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POLL: Is there a God ??

Is there a God ??

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HymanKaplan_rivals48997

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Catemus said:
I haven’t said what I think God is, but to accommodate you I’ll state that I think that God is a general concept of the human brain, devised to provide: A quick and easy explanation for the unknown; a maintenance of the social hierarchy that humans inherited during our evolution as intelligent social primates; a comfort to turn to when we experience trauma in our individual and community lives; and, most prominently, a justification for the actions we take regarding interactions between groups of humans and the use of resources in our environment.

We make war upon other groups in the “name of God,” whether defensively or, especially, offensively for a myriad of reasons; and we use the resources of our environment with an unchecked consumption because of the dominion over the world and all of its other species of life that was given to us by this being that resides only within our brains as a communal thought.
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Sorry. jumped the gun.

It serves me right. I don't even really want to get into the nature or form of God. My initial and only real point is that, "observably" it is just as, if not MORE plausible, at this point, that life in our physical universe had a jump start from an external force, which you could describe as God.

One thing though, that has always puzzled me, when it comes to atheists, is that inconsistencies, or perceived flaws in a religious God's will/judgement very often is cited as proof that the entire idea of a God is nonsense. Christopher Hitchens, for example, got a lot of mileage out that. (And this is not directed towards Catemus, it's just a general observation. )
 
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Beatle Bum

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By the way, if Catemus is correct, and I know people hate to hear this, nevertheless, all of the global warming crap is a bunch of meaningless doo doo. Your smallest parts will be just fine if this world burns. Placing value on unintended sophistication is as big of an illusion as Catemus believes God to be.
 
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SDC888

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Consciousness is not simply defined by materialistic reductionism explanations, merely an emergent property from our biology and neurology. You are given insight into this reality through your own experience. Say, you're sitting around on a Sunday afternoon and the thought of a friend you've not seen in years randomly pops in your head. The phone rings: it's him. You walk down the same alley on your way home from work, never think anything of it. One time, your gut tells y ou not too. You ignore your gut and do it anyway, only to be mugged by a drug addict. You have a feeling like you are being watched... you turn around and see someone you didn't know was there. Something like that. You think nothing of it, just chalk it up to coincidence.

To paraphrase Tesla (iirc), the day science begins to understand consciousness, it will uncover in a decade more than it ever did in centuries.
 
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Ron Mehico

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This is the pillars of creation. Within the cloud of gas stars are being formed (the red lights are stars being formed - stars the size of our sun). It’s 35 light years across, with the earth compromising not even 1 trillionth of the image in size. It’s something we are able to see from a telescope we made, which allows us to see maybe 1/1000th of the universe, if that
 
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SDC888

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And you really are profoundly misguided about the nature of the human condition if you think that if we just didn't believe in gods, there would be no war, or even less war.

There would be more war. Man will always find reasons to divide himself, to be angry self-righteous and tribalistic, and take that us vs them mentality as a justification for war. No, we live (post world war 2 era) in an uncharacteristically peaceful time of heretofore unimaginable comfort and awe from rapid technological advancement. Our bellies are full, and we are endlessly distracted with toys and pleasure. Life is on easy mode, so we have the luxury to impose our values on "god;" the hubris that we knwo better because we have subdued our environment. We "know" what should be.
 
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HymanKaplan_rivals48997

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If, upon reading a lot of this thread, one has to wonder if God is having second thoughts about the whole thing. LOL Buyer's remorse perhaps...

If he has peers, maybe they're like, "is this your doing? Who is responsible for this?" And God is like, "I have never seen this universe before, in my LIFE!" (then goes around wiping his finger prints off of everything, and deleting emails...)
 
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MidseasonTweak

MidseasonTweak

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To quote the great George Carlin,

"I've begun worshipping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It's there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, and a lovely day. There's no mystery, no one asks for money, I don't have to dress up, and there's no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to "God" are all answered at about the same 50% rate."
 
crashtestdummy_rivals61973

crashtestdummy_rivals61973

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Ron Mehico said:




This is the pillars of creation. Within the cloud of gas stars are being formed (the red lights are stars being formed - stars the size of our sun). It’s 35 light years across, with the earth compromising not even 1 trillionth of the image in size. It’s something we are able to see from a telescope we made, which allows us to see maybe 1/1000th of the universe, if that
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Shame we can't see a God with that telescope.
 
crashtestdummy_rivals61973

crashtestdummy_rivals61973

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Ron Mehico said:
Maybe that is our god? Maybe that cloud is where all life originates? Maybe it’s one of trillions? Maybe….
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Perhaps the definition of God needs to be established.

Possible that cloud is where life originates. There's already thousands of Gods worshiped here on earth, certainly possible the cloud is one of trillions in the universe. Unless the bible is wrong....it's not the God described in the bible.
 
