Players Not Collins Lost That One
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Yep. Nance is our best player. We are better with him. But I think he cost us this one tonight. Too many errors in key possessions and missed free throws.
It’s too bad. You can see how hard he works and cares, but I don’t think he has that clutch gene.
I saw your comments on progression. There was for the year prior to and the NCAA year. Otherwise, we are probably in a worse location within the league than before CC arrived. There is not a McIntosh, Law, Demps, Crawford, Shurna, Coble, Juice Thompson, Reggie Hearn or Craig Moore on this team. In other words, there is not a single go to player to will this team to a win or night in night out will take and more often than not, make the tough shot. None of the aforementioned players had those skills/traits when they entered (Juice and McIntosh had it to some extent), but they developed that instinct or toughness over their years. In other words, they progressed. You write about the ballyhooed recruiting which shows progression to be a "go to" guy at the end of the game. Please tell me which player is that guy? It has not occurred. Thus, you may have progression in recruiting, but you have no progression in player development which entails both skills and toughness. It's just not there. All the close losses are prime exhibits of the lack of progression within the program. The won loss records is a very objective standard. Again, there is no progression. I hope at the end of year I am eating crow, but we can lead you to water, but if you refuse to drink, there is nothing we can do to remedy your confusion. You can't look and not see.
I will just say this: The men’s basketball team is competitive night in and night out. That’s a breath of fresh air after this past football season. And, if we’re honest with ourselves, some of NU’s very best football seasons under Fitz could very well have been mediocre if a few things hadn’t gone NU’s way.
You can chalk that up to Fitz being a better coach if you want. Or maybe the football team has a few more big-time players.
But in either sport, NU is rarely going to defeat Big Ten teams solely because we are more talented. We will, for better or worse, almost always be in a lot of close calls.
Yes, CCC and the players have to find a way to win a greater share of these close games. But it’s a very good sign that they are close. This is a roster that can compete with just about anyone in the conference. That’s a far cry from the rebuilding years since BMac/Lindsey/Law.
We are getting there.
You can chalk that up to Fitz being a better coach if you want. Or maybe the football team has a few more big-time players.
But in either sport, NU is rarely going to defeat Big Ten teams solely because we are more talented. We will, for better or worse, almost always be in a lot of close calls.
Yes, CCC and the players have to find a way to win a greater share of these close games. But it’s a very good sign that they are close. This is a roster that can compete with just about anyone in the conference. That’s a far cry from the rebuilding years since BMac/Lindsey/Law.
We are getting there.
The Big 10 is a different level now. Those old carmody teams would get hammered in the current league. Apples and oranges comparison
This is not true. Regular season conference champs have received automatic NIT invites since the NCAA took over the NIT in 2006. All four Carmody NIT teams qualified under those rules.
I really like this. Like, I don’t like like this, but I think it makes the point effectively.
If you can’t compare two NU basketball coaches conference records, then you can’t compare anything. Is Collins a better coach than Carmody? Who knows! Apples and oranges! Anything is possible! Maybe Collins is the best coach in the country and we just don’t know it. After all, we can’t compare him against anything to know for sure.
The fact is that some guys finish games with authority and some guys finish games in fear.
Coaches are the same way.
Michigan had no size behind Hunter Dickinson and he was in foul trouble much of the game and ultimately fouled out. We didn't try to take advantage of his absence at any point by going big.
With 5 minutes left, trailing 62-55, Michigan called time out. Dickinson came back in the game with 4 fouls. Collins immediately brought in Elyjah Williams to guard Dickinson. Not Young. Not Nicholson. Elyjah Williams. 1:37 later the game was tied at 62.
Sensing trouble, Collins took Nance out and brought in Young. Williams stayed in the game (WHY?).
Young immediately got the 5th foul on Dickinson and made 2 free throws. Cats up 64-62.
Collins IMMEDIATELY took Young and Williams out, bringing back Beran and Nance. (WHY?)
Michigan then hit a three over a wandering Robbie Beran to re-claim the lead.
Collins has a knack for putting the team in a position to lose. Then some of our guys make that happen.
Coaches are the same way.
Michigan had no size behind Hunter Dickinson and he was in foul trouble much of the game and ultimately fouled out. We didn't try to take advantage of his absence at any point by going big.
With 5 minutes left, trailing 62-55, Michigan called time out. Dickinson came back in the game with 4 fouls. Collins immediately brought in Elyjah Williams to guard Dickinson. Not Young. Not Nicholson. Elyjah Williams. 1:37 later the game was tied at 62.
