POLL: Is there a God ??

[MadaboutBlue]

How many times do we have to say Genesis was never written as a science book? No one who has studied Genesis believes it was written as a science book. This cliche’ remains sad.

You say that and yet I can think of a great many people right here in my town who study the Bible intensely (some even get paid to do so) who may not exactly believe the Book of Genesis is a science book, but who very much believe that it is the inerrant word of God and is the literal story of creation. Go over to Grant County and you're going to find quite a few more that are devoted to not only believing but proselytizing this very message and have created a multi-million dollar a year business to do that very thing. I don't know how you can even make that comment, much less deride anyone that disagrees with you.

I agree with you, Genesis is an allegory for how the world began, and most importantly, how sin entered into the world, which is the real million dollar question, and for all the protestations, has yet to be addressed.

 

[Beatle Bum]

You say that and yet I can think of a great many people right here in my town who study the Bible intensely (some even get paid to do so) who may not exactly believe the Book of Genesis is a science book, but who very much believe that it is the inerrant word of God and is the literal story of creation. Go over to Grant County and you're going to find quite a few more that are devoted to not only believing but proselytizing this very message and have created a multi-million dollar a year business to do that very thing. I don't know how you can even make that comment, much less deride anyone that disagrees with you.

I agree with you, Genesis is an allegory for how the world began, and most importantly, how sin entered into the world, which is the real million dollar question, and for all the protestations, has yet to be addressed.

I believe the message is without error. I disagree that we should read it as we read writings written for a modern western world. You want both. You want to read it as if it was written today and criticize it for not. If someone here has voiced your concerns about Grant County apologists, I missed it.

“ There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Do people make money off believers? Definitely. Is that an argument against God. No.

You want to struggle with the complexities of God and then act as if those complexities are stumbling blocks for His existence. He should be more obvious and humanly understandable for you. I wish you the best in your pursuit of truth.

 

[SDC888]

I believe the message is without error. I disagree that we should read it as we read writings written for a modern western world. You want both. You want to read it as if it was written today and criticize it for not. If someone here has voiced your concerns about Grant County apologists, I missed it.

“ There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Do people make money off believers? Definitely. Is that an argument against God. No.

You want to struggle with the complexities of God and then act as if those complexities are stumbling blocks for His existence. He should be more obvious and humanly understandable for you. I wish you the best in your pursuit of truth.

Well done.

 

[MadaboutBlue]

Well done.

As always, he avoided the question. He makes the statement that "Genesis is not a science book" and that "No one who has studied Genesis believes it was written as a science book" and yet avoids that fact that a great many Christians use Genesis as a literal explanation of the beginning of creation. Aren't you in that camp? So, without all the side tracking and speculation of what others understand or believe, is the story of creation literally true or is it an allegory?

 

[Beatle Bum]

As always, he avoided the question. He makes the statement that "Genesis is not a science book" and that "No one who has studied Genesis believes it was written as a science book" and yet avoids that fact that a great many Christians use Genesis as a literal explanation of the beginning of creation. Aren't you in that camp? So, without all the side tracking and speculation of what others understand or believe, is the story of creation literally true or is it an allegory?

The message of the Bible is true. If I disagree about an interpretation of whether God created in 7 human days, based upon the rotation of earth as it circles the sun, or whether 7 days is a perfect amount of time for a good creation, is that some sort of gotcha for you? Do you believe that we must all agree on little details to be unified in a common truth? This line of reasoning is consistent with the idea that all things must be understood before anything may be agreed upon. I don’t subscribe to that approach.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

As always, he avoided the question. He makes the statement that "Genesis is not a science book" and that "No one who has studied Genesis believes it was written as a science book" and yet avoids that fact that a great many Christians use Genesis as a literal explanation of the beginning of creation. Aren't you in that camp? So, without all the side tracking and speculation of what others understand or believe, is the story of creation literally true or is it an allegory?

Personally, I’m just happy to finally see some xians begin to admit that there are factual inaccuracies in the buybull. Once a person admits to one inaccuracy, then perhaps they can admit to seeing the lies, absurdities, immorality and nonsense. Then the whole thing unravels. Before long they can see how ludicrous the entire story is, and began to think rationally.

 

[christophero]

And if some of it is allegory and some of it is not, how do you know what is real and what isn't? Seems to be a lot of mental gymnastics going on. Before my question gets dismissed my parents spent a lot of time in church/reading the Bible and struggled with this.

 

[Beatle Bum]

And if some of it is allegory and some of it is not, how do you know what is real and what isn't? Seems to be a lot of mental gymnastics going on.

Is the pursuit of God too difficult? I think not. Can it be as deep as you desire? Of course. That is part of the “relationship” of which people speak. God is attainable, but complex. As you would expect.

The absurdity in this thread is the claim of biblical expertise from many who have read only criticisms of the Bible.

 

[christophero]

I guess. Some people believe the Bible is literally the word of God and some believe it is man trying to explain God. If it's the latter I don't see the point in studying it so thoroughly. It would be like reading a 10 year old's version of a science book. But if someone wants to it doesn't matter to me. I do know a lot of people who believe the Bible literally. I think there is a God, but not exactly the one in the Bible. You're trusting man on that one. God never spoke to me personally.

 

[Beatle Bum]

I guess. Some people believe the Bible is literally the word of God and some believe it is man trying to explain God. If it's the latter I don't see the point in studying it so thoroughly. It would be like reading a 10 year old's version of a science book. But if someone wants to it doesn't matter to me. I do know a lot of people who believe the Bible literally. I think there is a God, but not exactly the one in the Bible. You're trusting man on that one. God never spoke to me personally.

