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phife dawg

Redshirt
Jun 29, 2009
50
25
11
Long time reader, but don't post too much on here. I try not to get too emotionally involved with the program, which is hard for obvious reasons. I wanted to do a quick objective analysis of the Schiano vs. Ash first few years to see how they both faired with recruiting (rivals rankings / star assignment) as well as their record.

There are obvious outside factors that influence both (different league / competition, different programs when each started their tenure at RU, different facilities, etc...), however, keeping those variables out of the equation, Ash actually does compare similarly if not favorably in his 2 plus years here:



Thoughts?
 
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Yeah Baby

All-American
Aug 14, 2001
19,261
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Agree 100% though Ash has more to start with. Both played very tough schedules. At that time, Miami and Va Texh were two of the beat programs in Football. Played ND out of conference a couple of times. Plus we didn’t have any depth. So a lot of similarities.
 
P

patk89

All-Conference
Jul 25, 2001
6,320
2,447
78
Not really a valid comparison. After Shea, RU was most likely the worst college football team. Temple was head and shoulders better. Poor facilities, non-competitive roster, smallish stadium, poor student participation, no identity. Then the Big East started to fall apart causing greater uncertainty.

Schiano had to build a program from scratch. Build a brand. Change the image. It took time but there were signs before 2005 that things were headed in the right direction. The blowouts were less common. We started to look like a quality team. He went toe to toe in recruiting, still losing the national guys but pulling in guys who would go on to play in the NFL like Zuttah and Britt.

Fast forward to post Flood. We are now in the B1G with great exposure. Relatively recently won a bowl game. Stadium expansion done. But recruiting has not gone well. We are an underdog to B12 doormat Kansas in year 3. Really hoping that things start to click and we win convincingly this weekend. Fans want to see progress. Not beating the big dogs, but not falling behind 35-0 at the half like last week.
 
S

Scarlet_Scourge

Heisman
May 25, 2012
26,524
13,604
0
Ash started with better facilities and Conference but a much, much harder schedule.
Schiano started with a much easier schedule, with only having to worry about Da'U and VT, meanwhile Ash has to worry about OSU, UM, PSU, MSU, UW, Iowa, Nebraska, etc.

Talent wise, it was pretty much about the same, Flood really did set us back that much. I know people find this hard to believe but it is true. Ash maybe had less than 5 Big Ten level players in those 1st 2 years. Schiano had about the same less than 5 Big east level players.

Hopefully Ash turns it around just like Schiano did
 
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patk89

All-Conference
Jul 25, 2001
6,320
2,447
78
GS beat Mich State in 2004. Gave ranked WVU and BC trouble later in the season. Building. The talent level was being improved. Yet, some posters at that time wanted him fired based on his won-lost record. What people want to see is the talent level improving even if it is not reflected in the record. Last week was a disaster.
 
P

phife dawg

Redshirt
Jun 29, 2009
50
25
11
patk89 said:
GS beat Mich State in 2004. Gave ranked WVU and BC trouble later in the season. Building. The talent level was being improved. Yet, some posters at that time wanted him fired based on his won-lost record. What people want to see is the talent level improving even if it is not reflected in the record. Last week was a disaster.
Click to expand...

I understand everyone's frustration with the last few years - what I was trying to do is to illustrate objective comparison of recruiting and records - taking all other variables aside.
  • GS beat MSU in 2004, which was his 4th year as HC and his overall record was 4-7 against arguably lesser competition (2 ranked teams, both losses, wins against MSU, Kent State, Vanderbilt, and Temple WE LOST TO NEW HAMPSHIRE). This is Ash's 3rd year.
  • GS had blowout losses - 42-0 vs Pitt in year 1, BuffaNova and 40-0 vs. WV in year 2, and even in year 5 we got blown out by Louisville 56-5.
  • GS had undoubtably some quality recruits, but the only "5 star" and many "4 star" athletes never worked out - 5 star Nate Robinson, 4 star Dwayne Jones, Jerome Messam, etc.
  • GS got us to a bowl game in year 5, and a memorable season in year 6.
I do believe that we're on the right trajectory with Ash. Despite last week's loss, he might actually be ahead of the curve with recruiting and on-field performance. This journey, as shown with GS, will not be a straight line - it will be up and down, but I do believe that the overall trajectory is up.
 
