One of the worst side effects of the idea of an actual hell, is how badly some xians want it to be real so that others will suffer.
POLL: Is there a God ??
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One of the worst side effects of the idea of an actual hell, is how badly some xians want it to be real so that others will suffer.
This is the exact opposite of what a genuine Christian thinks.
Because hell is real and you will suffer eternally, they want you to accept God into your heart before it's too late.
So, your imaginary friend, loving and good, will have me tortured for eternity for the “crime” of not believing in him? Doesn’t that scare the **** out of you? What minor transgression that you might have committed would cause him to do the same to you? And you choose to worship such a monster? I’ll never get it!
It is interesting how he revels in his ignorance. All bc someone hurt his feelings once upon a time. Sad.
If you want to motivate others to your side, you might want to ease up on all the damnation and eternal suffering talk. Most people, whether they're believers or nonbelievers, are fine people. That's good enough for me. I choose to believe that we have a limited time here and then we die. My relatives are in the ground and whatever lived inside them is no more. I think their souls, whatever you consider a soul being, aren't in a place that isn't actually a place that none of us can see or feel.
Let's spin this another way since you used the phrase "before it's too late." On this board, climate change and people who think we need to make drastic changes..."before it's too late", are mocked. Some here say climate change is a religion, and again, it's mocked. I don't believe religion should be mocked, but to be honest, your post sounds a bit alarmist, much like someone who says the world is going to burn because of the climbing climate. I just think we need a little consistency in these threads. I mean, it's really not different at all. You think something is real and if others don't accept your reality, they will suffer because it'll be too late. That's exactly how some climate change alarmists sound.
About what I expected tbh. You haven't provided any proof or information of substance in this thread. Only a bunch of putdowns. (You have proven you have, or are aware, of an impressive collection of comic books, i'll give you that one.)
btw, that is not your decision. But you illustrated both of my 2 categories from a couple of days ago. 1. You think you're god and can determine the rules. 2. which illustrates, you really don't understand.
well done.
If you don't repent and believe in the gospel, you (general) will die in your sin.
Some poster here is not the arbiter of that nor when that decision is made.
The conversation earlier was about life and meaning. It's certainly the case that you can have an ostensibly "good" and "meaningful" life pursuing your interests and interpersonal bonds within generally accepted societal values and norms, but i'ts an illusion that you have what we as Christians are talking about as meaningful.
We have all that too, but that's nothing compared to what actually gives life meaning.
It used to bother me that I wasn't raised in teh Church, but reading what these people write, it makes me understand/thankful why I wasn't.
The last book I read was called the untethered soul. I really enjoyed it. Talked about finding your true soul and meaning and blocking out the “constant narrator” in your life. Was really interesting to see different perspectives, definitely had a lot borrowed from eastern beliefs. Throughout all of the interesting philosophies hell or eternal damnation always seemed out of place or confusing. Much more compelling to think about the soul imo.
I have no idea wtf you’re talking about. If I think that there are no gods, then how/why would I think that I am a god?
Confused by you!
…………”The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.”
Ecclesiastes 12:13
Yet another sticking point for me when it comes to xianity, Why must a person fear god?
I hear the xian god described as loving and kind and generous. Isn't that good enough. Can't you worship your god out of respect and gratitude? Why fear? If I fear something, I avoid it at all costs. I damn sure ain't going to expose myself to it on a regular basis. And if I could choose a god to follow, I'd sure want to pick one that I could respect. Not some a-hole that scares the bejesus outta me.
It's the beginning of wisdom.
And the fear is not the same qualitatively like that which you experience as an atheist. It is a fear that generates respect and gratitude, closeness not evasion.
What you as an atheist want, other religions similarly, is \ to create a god in your own image.
How do you do that? Enter my brain, scan my thoughts, and figure out what I want? That’s quite a gift you have there.
No, I do not want a god at all. Not mine, not yours, not anyone else’s. I just want to understand how and why xians can justify worshipping an invisible entity that they fear. And how they think words are pliable, and definitions can be modified to fit a narrative that’s not obvious to the average person that understands language.
So, fear is not really fear? Fear is respect and gratitude? I’ll keep this in mind next time I watch a scary movie. Jamie Lee Curtis is showing respect and gratitude towards Michael Myers. Got it!
Exact same reason why I feared my dad growing up. He loved me unconditionally and did a fantastic job raising me. But when I screwed up, did I ever fear him. Helped shape me to be the man/father I am today. Much like God has.
But did I ever revere him and respect the heck out of him for how he raised me.
