PJ Fleck documentary

[Purple Pile Driver]

http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2017/07/espn_to_air_4-part_series_chro.html

Oh man, 4 part series about Mr. Elite by the program starved ESPN. Minny used to be hard to dislike, this guys Us against the World mantra, row the boat caca, and attention seeking personality is making it much easier.

 

[Eurocat]

http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2017/07/espn_to_air_4-part_series_chro.html

Oh man, 4 part series about Mr. Elite by the program starved ESPN. Minny used to be hard to dislike, this guys Us against the World mantra, row the boat caca, and attention seeking personality is making it much easier.

Dunno why the hate.

Sounds like what Gary Barnett did for us.

 

[Deeringfish]

Dunno why the hate.

Sounds like what Gary Barnett did for us.

Well, since we want town theB1G champions;, That is why the hate.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Dunno why the hate.

Sounds like what Gary Barnett did for us.

Listen to him for 60 seconds and you'll know.

 

[Fitz51]

Life is but a dream.

 

[mickbula]

I get the impression that Coach Fleck is a snake that deals in one field- snake oil. I am not sure whether or not he will be successful in Minny. Time will tell. I just think that he is disingenuous to a fault. What I do know is that I hope we beat his Gopher teams convincingly as many times as given chances for the time he is there. Even though many on WR don't agree, I see PJ to be the next or 2nd next coach at ND. Then, he can pose as twins with their evil and creepy leperachon mascot for as long as he stays their coach. And yes- I hope we win against ND too.

 

[EvanstonCat]

I get the impression that Coach Fleck is a snake that deals in one field- snake oil. I am not sure whether or not he will be successful in Minny. Time will tell. I just think that he is disingenuous to a fault. What I do know is that I hope we beat his Gopher teams convincingly as many times as given chances for the time he is there. Even though many on WR don't agree, I see PJ to be the next or 2nd next coach at ND. Then, he can pose as twins with their evil and creepy leperachon mascot for as long as he stays their coach. And yes- I hope we win against ND too.

Seriously, why the hate? where does this impression come from? He kicked our asses on our field with supposedly inferior talent. I don't know why we wouldn't have anything but respect for him.

The contempt for his row the boat thing is a mystery too. What he accomplished at Western Michigan was Barnettesque. Cue gcg (one of Fleck's biggest haters) enter stage right.

 

[NU Houston]

Seriously, why the hate? where does this impression come from? He kicked our asses on our field with supposedly inferior talent.

They beat us by one point in a game we would have won but for the late goal line fumble. Hardly an ***-kicking.

 

[EvanstonCat]

They beat us by one point in a game we would have won but for the late goal line fumble. Hardly an ***-kicking.

Fair. He beat us. On our field. With inferior talent.

So, why the hate?

 

[NU Houston]

Fair. He beat us. On our field. With inferior talent.

So, why the hate?

The hate's not coming from me. Some people have suggested that he has a reputation in the community for being disingenuous and self-serving. I don't know enough to have an opinion either way.

Regarding inferior talent, WMU had three players taken in the NFL draft (including the #5 overall pick), and we had two. Sounds like we were the team with the inferior talent and still almost pulled off the upset.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

The hate's not coming from me. Some people have suggested that he has a reputation in the community for being disingenuous and self-serving. I don't know enough to have an opinion either way.

Regarding inferior talent, WMU had three players taken in the NFL draft (including the #5 overall pick), and we had two. Sounds like we were the team with the inferior talent and still almost pulled off the upset.

I think he is a jag bag, so I'll take the blame on that one. Strikes me as the kind of guy who would do or say anything to get himself noticed. Some people like him, to each his own.

 

[ubercat]

Life is but a dream.

Shoo wop du wop wop

 

[mickbula]

Just for the record, WMU's recruiting classes while PJ was their coach were each rated higher than NU's. In athletic talent, that is. The only problem was that PJ offered rapists and other criminals to play for him. NU didn't. Look it up in the papers if necessary. I anticipate that PJ will do the same at Minnesota. Take him for what he is worth, Gophers. Maybe the players guilty of sexual assault (this was in the news last season just for the record) still on Minnesota's roster will feel right at home with a coach like PJ.