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Ron Mehico

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crashtestdummy said:
Perhaps the definition of God needs to be established.

Possible that cloud is where life originates. There's already thousands of Gods worshiped here on earth, certainly possible the cloud is one of trillions in the universe. Unless the bible is wrong....it's not the God described in the bible.
Click to expand...


I guess we either currently pretty much know…..or we don’t
 
KenTucker

KenTucker

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Sorry. jumped the gun.

It serves me right. I don't even really want to get into the nature or form of God. My initial and only real point is that, "observably" it is just as, if not MORE plausible, at this point, that life in our physical universe had a jump start from an external force, which you could describe as God.

One thing though, that has always puzzled me, when it comes to atheists, is that inconsistencies, or perceived flaws in a religious God's will/judgement very often is cited as proof that the entire idea of a God is nonsense. Christopher Hitchens, for example, got a lot of mileage out that. (And this is not directed towards Catemus, it's just a general observation. )

life in our physical universe had a jump start from an external force, which you could describe as God.
Click to expand...
From a reductionist point of view - the idea that complicated behaviors and phenomena can be better explained by “reducing” them into small, simple pieces - an explanation for the physical origin of life is easy. It is the stage in chemical evolution at which the process becomes biological, or alive.

There are six main ingredients that make up 97% of every living creature: Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Phosphorus, and Sulfur. About 13 minor elements make up the remaining 3%.

So, we know what the ingredients are for constructing life but we don’t know the recipe. That’s much, much harder to figure out.

One thing though, that has always puzzled me, when it comes to atheists, is that inconsistencies, or perceived flaws in a religious God's will/judgement very often is cited as proof that the entire idea of a God is nonsense.
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Atheism is merely an absence of belief in the existence of deities. No proof is needed.
 
KenTucker

KenTucker

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Caveman Catfan said:
By the way, if Catemus is correct, and I know people hate to hear this, nevertheless, all of the global warming crap is a bunch of meaningless doo doo. Your smallest parts will be just fine if this world burns. Placing value on unintended sophistication is as big of an illusion as Catemus believes God to be.
Click to expand...
I don’t believe anything. Rather, I base my acceptance of circumstances upon observation.

That said, I can state that the concept of God is hardly an illusion. Based upon a lifetime of observing the human race, the God concept is very much a part of humanity. From making individual personal decisions to fomenting war between nations, the God concept is referenced by a huge number of people and carries a great weight in deciding actions towards other humans. That’s no illusion.

Additionally, from my own point of view, the God concept is not necessary for an individual to attach meaning to life. Nor is it required in the establishment of morals and mores.
 
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BMoore2

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WildcatfaninOhio said:
Actually, none of us are going to hell. None of us are going to heaven, either.
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You don’t know that, any more than anyone else does. Being an atheist does not avail you to some certainty none of us have-only an arrogance that is undeserved.
 
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Beatle Bum

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Catemus said:
I don’t believe anything. Rather, I base my acceptance of circumstances upon observation.

That said, I can state that the concept of God is hardly an illusion. Based upon a lifetime of observing the human race, the God concept is very much a part of humanity. From making individual personal decisions to fomenting war between nations, the God concept is referenced by a huge number of people and carries a great weight in deciding actions towards other humans. That’s no illusion.

Additionally, from my own point of view, the God concept is not necessary for an individual to attach meaning to life. Nor is it required in the establishment of morals and mores.
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The illusion comment was a reference to Freud, whose belief about theism you quoted.

Freud’s theory is equally applicable to liberal atheists who consider themselves simply another atomic combination, but then need to add value to their combination by pretending they are saving humanity, as if one combination of atoms and compounds holds more value than the same elements disassembled.
 
WildcatfaninOhio

WildcatfaninOhio

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BMoore2 said:
You don’t know that, any more than anyone else does. Being an atheist does not avail you to some certainty none of us have-only an arrogance that is undeserved.
Click to expand...

Hell is a made-up punishment, just as heaven is a made-up reward. Both payable after you’re dead, so there’s no way to actually know if they’re real.

PS - they’re not real
 
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KenTucker

KenTucker

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Caveman Catfan said:
The illusion comment was a reference to Freud, whose belief about theism you quoted.

Freud’s theory is equally applicable to liberal atheists who consider themselves simply another atomic combination, but then need to add value to their combination by pretending they are saving humanity, as if one combination of atoms and compounds holds more value than the same elements disassembled.
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Could it have been someone else who quoted Freud? I didn’t. I stated fairly clearly that I don’t think that God is an illusion at all. Rather, I think that the God concept manifests in the human brain.

