nice new arena, though.
Well first I think you have to define what "it" is. I think we all have slightly (maybe dramatically?) different definitions of what "it" is. I will admit that after the NCAA tourney year, I was defining "it" as being competitive most years, in the running for the NCAA or at least the NIT every year, and recruiting at least in the middle of the BIG each year. I also was hoping Collins was something "special" as a coach -- a unicorn who could figure out how to win games he shouldn't necessarily win, and whose teams exhibited all the symptoms of a well-coached team -- efficient, winning a majority of close games, manifesting a certain cumulative personality or identity that made his program unique -- and uniquely attractive to "his kind of recruits."
Haven't seen much of that. So I've resigned myself to the fact Collins is probably an average BIG coach, and that all the Northwestern idiosyncrasies will take their toll on him, just as they did on Tex, Falk, Foster, Ricky, O'Neill and Carmody. (I mean, losing your highly-regarded freshman PG to a mysterious malfeasance too late in the recruiting cycle to do anything about it is SO Northwestern). I was hoping Collins was somehow "different" and he could overcome those NU eccentricities. I'm now coming to the conclusion he's probably not. Nice new arena, though.
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Twenty-plus years. You?
McIntosh, T.J. Parker, the aforementioned Hachad, Pat Baldwin, Geno Carlisle over that time. Remember this guy, too?
I know you won't take offense, but are you another person who when I say "a long time ago," your conception of "a long time ago" is like three or four years in the past? Don't worry, that's most people.
You're correct about McIntosh. What allowed him to get in the lane is that he was excellent with his off hand, which forced the defender to open up more on him, along with his ability to shoot from a number of release points, to overcome some of his athletic limitations.
Average? Which 4 or 5 B1G head coaches would you say are below him? It saddens me to say that I thing he might be one of the weakest of the current head coaches......
I would certainly cite Tim Miles. Seems like a nice guy (could be wrong), but I don't know how you characterize his tenure as anything but a failure. Much more to work with than Collins and his teams are getting worse. Chambers at PSU. I'm assuming both of them will be canned. I'm underwhelmed (no pun intended) by Underwood and Pitino.
Contrary to what a couple knuckleheads say, I like the Collins hire. The guy has never been a head coach at the collegiate level prior to this. It takes time. Look at guys like Tommy Amaker and Johnny Dawkins. It's taken til their third stops as head coaches for them to really develop stability and to build their programs instead of just keeping their heads above water. People talk about Wojo for open positions like UCLA now because of the great year Marquette is having. I've watched his teams up until this point. He's a had one...one...Tournament team before this year and his teams have generally been okay but not by any stretch of the imagination great.
The thing with Collins is that recruiting has to improve. People here make it seem like there's been some exponential jump. You can see with the current freshmen that there are no superstars and no great athletes. These guys will be good. They could be very good, but with all of Chicago in the backyard and Milwaukee just up the road, the program has no excuses for not having better athletes on the floor. Believe me, there is a pool of high school players who can qualify at NU and are the type of athletes who can compete against top-half Big Ten teams.
I am referring to the Trienens Performance Center under construction next to Welsh-Ryan. Assuming that the building is a go next fall or shortly thereafter, the incoming class will be the first recruited with the anticipation of a stadium and separate practice facility. I do not consider Bloomquist with stickers on the wall to be a real practice facility and sorry if I suggested the same.
The difference between the present and the past is that now we expect our fans to donate hundreds or thousands of dollars in order to earn the right to buy season tickets. Not sure how many people are going to keep shelling out if the standard is "make the tournament once every 7 years."
And yes, I know it's NU, and I know "once every 7 years" is a lot better than "once every 78 years." But we're only two years removed from the historic NCAA berth and interest in the team is already cratering. What do you think Welsh-Ryan is going to look like in 2023 if we still haven't made it back?
"Very good" would be an exponential jump.
But I'm not sure I disagree that recruiting needs to improve. Maybe recruiting doesn't need to improve. They're getting guys rated better than most NU coaches have in the past.
However, that makes me wonder if talent evaluation needs to be upgraded.
Yes, I'm nit picking, but it's an important distinction for NU.
24 years. Hachad was great on the break and had some flash, but by no means a consistent scorer off the dribble. TJ was a blur but limited offensively. BMac could dribble and hit some shots but not a consistent threat off the dribble--recall last year when he consistently dribbled forever and usually ended up with a low percentage shot. Geno was legit and the last true off dribble scorer I can recall at NU. We have been griping that we are one true off-dribble creator from being a good team for decades. This year's team has more top to bottom talent, but still no true scorer off the dribble.
The ratings thing can be so misleading when comparing to the past. Some of these services and evaluators weren't even around, so you're making highly questionable comparisons, plus players are simply seen much more now than in the past.
I don't see a whole lot of difference, top to bottom. I'm not going to single out players, but I still see a number of guys on the bench who simply aren't Big Ten-level players. I'm sure they're great guys and I know they represent the school well, but they aren't what NU needs on the floor.
The Cats have almost never had top level talent. A total of 17 players who have run the floor at McGaw/Welsh Ryan have played in the NBA. Ten of those graduated before 1970, and of the 7 who joined the league since 1970, 2 transferred out of the program before graduating (Rex Walters and Geno Carlisle).
In this decade, one NU player has played any minutes, and that to date included a grand total of seven minutes played.
This give rise to trivia questions:
1) Which NU player had the 7 minutes in the NBA this decade?
2) Which 2 NU alumni account for more than half of all the minutes played in the NBA by all players ever to represent NU?
In this decade, one NU player has played any minutes, and that to date included a grand total of seven minutes played.
This give rise to trivia questions:
1) Which NU player had the 7 minutes in the NBA this decade?
2) Which 2 NU alumni account for more than half of all the minutes played in the NBA by all players ever to represent NU?
Is that song playing over Juice's YouTube clips some sort of remix of Tom's Diner by Suzanne Vega??
The expectations for this freshman class were unreasonably high, and I'm as guilty as anyone of that. Heck, a lot of people were saying this recruiting class was the best ever in NU history, with Lathon, Nance, Kopp (all four stars) and Young. Obviously losing Lathon was a gut punch that changed the dynamics of the whole class, and the team. The fact that we landed Greer at the last minute helped, but it turns out that 3 of the 4 freshmen - Nance, Young, and Greer - all should've been redshirted and not only Young. We didn't have that option so that's too bad. It's still a good class and by all accounts Nance will be a star once his body matures.
Bingo! Along with Mark Sibley, a Cat that played in the NBA but is never mentioned as being among the best players to ever play at NU.