 

[corbi2961]

Fair. He beat us. On our field. With inferior talent.

So, why the hate?

This has been hashed over in detail before. Take a look at past threads.

 

[CatsDad]

I like Fleck, maybe because he really liked my son and recruited him hard. He was always straight up with me and Jango. He has a great sense of humor and is very hard not to like in person. He is very intelligent and has a great eye for talent and for kids who will buy into his program. I think Minnesota will be a dangerous team. We should want Minnesota to get good, it helps the B1G. Just good enough to lose to us every year. I wish him success except when he plays the Cats.

 

[willycat]

Just for the record, WMU's recruiting classes while PJ was their coach were each rated higher than NU's. In athletic talent, that is. The only problem was that PJ offered rapists and other criminals to play for him. NU didn't. Look it up in the papers if necessary. I anticipate that PJ will do the same at Minnesota. Take him for what he is worth, Gophers. Maybe the players guilty of sexual assault (this was in the news last season just for the record) still on Minnesota's roster will feel right at home with a coach like PJ.

I smell, NCAA investigations and punishments to come, sooner rather then later.

 

[mickbula]

I like Fleck, maybe because he really liked my son and recruited him hard. He was always straight up with me and Jango. He has a great sense of humor and is very hard not to like in person. He is very intelligent and has a great eye for talent and for kids who will buy into his program. I think Minnesota will be a dangerous team. We should want Minnesota to get good, it helps the B1G. Just good enough to lose to us every year. I wish him success except when he plays the Cats.

I am sure PJ is a quality man (outside of football and with his players). But please let me villain-ize coaches from teams that win against us. I have traumatic REM sleep at times during my nightmares where I see PJ climbing the posts at Ryan field telling his team that they just beat a 10 win team in the Big Ten and claiming that they were "purple people eaters." This actually happened after the game- I saw it on television because I couldn't go to the game due to a previous family engagement. I cannot pretend to like a coach like PJ after what I have seen him do. I don't like Brian Kelly either- but we beat him. So I don't talk about it that much anymore.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Just for the record, WMU's recruiting classes while PJ was their coach were each rated higher than NU's. In athletic talent, that is. The only problem was that PJ offered rapists and other criminals to play for him. NU didn't. Look it up in the papers if necessary. I anticipate that PJ will do the same at Minnesota. Take him for what he is worth, Gophers. Maybe the players guilty of sexual assault (this was in the news last season just for the record) still on Minnesota's roster will feel right at home with a coach like PJ.

If Western Michigan's recruiting classes were more highly rated than NU's, then that's a testament to PJ's ability to recruit (criminals and rapists notwithstanding - I have never heard that so I'm assuming it's a function of your PJ hate and not reality), and indicate that we are sorely underperforming in that area. A MAC team should NEVER outrecruit a B1G team. None of those players, or almost none of them, would have spurned NU offers for WMU.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

If Western Michigan's recruiting classes were more highly rated than NU's, then that's a testament to PJ's ability to recruit (criminals and rapists notwithstanding - I have never heard that so I'm assuming it's a function of your PJ hate and not reality), and indicate that we are sorely underperforming in that area. A MAC team should NEVER outrecruit a B1G team. None of those players, or almost none of them, would have spurned NU offers for WMU.

You sure about that criminals comment?

http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2016/08/key_members_from_western_michi.html

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

How about this beauty? Of course it was the one time he made a mistake! Look at the allegations against this kid. I find it nearly impossible to not have known about this guys character. All he had to do is ask.

http://www.twincities.com/2017/01/0...ad-player-with-multiple-assaults-at-last-job/

You want more?

 

[GlideCat]

Dunno why the hate.

Sounds like what Gary Barnett did for us.

