Plainfield North @ Fenwick

[RichieRebel]

I feel bad for all the parties involved!
IHSA is in a no win situation!
Should they consider the facts and attempt to come up with a compromise?
What compromise is out there that all the parties could agree on???
????????????????
Any ideas or suggestions????

 

[ignazio]

Fenwick vs ESL/PN winner .

 

[CGsupporter]

Fenwick vs ESL/PN winner .

That would be unfair to ESL.

 

[LHSTigers94]

Fenwick vs ESL/PN winner .

This doesn't make sense. If Fenwick and PN want to replay the game Monday, ESL will wait to play the winner on Saturday at 4pm.

 

[linetogain]

I truly can't believe the IHSA is missing a opportunity to "do the right thing" for the kids at Fenwick, the kids at ESL and take some of the grief off the officials in the long run. I would think the folks at PN should get a call from the IHSA and at least try and "get it right" for all involved.

Let's face it ESL wants to play the winner of the the 7A semi.. It's there Championship game too and they deserve a undisputed opportunity to be crowned Champions!

 

[Quags22]

Couple of observations from a guy who was not there:

There are always "extra" officials walking around the sidelines at these games. They are there to grade and critique the game officials. Great idea, but couldn't some of these guys have chimed in, especially when the wrong call was made?

The bylaws that the IHSA have in place won't allow them to change the final score. Not sure when this bylaw went into effect, but there is precedent to change the final score. There was a scoring error in a wrestling regional in 2008, that the IHSA overturned. http://www.granitecity.com/article/6656 . I also remember a basketball playoff game that had a scoring error that was changed.

Nobody got a rule book around? When I coached youth football, I always had one in my bag.

Why not just take the safety. Easily, the best play to take.

 

[flyerforlife]

To elaborate on what quags said it's a mutual point now but why not run around in end zone then drop to one and take a safety.

 

[jcal67]

I feel bad for all the parties involved!
IHSA is in a no win situation!
Should they consider the facts and attempt to come up with a compromise?
What compromise is out there that all the parties could agree on???
????????????????
Any ideas or suggestions????

IHSA can simply correct this.....they will not violate the bylaws if they say..... "Fenwick is the winner of the game as it was complete with 0 seconds on clock. At that time, the officials job of refereeing the game was complete...so their later determination to allow another play was without substance and not even real.

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

IHSA can simply correct this.....they will not violate the bylaws if they say..... "Fenwick is the winner of the game as it was complete with 0 seconds on clock. At that time, the officials job of refereeing the game was complete...so their later determination to allow another play was without substance and not even real.

But they have already said they won't. And it will violate the by law of all officials calls being final.

 

[Catch--22]

Quags, maybe they are drawing the line between scoring error and referee decision. Usually the scorer is not an assigned IHSA official.

I never thought for a moment that the IHSA would overturn this. That's a can of worms that should stay closed in my opinion.

I'm a basketball and lacrosse ref. I don't carry a rule book. I also wouldn't appreciate a ref in the stands "helping" me either, unless I called upon him or her to do so.

I would bet this crew loses their assignment next weekend. People are dropping hints here about who these guys are and which games they've worked. Any semblance of anonymity they have will probably disappear after the CN100 broadcast later today. Even if the assignment isn't taken away due to their error, there are people talking about witch hunts... Best course of action is to keep them away from Champaign.

Fenwick vs. Palatine? C'mon... what purpose does that serve? That would be the ultimate "Everybody Gets a Trophy Bowl". Fenwick got royally screwed, but they'll deal with it and get over it. Keller and others will be playing hoops or wrestling in the next couple days. This will feel like ancient history before the turkeys are carved.... except for here of course. I'm sure Fenwick/PFN will be alive and well here in Edgyland for a long long time.

 

[Gaelman]

To elaborate on what quags said it's a mutual point now but why not run around in end zone then drop to one and take a safety.

Precisely. But because the Fenwick coach obviously knew the rule he believed that wasn't necessary.
His mistakes were 1) trusting the officials to know the rule and 2) allowing his kids to go back on the field after time had expired.
Had he just said " we're done here we won the game" the officials and the IHSA would have been on the spot.
Can someone please tell me why for such an important game, the IHSA showcase tournament, there wasn't someone somewhere the refs could call to get a definitive ruling before the whole thing became such a debacle?
There will always be an asterisk next to Plainfield North---win or lose.
Shameful .

 

[jcal67]

But they have already said they won't. And it will violate the by law of all officials calls being final.