You don’t have to believe in God, but the idea that you would not have fear in the presence of the God who created the universe and is not bounded by its parameters is irrational. If you walk to the edge of a cliff that drops down into a canyon, you have a respectful fear of the danger it creates. Magnify that exponentially. If you witness close up a tornado, even from a safe distance, you know of what I mean.
Add to that the realization that this all-powerful sovereign God is truly holy, meaning there is a universal good. You would immediately be cognizant of the fact that you are anything but. It’s easy to say someone is “good” by a sliding scale human standard. Sure, you have ugly thoughts, may occasionally lie, take advantage of situations when you think you won’t get caught, but others see you as good and you don’t act on your worst thoughts and your little indiscretions didn’t really hurt anyone. Well, place that self rationalization next to a truly holy God and it would be stark, knee shaking, and awe inspiring.
God permits you to dismiss His existence, but if He exists, you will not be in His presence without fear, awe, wonder, etc.
Add to that the realization that this all-powerful sovereign God is truly holy, meaning there is a universal good. You would immediately be cognizant of the fact that you are anything but. It’s easy to say someone is “good” by a sliding scale human standard. Sure, you have ugly thoughts, may occasionally lie, take advantage of situations when you think you won’t get caught, but others see you as good and you don’t act on your worst thoughts and your little indiscretions didn’t really hurt anyone. Well, place that self rationalization next to a truly holy God and it would be stark, knee shaking, and awe inspiring.
God permits you to dismiss His existence, but if He exists, you will not be in His presence without fear, awe, wonder, etc.
Man ... perfectly said CC.
And how do we know what non believers are thinking? Despite their huuuuuge brains, the non believers here have no original arguments/complaints on the matter. We have heard them all b4, in fact we have (do) struggled w them ourselves.
This is a key distinction. I was an atheist before I was a Christian, so it's very easy to understand them, their arguments, and why they make "sense" to them.
The same cannot be said of the inverse. The unbeliever has no genuine understanding of what it's like to be a believer.
I would beg to disagree-bigly!
Atheism and/or agnosticism simply refer to disbelief or skepticism about supernatural beings. Atheism or agnosticism are not religions or belief systems, any more than not believing in Thor or Zeus is a belief system. It really is that simple. Hard to create It's very hard to create a god in someones self image, if that someone does not believe in, or is skeptical of the existence of god.
On the other hand I was a believer for the better part of 45 years, My friends, family, and colleagues are largely believers, and more than a few are very radical, right wing, conservative Christians. Almost every single one of these that I know carries with them-at least in their mind-their own personal version of a God they've created
in their own head that at least in part reflects their personal cultural beliefs and experiences.
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Yeah, I know what the definition is. You most definitely have a belief system.
And the rest of that is my point.
Of course fear means fear. When the Apostle Paul admonishes the Philippians to :continue to work our their own salvations in fear and trembling, he's warning them to not make the wrong choices or they're going to end up in eternal torture. And this comes from the New Testament, where the God is a little kinder and gentler version than the Bronze Age version.
The Constitution is pointless?
I do have a belief system-but it's not defined by my lack of belief in supernatural beings. The term "Atheist" is simply another term to label meant to demean those who don't exactly fit in the mainstream. I don't believe in Zeus, either. Doest that make me "antizeus""?
The poster to whom I responded had stated that atheists create god in their own image:" All anyone has to do is point to the rise in Christian Nationalism and the nearly religious fervor with which some evangelical Christians support Donald Trump to understand that the exact opposite is actually true.
Atheism simply means without theism. If you took offense to that, then that's on you, not the terminology. I'm not in the business of insulting you.
The "god" you/they create in your/their own image is yourself. And "Christian Nationalism," whatever that actually means, I had to do a fair amount of research to figure out what you people mean by that as I've never met someone who espoused such beliefs, is not biblical. It is indeed antithetical to what it means to be Christian; we are not to create a theocracy.
I am not sure why an atheist would post in this thread more than one time, unless to answer questions from agnostics. When atheism becomes evangelical, it is a religion.
Tim Keller quotes a former atheist financial advisor from NYC in his book The Reason For God:
“While sitting in a coffee shop reading C.S. Lewis’s Mere Christianity, I put down the book and wrote in my notebook ‘the evidence surrounding the claims of Christianity is simply overwhelming.’ I realized that my achievements were ultimately unsatisfying, the approval of man is fleeting, that a carpe diem life lived solely for adventure is just a form of narcissism and idolatry.”