But High Hopes is a better song than Row, Row, Row The Boat

 

[SciCat_rivals]

How about this beauty? Of course it was the one time he made a mistake! Look at the allegations against this kid. I find it nearly impossible to not have known about this guys character. All he had to do is ask.

http://www.twincities.com/2017/01/0...ad-player-with-multiple-assaults-at-last-job/

You want more?

Must....win....at....all.....costs.............must win.......at......all.........costs.......

 

[Gocatsgo2003]

If Western Michigan's recruiting classes were more highly rated than NU's, then that's a testament to PJ's ability to recruit (criminals and rapists notwithstanding - I have never heard that so I'm assuming it's a function of your PJ hate and not reality), and indicate that we are sorely underperforming in that area. A MAC team should NEVER outrecruit a B1G team. None of those players, or almost none of them, would have spurned NU offers for WMU.

Recruiting rankings aren't proof of a coach's ability to recruit. Having good players is.

 

[willycat]

You sure about that criminals comment?

http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2016/08/key_members_from_western_michi.html

That was quite a list. Also seem to remember that there was something to do with some shenanigans with a coed. Think he was married at the time and is now re-married, correct?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

That was quite a list. Also seem to remember that there was something to do with some shenanigans with a coed. Think he was married at the time and is now re-married, correct?

I am not sure his second wife was a co-ed or not. His divorce is not the reason I think he is a jag bag. He gives plenty of other reasons.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Recruiting rankings aren't proof of a coach's ability to recruit. Having good players is.

Nice strawman. Of course, having good players is. Though good players are so a function of coaching and development. Recruiting rankings are a factor. They are an indicator of the strength of talent in the class. They may not be fully accurate, but they are directionally correct and indicative over meaningful samples. For anyone to suggest otherwise is just denying the hard proven statistics.

You know what else is proof of recruiting? On the field success. Championships. How many championships have Walker and Fitzgerald dominated recruiting classes won? How many did Barnett's win? How many of our championship teams were populated at the core by top 30 recruiting classes?

 

[EvanstonCat]

You sure about that criminals comment?

http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2016/08/key_members_from_western_michi.html

I was not aware.

My opinion of Fleck did go a bit south just now.

 

[Gocatsgo2003]

Nice strawman. Of course, having good players is. Though good players are so a function of coaching and development. Recruiting rankings are a factor. They are an indicator of the strength of talent in the class. They may not be fully accurate, but they are directionally correct and indicative over meaningful samples. For anyone to suggest otherwise is just denying the hard proven statistics.

You know what else is proof of recruiting? On the field success. Championships. How many championships have Walker and Fitzgerald dominated recruiting classes won? How many did Barnett's win? How many of our championship teams were populated at the core by top 30 recruiting classes?

"Having good players" is the entire point of recruiting, not a straw man.

 

[EvanstonCat]

"Having good players" is the entire point of recruiting, not a straw man.

It's a strawman when you put up a statement as an argument that no one is disputing for the sake of trying to shift the debate to one that doesn't exist but is easier for you to win.

 

[DkeCat]

How about this beauty? Of course it was the one time he made a mistake! Look at the allegations against this kid. I find it nearly impossible to not have known about this guys character. All he had to do is ask.

http://www.twincities.com/2017/01/0...ad-player-with-multiple-assaults-at-last-job/

You want more?

Your article tells us he had two players commit a crime and get kicked off the team. Wow, what a horrible guy. Clearly no control over his program. BTW - Coach Fitz says hi.

Or maybe you are upset that he admitted he made a mistake and took responsibility with not checking the background of a walk-on? Because I'm sure that kid was so integral to the success of the team PJ let all the assaults slide so he can ride the bench for four years.

I get you don't like his personality. Everything else is just trying too hard to fit a narrative.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Your article tells us he had two players commit a crime and get kicked off the team. Wow, what a horrible guy. Clearly no control over his program. BTW - Coach Fitz says hi.