You obviously are not following what I said.....THE IHSA IS NOT VIOLATING THEIR BYLAWS OF OVERTURNING AN OFFICIALS GAME TIME RULING. THE GAME WAS OVER AT ZERO ON THE CLOCK IN REGULATION. THEREFORE EVERYTHING THAT OCCURRED AFTER THAT WAS MOOT

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

You obviously are not following what I said.....THE IHSA IS NOT VIOLATING THEIR BYLAWS OF OVERTURNING AN OFFICIALS GAME TIME RULING. THE GAME WAS OVER AT ZERO ON THE CLOCK IN REGULATION. THEREFORE EVERYTHING THAT OCCURRED AFTER THAT WAS MOOT

One of their by laws states they will not over turn an officials call. A ruling and call are the same thing. The IHSA has already ruled. Yell, stomp, scream - get mad at me, do whatever you have to it isn't changing now, tomorrow or by next Saturday.

 

[jcal67]

One of their by laws states they will not over turn an officials call. A ruling and call are the same thing. The IHSA has already ruled. Yell, stomp, scream - get mad at me, do whatever you have to it isn't changing now, tomorrow or by next Saturday.

CAN ONE OF THOSE OFFICIALS MAKE A CALL ON LAST NIGHTS GAME RIGHT NOW????? No!!! Everyone would have to agree that that would be absurd because the game was over. The IHSA admitted the game should have been over.....therefore anything that occurred after 0 seconds on clock in regulation was moot. There were no officials decisions after zero seconds to overturn because there was no game to officiate at that time. It was over. You seem to be a PN guy. I understand you want to see it stand....but it is lame and can be fixed easily with no egg on their faces.

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

I have no dog in the fight, I have no reason to want to see either team win. PN is a great story, Coach Nudo a good friend. All I am saying is what the IHSA has already stated. They ruled it wont be changed and that's it.

 

[Cross Bones]

No amount of temper tantrum will change the outcome.

 

[jcal67]

I have no dog in the fight, I have no reason to want to see either team win. PN is a great story, Coach Nudo a good friend. All I am saying is what the IHSA has already stated. They ruled it wont be changed and that's it.

There is no time limit on them making another determination. They could issue another statement.

 

[jcal67]

There is no time limit on them making another determination. They could issue another statement.

I am relaxing in a chair typing on a computer. No temper tantrum

 

[daveje]

I never thought for a moment that the IHSA would overturn this. That's a can of worms that should stay closed in my opinion.

I just don't understand why this can of worms must stay closed. This is a very specific case where a misapplication of the rules, not a judgement call, extended the game and altered the outcome. I totally agree that if a guy blew a holding or PI call, that's frustrating but not something that should be subject to a postgame revision. But, this is different. They didn't know the rules and they changed the game. And, don't tell me that Fenwick should have scored more to protect themselves against this incompetence. That's BS. They did exactly what they needed to do to win the game. The fact that they are being punished because a bunch of adults were incompetent and lack the courage to open this can of worms is nonsense.

 

[PowerI66_]

I am relaxing in a chair typing on a computer. No temper tantrum

your diction with the all caps is why people think you are yelling. Take the CAPS lock off

 

[flyerforlife]

Here''s what I think will happen. Since there is so much commotion on this PN will petition the IHSA to have Fenwick declared the winner. The IHSA will deny the petion and say we already ruled. IN other words they will clear PN and let everything fall back on them. they are big boys they can handle it. JMO

 

[Teetime_rivals219212]

I just don't understand why this can of worms must stay closed. This is a very specific case where a misapplication of the rules, not a judgement call, extended the game and altered the outcome. I totally agree that if a guy blew a holding or PI call, that's frustrating but not something that should be subject to a postgame revision. But, this is different. They didn't know the rules and they changed the game. And, don't tell me that Fenwick should have scored more to protect themselves against this incompetence. That's BS. They did exactly what they needed to do to win the game. The fact that they are being punished because a bunch of adults were incompetent and lack the courage to open this can of worms is nonsense.

Correct.

 

[Cross Bones]

I just don't understand why this can of worms must stay closed. This is a very specific case where a misapplication of the rules, not a judgement call, extended the game and altered the outcome. I totally agree that if a guy blew a holding or PI call, that's frustrating but not something that should be subject to a postgame revision. But, this is different. They didn't know the rules and they changed the game. And, don't tell me that Fenwick should have scored more to protect themselves against this incompetence. That's BS. They did exactly what they needed to do to win the game. The fact that they are being punished because a bunch of adults were incompetent and lack the courage to open this can of worms is nonsense.

Because youre trying to draw a line where there is none. The refs made a call in the course of the game and that call stands. The reason you want to draw the line where you do is because that would get YOUR desired outcome. Well there are people other than you with different gripes who would want to put that line elsewhere to get their desired outcome.

Thats why the call stands. Its a can o worms that need not be opened.