Sensing trouble, Collins took Nance out and brought in Young. Williams stayed in the game (WHY?).
Young immediately got the 5th foul on Dickinson and made 2 free throws. Cats up 64-62.
Collins IMMEDIATELY took Young and Williams out, bringing back Beran and Nance. (WHY?)
Michigan then hit a three over a wandering Robbie Beran to re-claim the lead.
Collins has a knack for putting the team in a position to lose. Then some of our guys make that happen.
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Since a lot of folks love to do “I told you so’s” and Pat themselves on the back when something remotely goes as predicted, I am going to follow suit.
I have been preaching that lack of an Alpha player since this group arrived. Absolutely, no one has shown the desire to be that guy. Pete is a nice player, seems to be a nice fellow, but man, he just can’t get it done in crunch time. He was put in positIon to do so multiple times. When you best player isn’t getting it done down the stretch , you are in trouble. Several teams have multiple guys ready, willing and able to take the big shot. Usually, an older guy has this role, but young guys can to. A lot is mindset/ attitude. Innate traits.
I have harped on the talent being in the lower end of the B1G. It’s comical that people think it is on par with most B1G teams. Yes, the depth is better, we actually have B1G ten players for the most part. However, NU’s best players are numbers 4-8 on a strong B1G team. See Kopp. See above about no Alpha. We get fooled because player A has a strong game when they are ignored and expect them to put up 25 every game and blame CCC to figure out how. Consistently is the hallmark of great players.
I got my *** handed to me with some suggesting my narrative was some kind of front or cover for why CCC is not to blame. Sorry, just called it like I see it, doesn’t mean I am right, but so far it has panned out to form. I got no issue blaming Coaches, see football comments, but it is a players game. CCC did not miss critical free throws, or turn the ball over.
I have been preaching that lack of an Alpha player since this group arrived. Absolutely, no one has shown the desire to be that guy. Pete is a nice player, seems to be a nice fellow, but man, he just can’t get it done in crunch time. He was put in positIon to do so multiple times. When you best player isn’t getting it done down the stretch , you are in trouble. Several teams have multiple guys ready, willing and able to take the big shot. Usually, an older guy has this role, but young guys can to. A lot is mindset/ attitude. Innate traits.
I have harped on the talent being in the lower end of the B1G. It’s comical that people think it is on par with most B1G teams. Yes, the depth is better, we actually have B1G ten players for the most part. However, NU’s best players are numbers 4-8 on a strong B1G team. See Kopp. See above about no Alpha. We get fooled because player A has a strong game when they are ignored and expect them to put up 25 every game and blame CCC to figure out how. Consistently is the hallmark of great players.
I got my *** handed to me with some suggesting my narrative was some kind of front or cover for why CCC is not to blame. Sorry, just called it like I see it, doesn’t mean I am right, but so far it has panned out to form. I got no issue blaming Coaches, see football comments, but it is a players game. CCC did not miss critical free throws, or turn the ball over.
Yes, this is terrible, but one caveat here - the average Big Ten AdjEM per Kenpom during the Carmody stretch was 12.75, while during this Collins stretch it is 16.31. The conference is significantly better now than it was then, though this is not to excuse our performance under Collins, we should be better.
In fairness, Carmody's non-conference scheduling was much more challenging during this stretch than Collins' has been. I don't care how hard the conference season is, you're doing your veteran team a disservice by serving up the least-challenging non-conference schedule of any major conference team in the past two seasons.
The administration was correct to try to move to the next level, and move on from Carmody. He had plateaued and stagnated. For a while, the experiment was wildly successful, and now it has failed by any and all objective standards. We are a worse program with no identity and no reason to believe things will change. Experiment over. Move on. I don't care if we return to a coach with a "gimmick" like the Princeton offense, just - any identity is better than being the Washington Generals.
I agree with this and I think this has been our big issue with this group of players. I will say though that Boo can be that guy. I feel he has made a big jump this year in making plays in late game situations. Obviously, it hasn't translated to wins, but he's a guy that is not afraid to be at the line or take a late shot. Doesn't mean he always makes them, but he's got some alpha in him. If you remember last year, there were a couple times where he was the guy missing the late FT's, but this year I feel he has gotten past that and hit some big shots. Even last night he came down the floor with under a minute left and hit a tough 3 pointer to cut the lead to 2.
But I agree with your overall point. Honestly, it's almost impossible to argue with. You look at the record in close games over the past four years and there's no plausible defense against the point that this group has not had that alpha/go to guy down the stretch in games. But I'd like to see Boo get more of a chance in those situations going forward.