Or maybe you are upset that he admitted he made a mistake and took responsibility with not checking the background of a walk-on? Because I'm sure that kid was so integral to the success of the team PJ let all the assaults slide so he can ride the bench for four years.

I get you don't like his personality. Everything else is just trying too hard to fit a narrative.

So you think he did an acceptable background check on a potential player that had a LONG history of alledged sexual assault during his high school career? Maybe, but even minimal due diligence uncovers this. BTW almost certain he was not a Walk on. Sometimes, just don't ask questions if you are afraid of the answers! Much easier to say you made a sloppy mistakes rather than knowingly took someone into your program that clearly was a bad actor.

You are right, I don't like his personality. It comes off to me as extremely self serving. You have had a different experience. Great.

 

[DkeCat]

So you think he did an acceptable background check on a potential player that had a LONG history of alledged sexual assault during his high school career? Maybe, but even minimal due diligence uncovers this. BTW almost certain he was not a Walk on. Sometimes, just don't ask questions if you are afraid of the answers! Much easier to say you made a sloppy mistakes rather than knowingly took someone into your program that clearly was a bad actor.

You are right, I don't like his personality. It comes off to me as extremely self serving. You have had a different experience. Great.

Nice try.

He made a mistake (as a 33 year old first-time HC). He owned up to it and fixed it.

If you think any HC would knowingly take a guy with his history, particularly a frickin walk-on, just don't know what to say to you.

And yes, you don't like his personality based on some interviews and TV appearances, and decide to label him accordingly. You may want to listen to the people that know him, the parents of recruits, the players than played for him - they can give you a much more informed take.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Nice try.

He made a mistake (as a 33 year old first-time HC). He owned up to it and fixed it.

If you think any HC would knowingly take a guy with his history, particularly a frickin walk-on, just don't know what to say to you.

And yes, you don't like his personality based on some interviews and TV appearances, and decide to label him accordingly. You may want to listen to the people that know him, the parents of recruits, the players than played for him - they can give you a much more informed take.

I get it you have personal experience with him, I don't. Yes, I label him by what I see and what I think are his actions based on what I read, but thanks for your advice. Call it uniformed, whatever.

Yes, I have heard the glowing things his players say. I have also heard some not so glowing things some on the inside have said. I have never once posted them here as I have no idea of the accuracy of those statements.

What I do know he has had guys on his team and guys he recruited at WMU that have been arrested for sexual assault and others for armed robbery. That's a fact! Doesn't mean it can't happen at other places even NU. If "hello Fitz" comment means he has had anywhere near these problems, I don't what to tell you. You call these things first time HC issues, I call them inadequate background checking. I am sure the victims aren't so understanding of a rookie mistake.

Yes, he has personality traits from the outside I don't like, including how he exited from WMU. I won't waste my time listing them, because they are just my outside perception based on what I see. If his players don't like him, he is in the wrong job!

I think he is a jerk, you know him and think he's a great guy, how about we leave it that and move on?

 

[DkeCat]

I get it you have personal experience with him, I don't. Yes, I label him by what I see and what I think are his actions based on what I read, but thanks for your advice. Call it uniformed, whatever.

Yes, I have heard the glowing things his players say. I have also heard some not so glowing things some on the inside have said. I have never once posted them here as I have no idea of the accuracy of those statements.

What I do know he has had guys on his team and guys he recruited at WMU that have been arrested for sexual assault and others for armed robbery. That's a fact! Doesn't mean it can't happen at other places even NU. If "hello Fitz" comment means he has had anywhere near these problems, I don't what to tell you. You call these things first time HC issues, I call them inadequate background checking. I am sure the victims aren't so understanding of a rookie mistake.

Yes, he has personality traits from the outside I don't like, including how he exited from WMU. I won't waste my time listing them, because they are just my outside perception based on what I see. If his players don't like him, he is in the wrong job!

I think he is a jerk, you know him and think he's a great guy, how about we leave it that and move on?

Has nothing to do with if I know him or not. You are saying he willingly looked the other way to bring in a walkon with a long rap sheet. That is just not correct (though you may be backtracking by calling it inadequate background checking, if so I wholeheartedly agree).