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5

50 yd line RR

All-Conference
Jan 28, 2012
2,603
3,148
108
phife dawg said:
Long time reader, but don't post too much on here. I try not to get too emotionally involved with the program, which is hard for obvious reasons. I wanted to do a quick objective analysis of the Schiano vs. Ash first few years to see how they both faired with recruiting (rivals rankings / star assignment) as well as their record.

There are obvious outside factors that influence both (different league / competition, different programs when each started their tenure at RU, different facilities, etc...), however, keeping those variables out of the equation, Ash actually does compare similarly if not favorably in his 2 plus years here:



Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Good question. One advantage Ash has/ had that Schiano didn't have is Schiano.
I'm sure Schiano through (Urban Meyer) had a long talk with Ash before he even took the job.
What better introduction to the program than from the guy who built the program!
Like Schiano I think Ash is on schedule to do some good things here.Albeit in a bigger stage.
 
Y

Yeah Baby

All-American
Aug 14, 2001
19,261
6,466
0
patk89 said:
GS beat Mich State in 2004. Gave ranked WVU and BC trouble later in the season. Building. The talent level was being improved. Yet, some posters at that time wanted him fired based on his won-lost record. What people want to see is the talent level improving even if it is not reflected in the record. Last week was a disaster.
Click to expand...
MSU was at home in 2004 and it was year 4. Flood almost beat MSU at home in 2015 and won only 4 games. MSU was much better in 2015 than 2004. Ash was close in year 1 at home against Iowa. Wins matter but that 2004 MSU team was nowhere near 2018 OSU. Yes it was a disaster but it was one game. Do you remember what happened the next week? I don’t want to talk about that but it was one game in year 4 at home. Let’s see how we do later this year. Throw last week out. It was in fact a disaster but not a total surprise either.
 
P

patk89

All-Conference
Jul 25, 2001
6,320
2,447
78
Yeah Baby said:
MSU was at home in 2004 and it was year 4. Flood almost beat MSU at home in 2015 and won only 4 games. MSU was much better in 2015 than 2004. Ash was close in year 1 at home against Iowa. Wins matter but that 2004 MSU team was nowhere near 2018 OSU. Yes it was a disaster but it was one game. Do you remember what happened the next week? I don’t want to talk about that but it was one game in year 4 at home. Let’s see how we do later this year. Throw last week out. It was in fact a disaster but not a total surprise either.
Click to expand...

Do you guys remember who was coaching New Hampshire in 2004? Do you feel confident that the 2018 RU team would beat the 2004 New Hampshire team? I'm not. Never indicated that 2004 MSU was anywhere near as good as 2018 OSU, not sure where you come up with that. But that building RU team beat a B1G team that was not Indiana. Flood almost beat MSU with Schiano's players. People seem to think that we are lucky to beat any B1G teams but we did it in 2004 without a program. And crushed Illinois in 2006.
 
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patk89

All-Conference
Jul 25, 2001
6,320
2,447
78
If by awful you mean losing to then #1 Ohio State 17-10 in November, or losing 30-24 to ranked Wisconsin in Madison. Yes, they were awful that year. I hope RU can become that awful.
 
K

koleszar

Heisman
Jan 1, 2010
37,354
58,688
113
patk89 said:
Do you guys remember who was coaching New Hampshire in 2004?
Click to expand...
Well he ain't doing so hot at UCLA right now. I can tell ya that.(I know it's still early in his tenure but they already have 4 and 5 stars dotting their lineups)
 
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