This is just not true. Carmody has plateaued at 20 win seasons and NIT births. He had a solid athletic roster with Crawford, Hearn and Swopshire. All three got hurt and the AD saw it as his chance to make a mark on the program. It looked like it worked to - I called it the great experiment - but in year four it fell apart and it’s not been right since. The only reason Collins has a job is the ridiculous contract he was signed to off one season.
Ryan Young had 30 plus offers including Maryland. He’s what he should be. This was his game in high school. It’s not like Collins taught him to play this way.
No way in hell will Illinois fans constitute 80% of the fans. Not even 50%, maybe 30%.
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This is true. A competitive non-conference schedule will help a team prepare for a competitive Big Ten schedule. I don't see a realistic down side to this.
Yeah I just didn't want to start yet another BC/CCC food fight. I'd be perfectly happy with NIT berths every couple of years after these past few years.
Collins doesn't have it. He may have/did have it briefly, but lost it. Move on. Hire a successful G5 coach, give them 4 years to turn it around, if not, fire them, move on. This is not 1990 Northwestern. We have plenty of money, facilities, have proven that we can compete for most of this century. Collins is lost. Try something else, if for no other reason than some of us have fewer and fewer years to follow Cats' athletics. I don't want to waste another 3 years watching same old same old.
The talent had declined and the window was missed. Hearn was a walk-on and Swopshire was a one-year player.
Of course, we knew it was headed that way when he was given a two-year extension — that’s how you get a Taphorn-Lumpkin recruiting class. (Both were more productive than many many CCC recruits.)
I loved Carmody, but it was a good time to move on from him. And CCC was, ironically, Phil Jackson to Carmody’s Doug Collins… he got NU from point B to point C.
But it’s pretty clear that what’s here today isn’t the basis for a program that contends for tournaments. For all the alleged talent, CCC’s NU teams have only ever been in consideration for a tourney bid once — they year they made it. February basketball has been meaningless in every other season. February!
My one day in SLC was enough for me to realize that NITs are dumb and not an accomplishment — but, of course, we’re not even there anymore.
I just wish I could not care. But geez I still care. Ugh.
then look at conf victories. prior to the year he was fired, BC had 4 straight years of 7 or 8 conf victories. Last time that happened was never. I am not saying it was a mistake to fire BC, or a mistake to hire CCC, or even a mistake to give him an extension. But he's lost whatever mojo he had. Move on. He's lost it. Players, recruits, fans, opposing teams all know it. I don't believe he will ever recover. Too many losses on the court and in recruiting. Try something else.
I'm not arguing with you. So many aspects of their play make this plainly obvious. Unfortunately for all of us, the staff and the players, it's time.
I'd be a bit disappointed if Cragg wasn't quietly making phone calls already.
When it's been almost a decade and we're making desperate Carmody and NIT comparisons, that's the sure sign. Fire bomb the whole thing.
Pocatello. I broadcast Idaho State basketball— the only thing more depressing than NU
! But our women’s team is tremendous. 
Can you give me a soundbite that goes something like this...Pocatello. I broadcast Idaho State basketball— the only thing more depressing than NU
"Roper throws up a prayer... HORN SOUNDS.... Its GOOOOOD!!!!!! Wildcats WIN!!!!!!!"
I'm getting desperate.
Moved to Blackfoot 15 months ago and love it out here. Too far from family tho.Pocatello. I broadcast Idaho State basketball— the only thing more depressing than NU
I think there is only one Big Ten coach who would have led NU to a loss last night if he had had the reins.
(Hint - he was in Ann Arbor last night and he never played in the NBA)
Think about this end-of-year scenario...
Pete Nance gets his degree, decides he will transfer in hopes of an NBA opportunity, or plays in Europe.
Ryan Young, being a redshirt junior, completes his degree on time. He gets on with his life or transfers to pursue a grad degree.
Matt Nicholson, having been completely stiffed by his coach, transfers to a school like Saint Louis University to be an immediate contributor to his new team. SLU dominates the Atlantic 10 and goes to the NCAA tournament in Nicholson's first season.
Robbie Beran becomes a center.
damn admissions! How dare they drastically change them the instant CCC got us to the tourney. Willy, you can drumbeat all you want about admissions, but until you can demonstrate how these admissions policies caused a program that averaged 7 B1G wins a year for 9 years (2009-17) to suddenly fall of a cliff, I'm not listening. lalalalalalala not listening.
We used to suck, then we didn't , now we do. what changed? Admissions??
We have always sucked. You just got one year to forget about all of the other suckage.