Other than Gaines and maybe Pardon, team plays with no confidence

torque-cat

Redshirt
Dec 11, 2018
1,234
0
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What about Demps?

He made some really nice clutch buckets but I don't think he was a consistent off-dribble scorer. But not a bad call. That said, my original point was that this team is more talented than most NU teams. Someone stated that the absence of an off-dribble scorer means the talent is not really better--I don't think guys like Demps equalize talent, though he would be a decent addition to this team.
 

hdhntr1

All-Conference
Sep 5, 2006
37,426
1,174
113
Yeah, I don't know about that at all. I haven't seen a less athletic NU team in quite a while. Other than perhaps Gaines and (I'm not joking) Pardon, none of these guys can take a defender off the dribble.
If that is your sole determining factor of athleticism, not sure what to say. Generally you expect that out of the PG or possibly the 2 guard. We already know we are short a starting PG and that is the big issue as that is who you expect to take someone off the dribble. While we have one (and he has shown that he can get to the rim, other parts of his game are not solid enough to get him minutes yet. Otherwise, the team is athletic enough.
 

hdhntr1

All-Conference
Sep 5, 2006
37,426
1,174
113
Average? Which 4 or 5 B1G head coaches would you say are below him? It saddens me to say that I thing he might be one of the weakest of the current head coaches......
Look, CCC is an outstanding recruiter. It takes that to get just to the middle of the BIG at NU. But the rest of the BIG has upped their games as well and the BIG is recruiting overall at the highest levels I have seen in decades making the job that much tougher even though we likely have the best overall HC we have had. The coaching in the BIG overall is really the best I have seen it, So other than the top couple coaches, there is very little separating the rest of the conference. Who in the conference is a bad coach? Frankly I don't see one.
 

eastbaycat99

Sophomore
Mar 7, 2009
2,520
171
48
Look, CCC is an outstanding recruiter. It takes that to get just to the middle of the BIG at NU. But the rest of the BIG has upped their games as well and the BIG is recruiting overall at the highest levels I have seen in decades making the job that much tougher even though we likely have the best overall HC we have had. The coaching in the BIG overall is really the best I have seen it, So other than the top couple coaches, there is very little separating the rest of the conference. Who in the conference is a bad coach? Frankly I don't see one.

This seems a little hyperbolic to me. Collins has gotten some good recruits who proved successful, but those were at the start of his tenure and largely based on where he had been and what his name was as well as who he is as HC of NU. He has landed a few highly rated guys who have yet to show if they match hype, and if they do, i will agree with the outstanding recruiter accolade.
With 4espect to being the best HC NU has had, he had a one very good year as far as results go. Another one might cement the title with respect to success at NU as the criterion for best HC.
From a strict standpoint of demonstrating through a total body of work (not just at NU) I think you would have to say Winter and Foster were better coaches to this point in CCC's career, and if you look at the total package of building a good team from scratch for a single season, I think Rich Falk and the 82-83 team is the best in my years as Cats fan.
 

hdhntr1

All-Conference
Sep 5, 2006
37,426
1,174
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I would certainly cite Tim Miles. Seems like a nice guy (could be wrong), but I don't know how you characterize his tenure as anything but a failure. Much more to work with than Collins and his teams are getting worse. Chambers at PSU. I'm assuming both of them will be canned. I'm underwhelmed (no pun intended) by Underwood and Pitino.

Contrary to what a couple knuckleheads say, I like the Collins hire. The guy has never been a head coach at the collegiate level prior to this. It takes time. Look at guys like Tommy Amaker and Johnny Dawkins. It's taken til their third stops as head coaches for them to really develop stability and to build their programs instead of just keeping their heads above water. People talk about Wojo for open positions like UCLA now because of the great year Marquette is having. I've watched his teams up until this point. He's a had one...one...Tournament team before this year and his teams have generally been okay but not by any stretch of the imagination great.

The thing with Collins is that recruiting has to improve. People here make it seem like there's been some exponential jump. You can see with the current freshmen that there are no superstars and no great athletes. These guys will be good. They could be very good, but with all of Chicago in the backyard and Milwaukee just up the road, the program has no excuses for not having better athletes on the floor. Believe me, there is a pool of high school players who can qualify at NU and are the type of athletes who can compete against top-half Big Ten teams.
Sorry but I do not really think there is a bad coach in the BIG. A couple that may not have lived up to some expectations but not really a bad HC. Mills this year is the victim of the dreaded injury bug. Chambers did pretty well last year and this year rebuilding.,

CCCs recruiting has been pretty solid by comparison to anything we have seen at NU in a while. He had an unfortunate situation in that the PG of the future did something at the last minute leaving a huge hole. But overall for this years class he had 3 4 stars slated to come in. And another, the highest rated recruit in next years class. You can argue whether he has the right overall mix but not about the level of his recruiting
 

hdhntr1

All-Conference
Sep 5, 2006
37,426
1,174
113
"Very good" would be an exponential jump.