You are saying there are guys arrested for sexual assault and others for robbery. You are, in fact, you are referring to the same person, who did both.

And don't forget - walkons have to go through regular admissions. PJ didn't let him into the school. WMU admissions did. If you really want to bring the victims of sexual assault into this discussion to prove a point, think they aren't so understanding of a lot of things in this situation, not just PJ letting him play football.

 

[PogeyKahn]

Just for the record, WMU's recruiting classes while PJ was their coach were each rated higher than NU's. In athletic talent, that is. The only problem was that PJ offered rapists and other criminals to play for him. NU didn't. Look it up in the papers if necessary. I anticipate that PJ will do the same at Minnesota. Take him for what he is worth, Gophers. Maybe the players guilty of sexual assault (this was in the news last season just for the record) still on Minnesota's roster will feel right at home with a coach like PJ.

"Just for the record" In the interest of not spreading untrue statements about the Minnesota Players, you probably should have paid more to the "news" last season. No Minnesota player was ever charged with sexual assault last year, and certainly none were found guilty. Five of the Ten implicated in the biased, crooked internal Title IX, Kangaroo Court "trial" were cleared on appeal and the evidence against the other five was non-existent, but when the fake prosecutor is the fake judge, what do you expect? Certainly not justice, but Trump will fix this title IX abuse very soon.

 

[julescat]

"Just for the record" In the interest of not spreading untrue statements about the Minnesota Players, you probably should have paid more to the "news" last season. No Minnesota player was ever charged with sexual assault last year, and certainly none were found guilty. Five of the Ten implicated in the biased, crooked internal Title IX, Kangaroo Court "trial" were cleared on appeal and the evidence against the other five was non-existent, but when the fake prosecutor is the fake judge, what do you expect? Certainly not justice, but Trump will fix this title IX abuse very soon.

You and your kind are scum.

 

[thewildcat2011]

"Just for the record" In the interest of not spreading untrue statements about the Minnesota Players, you probably should have paid more to the "news" last season. No Minnesota player was ever charged with sexual assault last year, and certainly none were found guilty. Five of the Ten implicated in the biased, crooked internal Title IX, Kangaroo Court "trial" were cleared on appeal and the evidence against the other five was non-existent, but when the fake prosecutor is the fake judge, what do you expect? Certainly not justice, but Trump will fix this title IX abuse very soon.

Thanks for the input, snowflake.

 

[Gladeskat]

"Just for the record" In the interest of not spreading untrue statements about the Minnesota Players, you probably should have paid more to the "news" last season. No Minnesota player was ever charged with sexual assault last year, and certainly none were found guilty. Five of the Ten implicated in the biased, crooked internal Title IX, Kangaroo Court "trial" were cleared on appeal and the evidence against the other five was non-existent, but when the fake prosecutor is the fake judge, what do you expect? Certainly not justice, but Trump will fix this title IX abuse very soon.

I'm just glad I don't root for Minnesota. The program has a history of academic and moral failure that apparently their fans defend.

 

[DaCat]

"Just for the record" In the interest of not spreading untrue statements about the Minnesota Players, you probably should have paid more to the "news" last season. No Minnesota player was ever charged with sexual assault last year, and certainly none were found guilty. Five of the Ten implicated in the biased, crooked internal Title IX, Kangaroo Court "trial" were cleared on appeal and the evidence against the other five was non-existent, but when the fake prosecutor is the fake judge, what do you expect? Certainly not justice, but Trump will fix this title IX abuse very soon.

Wow. You just did a victory dance because a bunch of football players from a team that you like got away with gang rape. Why don't you just row out of here. While Minnesota fans might be just fine with it, we don't accept that kind of behavior.

 

[Windy City Cat Fan]

My favorite quote from the piece, Fleck giving a pep talk to his team; "you guys are Trail Blazers, do you know what that means? It means you blaze trails!"