Poll about Tiger and Nicklaus
- Thread starter ThePhoenix_rivals211191
- Start date
Nobody is arguing that anabolic steroids will help the average hacker "hole putts" or "get up and down." That's a simplistic, idiotic argument. It's like someone arguing that Bonds didn't use steroids because they won't make a schmuck struggling to hit .200 in A-ball turn into a Hall-of-Famer. No, but what they WILL do is take someone who already possesses world-class, once-in-a-generation hand-eye coordination and world-class, once-in-a-generation timing, and turn him into an HR hitting monster at age 35.
Do you think steroids won't increase length off the tee, thereby allowing someone to hit shorter irons/wedges into the green? Do you think that slight advantage wouldn't add up to a 2-3 stroke advantage over the course of four rounds? Do you think steroids don't improve stamina, especially over the course of a PGA season? Why do you think Clemens used 'roids? (hint: it wasn't to increase the speed of his fastball or so he could spot his curve better, it was so he would still have legs in September/October).
Face it, Tiger used 'roids because 'roids helped his overall game.
No, not really. Is he on steroids now, at age 42 & fresh off a touching Spinal Fusion when he's STILL as long/fast as anyone on Tour when he needs to be?
He's dominated every level (when healthy) since he was 5 years old. His amateur record is arguably the best of all time, something many people leave out when discussing "career". Winning 3 consecutive US Ams, which will never be done again...and he was longer compared to the field than he ever was on the PGA Tour. Was he on steroids then?
Also, which steroids did he use & when? Can't seem to find it online anywhere.
Discounting Tiger's career b/c of "steroids" is the dumbest angle ever.
He's dominated every level (when healthy) since he was 5 years old. His amateur record is arguably the best of all time, something many people leave out when discussing "career". Winning 3 consecutive US Ams, which will never be done again...and he was longer compared to the field than he ever was on the PGA Tour. Was he on steroids then?
Also, which steroids did he use & when? Can't seem to find it online anywhere.
Discounting Tiger's career b/c of "steroids" is the dumbest angle ever.
Maybe, or maybe HGH.
So because you couldn't find on Google any details proving Tiger used PEDs it means he didn't? [laughing] Likewise, because it can't be found online anywhere that Bonds was proven to have used PEDs, that means he didn't, right? Again, your "logic" is impeccable.
Look, I get that when someone makes an accusation the onus is on them to prove it (because the accusee can't prove a negative) but obviously absence of proof is not proof of absence.
I'm not "discounting" his career at all, but neither am I blindly worshipping at the "Tiger is all natural" altar either.
Again, do you think:
1. PEDs will increase driving length?
2. Increased driving length will give an advantage over four rounds?
3. PEDs will increase stamina, allow you to recover, etc...over the course of a grinding PGA season?
TIGeR HAS iT EASY TODAY LIKE ThlHE OTHER PLAYERS CAUSE HE HAS THOSE FAzNCY ScIENCE ALUMINUM CLUBBS AND SPYSCOPE **** THAT GARRENTIES A EAGLE ON EVERY WHOLE AND JETPOWDERED GOLFCART!!!!;!!
JACK NICKLES CAN ACE A PAR 6 WITH A UMBERELA !!!!&
JACK NICKLES CAN ACE A PAR 6 WITH A UMBERELA !!!!&
I'm not asking that.
I'll be more specific: What I'm asking is, based on your initial post (i.e. that some posters should start using PEDs because they'll "hole more putts" or "get up and down"), do you believe that steroids/HGH/PEDs have the potential to help a world-class golfer's game, based on just the few examples (e.g. increased length, improved stamina) that I listed. It's really a simple question.
I tend to agree. Jack has the records, Jack has the 18 majors.
Tiger is the greatest golfer to ever play, almost all peers will say this, even the guys who played with Jack secretly will say that Jack is the greatest due to Majors but some of his peers say Ben Hogan is greatest player they have ever played against. Hurt in car wreck, greatest ball striker.
I am a Jack fan but the fields were top heavy, did not have the Euro's competing much or Intl. except for Tony Jacklin and Gary Player. Jack's day, there were 20 guys who could win. Tiger's day, there were 100 guys who could win.
Jack did not have a very good short game in relation to his majors and skills, he was a great putter. Great Long iron player and driver of ball. Tiger was the best putter, best driver earlier in career, best long iron player and had the greatest short game of all time, Phil got the glory with his flop shots but Tiger was considered the greatest of all time.
I am a single handicap player so not throwing crap out there.
Tiger is the greatest player of all time, Jack is the greatest due to majors, I mean his finishing second is astonishing.