“While sitting in a coffee shop reading C.S. Lewis’s Mere Christianity, I put down the book and wrote in my notebook ‘the evidence surrounding the claims of Christianity is simply overwhelming.’ I realized that my achievements were ultimately unsatisfying, the approval of man is fleeting, that a carpe diem life lived solely for adventure is just a form of narcissism and idolatry.”
I think life was the “adventure” for that JP Morgan broker. I don’t know that he was working low hours in NYC.I work 6 days a week I hardly have time or money for a life of adventure. I wish I did.
Well I was raised Jewish still practice Judaism. You know me bc we argue a lot on the bb forum. I once took a door to another dimension (literally) and came back as a believer in Christianity. I was very skeptical bordering agnosticism when it happened. I once went to a catholic pilgrimage site where the Virgin Mary appears. I along with others saw all we needed to to know that atheists are absolutely wrong, science only explains a handful of things and that the love of god is real. Idc if you accept it or not. But I am telling you to keep searching don’t declare atheism bc I can 100% tell you there is a god. Outside of what I experienced at this site I’ve since spent time with family in Israel and the spirituality there is very thick and tangible.
I’m just going to say this last thing. Don’t get caught up on the word god. It’s too broad and means too many things. That describes beings on a higher plain than man. If you don’t believe there is life with a far greater intellect than man then I’m sorry but that’s just plain arrogance. I think it takes some serious stubbornness to not believe in a creator or higher level being that brought life to earth. Of course we rely on scientists on this little spec of dust to explain the entirety of the cosmos. That logic lacks all common sense:
I can agree with you. I think this is why terms like non religious or unaffiliated get way higher results in polling.
For a Jesus believer who desires everyone to experience the transformation of Christ and wants all to be resurrected to a relationship with God, apathy is more depressing than antagonism. In most of history, orthodox Biblical belief has grown most when oppressed and under attack.
1 - You have mastered the art of self-delusion
2 - This is a lie
3 - You are in need of mental health counseling and/or heavy meds due to a separation from reality.
Not sure which applies. But certainly, one of them does.
Don’t ask Ohio to prove his claims, because it is a matter of faith. He is with this post claiming to know more, but won’t be able to prove it. But, any other conclusions that don’t comport with his faith will be rejected.
Or there are inexplicable things that occur on which science doesn’t touch on because the minds of men are so small. Yet we believe with arrogance that we know so much.
None of those 3 you mentioned are applicable here. It happened. I know you can’t comprehend it and if I had been alone yeah self delusion, hallucinations, mental health you bet you’re *** if I hadn’t experienced what those with me at the time did I would have checked myself into the hospital. But it was multiple people, and not only that over time it’s been tens of thousands who have witnessed similar events. Science in no way explains it. And Let’s put it this way. The pilgrimage site was so tangible and real that one of the top directors in Hollywood bought the land next to it solely because of the experiences he and others had there. I don’t feel the need to give you details of what happened or where the place is. It’s like a fishing hole. You don’t air it to everyone or it will become over run.
And WFO I was very very skeptical when I went. I Came out though with so much confirmation it was impossible to deny. Science can’t explain it. It was definitely inexplicable from the standpoint of any knowledge that exists today. I’m open to talking about it in detail if anyone wants to message me.
Tens of thousands have experienced it yet no video/audio evidence? Sounds plausible.
I like how this is shrouded in mystery and the location is to remain a secret. Can’t give out any details though, right? Except that it’s a doorway to another dimension. And tens of thousands have experienced it. But that’s all you can share. But it’s to remain hush hush. Don’t want others to find out. Except for the dozens that have read this post. And the dozens that have heard it from each of the other ten thousand people that know about it.
Nothing weird about this at all. Seems legit!
It is fas his "intellect" doesnt recognize getting played. He always demands "proof" yet offers nothing. "Do as i say, not as i do..."
I don’t care what you think at all. Yeah people in the thread may know about the place idk i haven’t said where it is. But why would I share it with someone who is disrespectful and potentially blasphemous? The place exists that’s all that matters. If someone who I thought was seriously interested in going there I would share it with them. It’s a holy site. Tbh I don’t know if it’s accesible right now to the public. My experience there happened what 25 years ago?
One thing you’ll find spiritual people they don’t owe you any explanations. They’ve seen enough to have total faith. Im not talking about a cafeteria catholic or some person who is solely a weekly church goer. I’m talking about people who have really felt the spirit and experienced miracles. If you get their story you’re blessed. If you ridicule them they owe you ziltch.
He wants to spread the word, then won't tell anyone where this obvious miracle is taking place. Because then, you know, the secret would get out.