ETA: However, after looking at it, I would say that I agree with the last part of his quote:

Religion is an illusion and it derives its strength from its readiness to fit in with our instinctual wishful impulses.
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We are a species that has largely escaped the constraints of natural evolution but a great majority of us still feel most comfortable living and functioning within a hierarchy headed by a single “great leader” who gives peace to those who obey and punishes those who stray out of bounds. That’s why tyrants such as Kim Jong Un, Xi Xinping, Vladimir Putin, and the leaders of minor countries such as Cuba, Venezuela, Namibia, Afghanistan, etc. rule over large populations in the 21st century.
 
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megablue

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For Christians, belief in heaven and hell, it seems to me, has its origin in the Bible. Likewise, do believers here also believe in Satan and that Satan is actively influencing peoples’ behavior ??

I do not know about whether Satan is part of other religions and belief systems throughout the world.
 
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HymanKaplan_rivals48997

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Catemus said:
Sorry. jumped the gun.

It serves me right. I don't even really want to get into the nature or form of God. My initial and only real point is that, "observably" it is just as, if not MORE plausible, at this point, that life in our physical universe had a jump start from an external force, which you could describe as God.

One thing though, that has always puzzled me, when it comes to atheists, is that inconsistencies, or perceived flaws in a religious God's will/judgement very often is cited as proof that the entire idea of a God is nonsense. Christopher Hitchens, for example, got a lot of mileage out that. (And this is not directed towards Catemus, it's just a general observation. )


From a reductionist point of view - the idea that complicated behaviors and phenomena can be better explained by “reducing” them into small, simple pieces - an explanation for the physical origin of life is easy. It is the stage in chemical evolution at which the process becomes biological, or alive.

There are six main ingredients that make up 97% of every living creature: Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Phosphorus, and Sulfur. About 13 minor elements make up the remaining 3%.

So, we know what the ingredients are for constructing life but we don’t know the recipe. That’s much, much harder to figure out.


Atheism is merely an absence of belief in the existence of deities. No proof is needed.
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So, it's faith based. ie a religion.
 
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Cold Stout Beer

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WildcatfaninOhio said:
Hell is a made-up punishment, just as heaven is a made-up reward. Both payable after you’re dead, so there’s no way to actually know if they’re real.

PS - they’re not real
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Much rather gamble that there's a heaven and hell and than that there's not. I guess thats why atheists work so hard to disprove it all.......they have no clue, either, and are hoping. Hoping nothing good happens after this life so they can be lazy and not do the hard work it would take to believe in this one. Yikes.
 
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berniecarbo

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Are there no atheists in foxholes? I don't know if it is absolutely true or not, but I have heard the guy next to me while sweeping a field pleading with God not to die. I should have asked him later if he was a Christian, but I didn't.
 
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megablue

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Cold Stout Beer said:
Much rather gamble that there's a heaven and hell and than that there's not. I guess thats why atheists work so hard to disprove it all.......they have no clue, either, and are hoping. Hoping nothing good happens after this life so they can be lazy and not do the hard work it would take to believe in this one. Yikes.
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I understand the sentiment, of course, that it's better to believe "to be safe, than sorry" or "just in case" ... but does anyone who claims to believe under that premise REALLY believe, or just claim to believe ?? Surely, should it matter, God will know the difference. It seems to me that many non-believers have just become honest with themselves and decided they cannot pretend to be believe, after seriously questioning their faith and coming to grips with their conclusion.

Regards Satan, in my earlier post, I was curious about if people truly believe in him/her and also that he/she is actively engaged in promulgating evil in the minds of people ?? Satan is introduced in the Bible, just as heaven and hell are, so it begs the question for me. Are heaven and hell real, but Satan isn't ??
 
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SDC888

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Heaven and Hell are real, something we will all know one day. The only question is on an individiaul evel , will it be too late.

The modern scientific reductionist has no reason to trust his own reasoning for he is saying that reason itself must have an irrational source. There is no more illogical statement than it is to say from norhting came evertyhing. Understanding how some of that everything works says nothing about the why, it says nothing about the miracle that we exist. Give you one free miracle that is the big bang and only then can you begin with "your" presuppositions and conclusions. Give you one free miracle that is abiogenesis, and only then can you begin with evolutionary theory and your descriptions of consciousness, how something entirely different (animate and self-determining) come from sothing not, something inert without its own agency.
 
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Ron Mehico

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Catemus said:
What is? Atheism? No, it’s just the absence of beliefs in deities. Many people, in fact most, misuse the term atheism when antitheism is the appropriate word. By definition, atheism is not anti-religion, anti-God, or anti-anything.
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Well done, yes I would categorize some of the “atheists” in here of not being that at all - but rather “antitheists”. Many atheists don’t harbor bad feelings towards religion. Nor do Agnostics.
 
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