 

[daveje]

Because youre trying to draw a line where there is none. The refs made a call in the course of the game and that call stands. The reason you want to draw the line where you do is because that would get YOUR desired outcome. Well there are people other than you with different gripes who would want to put that line elsewhere to get their desired outcome.

Thats why the call stands. Its a can o worms that need not be opened.

So, if they awarded PN only 2 points when they kicked the field goal and declared Fenwick the winner 10-9, you'd say that was a tough break but mistakes happen?

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

So, if they awarded PN only 2 points when they kicked the field goal and declared Fenwick the winner 10-9, you'd say that was a tough break but mistakes happen?

Wait what? So if my grandmother had balls would that make her my grandfather too ?

 

[daveje]

The point is that the call wasn't wrong but the result and steps taken after the call were wrong. I don't think its any different than if they got a made FG call correct but gave the wrong number of points. If somehow that was missed in the moment, I guarantee you that would be fixed after the fact. Why not fix this especially since fixing gives a definitive and correct result?

 

[Wassup13_rivals219252]

Nothing can be done now....

The only thing PN and Fenwick can do now is schedule each other for an early non-conference game for next year! Everyone will want to be there.

If the schedule is already filled then their opponents can play each other.

We need to take care of business and straighten things out and get this thing scheduled right now!

 

[jwarigaku]

Only if she had facial hair and her name was Caitlyn.

Wait what? So if my grandmother had balls would that make her my grandfather too ?

 

[dcaudle68]

How can IHSA play any of those "do the right thing" commercials they have flooded us with the past 5 years during championship games?

 

[HHSTigerFan]

Nothing can be done now....

The only thing PN and Fenwick can do now is schedule each other for an early non-conference game for next year! Everyone will want to be there.

If the schedule is already filled then their opponents can play each other.

We need to take care of business and straighten things out and get this thing scheduled right now!

Same officials too!

 

[daveje]

How can IHSA play any of those "do the right thing" commercials they have flooded us with the past 5 years during championship games?

For generations, adults have been telling kids "do as I say, not as I do."

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

Only if she had facial hair and her name was Caitlyn.

Oh you had to go there

 

[jwarigaku]

LCN,

It's laugh about it with awkwardness or head to the Crying Room. Ouch just realized the crying room cuts both ways here. Oops went there twice.

Oh you had to go there

 

[RockSoup]

Because youre trying to draw a line where there is none. The refs made a call in the course of the game and that call stands. The reason you want to draw the line where you do is because that would get YOUR desired outcome. Well there are people other than you with different gripes who would want to put that line elsewhere to get their desired outcome.

Thats why the call stands. Its a can o worms that need not be opened.

But it was not a call during the 'course of the game'. It was an intentional grounding call which BY RULE officially ends the game.

 

[jwarigaku]

Rock,

I suppose that there could be an injunction placed on next weeks game. I'm sure there are a few attorneys in the Friar faithful ready to do some pro bona work!

But it was not a call during the 'course of the game'. It was an intentional grounding call which BY RULE officially ends the game.

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

Rock,

I suppose that there could be an injunction placed on next weeks game. I'm sure there are a few attorneys in the Friar faithful ready to do some pro bona work!

Really we are gonna go there now? Wow

 

[jwarigaku]

LCN,

You know I'm not a Fenwick guy, but in today's world would it surprise you?

Really we are gonna go there now? Wow

 

[RockSoup]

Really we are gonna go there now? Wow

That's the post that makes you go 'Wow'? I took it as Jwar being slightly tongue in cheek knowing it couldn't or wouldn't go there. My only Wow in this fiasco is the statement by the IHSA knowing full well that anything that happened after the referee announced intentional grounding cannot exist per their rule book. That's all that had to be said.

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

LCN,

You know I'm not a Fenwick guy, but in today's world would it surprise you?[/QUOT

No it wouldn't at all.

I'm all for what right and reversing the call clearly would be the right thing to do.

It's not going to happen. When your a private association like the IHSA and you have by laws like this that are legal tender, they HS e that to fall back on. It's wrong and it sucks.

But it isn't changing now or anytime soon. If it ever did, every close play or misinterpreted call would land on their door step. We are talking hundreds a week.

I want to see Fenwick as the winner as they should be. But it isn't changing,

 

[jwarigaku]

Rock,

Honestly it was not tongue in cheek. I also don't see your point as to why it couldn't happen. The ruling was made outside the conclusion of the game and could be argued and ruled outside the referees perview of the game. In today's litigious society I almost expect to see a case filed on Monday.

That's the post that makes you go 'Wow'? I took it as Jwar being slightly tongue in cheek knowing it couldn't or wouldn't go there. My only Wow in this fiasco is the statement by the IHSA knowing full well that anything that happened after the referee announced intentional grounding cannot exist per their rule book. That's all that had to be said.