But I'm not sure I disagree that recruiting needs to improve. Maybe recruiting doesn't need to improve. They're getting guys rated better than most NU coaches have in the past.

However, that makes me wonder if talent evaluation needs to be upgraded.

Yes, I'm nit picking, but it's an important distinction for NU.
If you cannot see the talent level in this years recruits, I do not know what to say. You can argue whether we have the right mix, but not the quality. And had Lathon not pulled a Lathon, this team likely would have been just fine. His actions potentially cost this team two years as thinking we had our PG, recruiting for that position took a back seat for the class of 2019 and recruiting of top PGs had NU pretty much out of the picture. While maybe we might get a late high level PG or a grad transfer at the position (more likely and a one year solution) truly addressing it will have to wait for the 2020 class.
 

hdhntr1

All-Conference
Sep 5, 2006
37,426
1,174
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Twenty-plus years. You?

McIntosh, T.J. Parker, the aforementioned Hachad, Pat Baldwin, Geno Carlisle over that time. Remember this guy, too?

I know you won't take offense, but are you another person who when I say "a long time ago," your conception of "a long time ago" is like three or four years in the past? Don't worry, that's most people.

You're correct about McIntosh. What allowed him to get in the lane is that he was excellent with his off hand, which forced the defender to open up more on him, along with his ability to shoot from a number of release points, to overcome some of his athletic limitations.

Sorry but other than when we had both Hachad and TJ, we have never had more than one at a time. While we are short this year, and possibly next year, because of Lathon's actions, it won't be forever.
 

hdhntr1

All-Conference
Sep 5, 2006
37,426
1,174
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The expectations for this freshman class were unreasonably high, and I'm as guilty as anyone of that. Heck, a lot of people were saying this recruiting class was the best ever in NU history, with Lathon, Nance, Kopp (all four stars) and Young. Obviously losing Lathon was a gut punch that changed the dynamics of the whole class, and the team. The fact that we landed Greer at the last minute helped, but it turns out that 3 of the 4 freshmen - Nance, Young, and Greer - all should've been redshirted and not only Young. We didn't have that option so that's too bad. It's still a good class and by all accounts Nance will be a star once his body matures.
This years Frosh class was good enough. The loss of Lathon really set us back and Nance development has been stunted by the Mono. They only real chance for this years class to make a major impact was Lathon as we had depth at the other positions keeping them from seeing a lot of the floor. I expect pretty good things starting next year out of Nance and Kopp as they have a shot at a lot of open minutes with the departure of Law, Taylor and Pardon. I think Young could be a real surprise. And hopefully Greer takes that next step
 

IdahoAlum

Freshman
May 29, 2001
3,832
85
0
If you cannot see the talent level in this years recruits, I do not know what to say. You can argue whether we have the right mix, but not the quality. And had Lathon not pulled a Lathon, this team likely would have been just fine. His actions potentially cost this team two years as thinking we had our PG, recruiting for that position took a back seat for the class of 2019 and recruiting of top PGs had NU pretty much out of the picture. While maybe we might get a late high level PG or a grad transfer at the position (more likely and a one year solution) truly addressing it will have to wait for the 2020 class.
No, you really CAN argue the quality. Because quality has to translate to production, and so far, there has been very little production from this year's freshmen class. None of them is shooting better than 35 percent from the field, averaging more than 1.5 rebounds or 3.8 points a game. Do they have potential? Maybe. We'll see as they mature. But you can't make declarations about their quality based on this year's production alone.

Nor can you make blanket statements that this year's team "would have been fine" had Jordan Lathon showed up. Right now he has more personal fouls than assists, and nearly as many turnovers. Would he have been a nice addition to a team without a PG? Absolutely. But he would have been a freshman in a very tough league. Maybe he makes the difference in a game or two. Maybe not.

There is still a lot to be written in the story of this year's recruiting class, and I don't think any of us knows how that story will play out just yet.
 

Purple Pile Driver

All-Conference
May 14, 2014
27,311
2,717
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No, you really CAN argue the quality. Because quality has to translate to production, and so far, there has been very little production from this year's freshmen class. None of them is shooting better than 35 percent from the field, averaging more than 1.5 rebounds or 3.8 points a game. Do they have potential? Maybe. We'll see as they mature. But you can't make declarations about their quality based on this year's production alone.

Nor can you make blanket statements that this year's team "would have been fine" had Jordan Lathon showed up. Right now he has more personal fouls than assists, and nearly as many turnovers. Would he have been a nice addition to a team without a PG? Absolutely. But he would have been a freshman in a very tough league. Maybe he makes the difference in a game or two. Maybe not.

There is still a lot to be written in the story of this year's recruiting class, and I don't think any of us knows how that story will play out just yet.
It is hard to be production when the HC really doesn’t trust Freshman.