[laughing] but of course that’s the only thing you can say when your argument against Tiger using them is that PEDs won’t magically allow hackers to make more putts. Apparently the PGA disagrees with you though, or else they wouldn’t have started drug testing.
Not really following your point. He hit one of the most unbelievable shots that Jack has ever seen and that translates into he hits shots Jack can only dream of. That's a pretty big stretch even for a fan boy.
K. Give your favorite marquee golfer PEDs for all of 2018/19, and his actual chances to win a major increase by 0%
Of course the PGA (and every other sports entity in the world) banned them...just as they've banned cocaine & marijuana -- wtf else are they supposed to do?
Of course the PGA (and every other sports entity in the world) banned them...just as they've banned cocaine & marijuana -- wtf else are they supposed to do?
[laughing]
HTF do I know which "marquee" PGA golfers are/aren't using PEDs? Furthermore, IDGAF. My point is simply that PED usage will (not "can" or "might") improve a golfer's game (and especially a world-class golfer's game) from simply an increased strength/increased stamina/recover-quickly-from-training standpoint alone. It's idiotic to claim otherwise (like you're doing). Now whether PEDs do help is a completely separate question from whether Tiger used them (I think he did, but obviously can't prove it).
But please continue disagreeing with the experts on human physiology/sports performance. It's quite entertaining watching a someone who fancies himself to be an intelligent poster continue to embarrass himself by being a moron.
Yea. That's a little silly. Nobody here saw Nicklaus in his prime. He was a beast when he was young.
Clearly, and that's great news for everyone in this thread. Hopefully you'll STFU about it now, b/c it's irrelevant to the original topic.
So was arguing Tiger didn't use PEDs because steroids don't help weekend hackers make more putts, but that didn't stop you from posting it.
Ok, but before that they were playing courses that were 6800-7000 yards. They never play a major shorter than 7500 nowadays some of them are 7800. There are courses that can be stretched to 8000 yards out there.
Good point that the vast majority in this thread have only watched tiger play. Golf is not like other sports to where players are bigger and stronger so they have clear physical advantages over their predecessors.
Golf is about swing mechanics that physicality can’t dominate, so you can’t automatically assume that today’s players are superior like you can in say basketball to where players were much shorter in the 50’s. Title count is the only true measure and until Tiger catches up then he is second.
Duke over UK all time then right? Because they won their titles in a more expansive and deeper field.
I actually do believe that whatever alleged PED's he took and his obsession with working out and looking more like a free safety than a golfer hurt him and his quest to eclipse Jack. That and other things, obviously.
Tiger had the highest peak but Jack had the longest, most consistent level of greatness. How you determine GOAT I guess is in what you value.
Are you a Barry Sanders or Emmitt Smith guy?
Just curious, but, if done properly, do you think PEDs can improve the performance of elite golfers?
[laughing] I'd rather be a psycho that a dumb-*** who thinks PEDs won't help golfers.
Honestly though, I realize you're just being stubborn. Nobody who follows sports can be stupid enough to have that take. However, if you are truly dumb enough to believe that PGA golfers wouldn't benefit from such basic things as increased stamina and decreased recovery time, then you're a bigger dolt than I originally thought.
I don't know, I do know that Tiger was a prodigy that had been crushing his competition since he learned how to walk. He was better when he looked like Steve Urkel than Steve Smith.
Better equipment in Tiger's day is a flawed argument because everyone has/had access to the same equipment regardless of how long the courses are.
Now, if he's out there hitting a driver with a metal head the size of a mailbox while everybody else on the course is using their grandpa's wooden driver from 1920, then you might have a point.
Now, if he's out there hitting a driver with a metal head the size of a mailbox while everybody else on the course is using their grandpa's wooden driver from 1920, then you might have a point.
You talked about how much farther newer clubs go. They have stretched out the courses to make up for that.
Yes, I did. I pointed out how the ball carries further and clubs are much easier to hit. But my point about golf courses was that in the 1990s and early 2000s, when the technology was exploding, golf courses hadn't lengthened their courses, and some of them were exploited by golfers playing technology that made the course design outdated. It's hard to compare scores from that era to scores on those before the technology explosion. Eventually, they did adapt to the length. I'm not sure they can really adapt to the fact that the new clubs are easier to hit.
In Jacks prime he used a 100 compression balata ball and a persimmon driver with steel shaft and the size of a modern day hybrid and could hit it 300 yards. Don’t think many of today’s players could do that and keep the ball on the course, even Tiger.
I wouldn't say that. I was in the golf professional business in the 90s (club side, not tour side), and I think it's a fair question.