What are you trusting?

 

[christophero]

I just think we don't have the answers. I try to live a good life and help others. I do believe in God. I'm not sold on the Bible as absolute truth. There is a lot of middle ground there. It's not all or nothing to me.

 

[MadaboutBlue]

The message of the Bible is true. If I disagree about an interpretation of whether God created in 7 human days, based upon the rotation of earth as it circles the sun, or whether 7 days is a perfect amount of time for a good creation, is that some sort of gotcha for you? Do you believe that we must all agree on little details to be unified in a common truth? This line of reasoning is consistent with the idea that all things must be understood before anything may be agreed upon. I don’t subscribe to that approach.

It's not a "gotcha" at all. That's y'alls thing..not mine.

But I would like to know....since we all agree now that the Bible is not a science book and isn't scientifcaly viable..can we all work together to keep ideas like "intelligent design" out of the public schools?

 

[MadaboutBlue]

And if some of it is allegory and some of it is not, how do you know what is real and what isn't?

Now that's a real question, isn't it? It's a always a sliding scale depending on what the user wants to say. I hear "that's not what the Bible means..because that passage is just allegorical and you have to take it in context, or examine it int the time frame in which it was writting (which sounds suspiciously like my argument that that morality has evolved over time).

On the other hand, depending on whatever point is being made, if you use homosexuality or the Bibles teachings about women not being allowed to even ask questions in Church, you're going to get..."but that is what the Bible says".

 

[Beatle Bum]

The creation stories in Genesis are written as poems to convey essential truths about God and his creation. You have to want to not believe to criticize it for not being written as we would write it today. Which is not a surprise, because people will go to extra effort to deny God and encourage others to do the same.

 

[christophero]

I'm naturally a skeptical person; I come at things from a skeptic's perspective. Things like aliens, UFOs, if I watch footage I assume it's fake or a drone, etc. unless proven otherwise. It's the way I'm wired. I don't have any agenda. I just don't accept things because they are in a 2000 year old book. I am open to the possibility that it may be true, some of it is likely true, but I doubt all of it is true.

 

[SDC888]

As always, he avoided the question. He makes the statement that "Genesis is not a science book" and that "No one who has studied Genesis believes it was written as a science book" and yet avoids that fact that a great many Christians use Genesis as a literal explanation of the beginning of creation. Aren't you in that camp? So, without all the side tracking and speculation of what others understand or believe, is the story of creation literally true or is it an allegory?

In general, I'm personally not particularly concerned with individuals' perceptions and interpretations, which are fallible.

These objections confusions are entirely immaterial to your salvation, which is entrusting your life to Jesus, believing in Him, and He was who He said He was, and did what He said He did, and Why. And that He is. I don't know, or particularly care for that matter, if a day in Genesis was literally 24 hours or as a metaphorical "thousand" years. It's not critical: it was written for a different time, yet equally pertinent today.

Personally, I’m just happy to finally see some xians begin to admit that there are factual inaccuracies in the buybull. Once a person admits to one inaccuracy, then perhaps they can admit to seeing the lies, absurdities, immorality and nonsense. Then the whole thing unravels. Before long they can see how ludicrous the entire story is, and began to think rationally.

The bible is the inerrant word of God: where there is "inaccuracy, lies, absurdities, immorality and nonsense," it is the fault of the individual's interpretation, not the source. A prime example of that is the completely intellectually dishonest argument you (general and specfic) were making about God and slavery. All those deliberate distortions just serve your own indulgence and self-righteousness, no different substantively than any other ideology, philosophy or religions.

I just think we don't have the answers. I try to live a good life and help others. I do believe in God. I'm not sold on the Bible as absolute truth. There is a lot of middle ground there. It's not all or nothing to me.

It is all or nothing. You give your life to Him, or you don't.

 

[Beatle Bum]

It's not a "gotcha" at all. That's y'alls thing..not mine.

But I would like to know....since we all agree now that the Bible is not a science book and isn't scientifcaly viable..can we all work together to keep ideas like "intelligent design" out of the public schools?

You and your “y’alls.” Y’all should mix it up a bit. LOL

Intelligent design is a theory of science.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Here is a current piece (posted today) that relates, to an extent, to some of what has been shared and discussed in this thread … it is has political overtones, of course, but the waning of and shifting in adherence to religion is the focus. Politics totally aside, it suggests belief continues to decline around the country.

https://apple.news/A9UOWX1TFRCOhnlW3HyM7yQ

I read an article just the other day and was amazed to learn that the Archdiocese of Cincinnati has plans to greatly consolidate parishes, shrinking from 200 to 70, owing to a decline in attendance and a shortage of priests.

I bet they could get their numbers back up if they adjusted their pretend cannibalism ritual. I mean, why must everyone settle for just a sip of the house red wine? Can’t everyone have a choice? Some people might prefer a nice Pinot noir. Or even a merlot. And does it have to be a red? If it’s a warm summer day some might prefer a chilled Riesling, or perhaps a Pinot Grigio. But I guess red is better since it’s supposed to be blood.

*gag* Still grossed me out.

But, anyways…I’d give it a go if it was a decent rye bread instead of a stale wafer. And maybe some cheese. And fruit. Make it a little charcuterie board. With a nice Argentinian Malbec. And make it a proper 5oz pour, not just a sip. And definitely make it a dinner thing, not early Sunday morning. I mean…learn to adapt, right? Who’s with me on this?

 

[Beatle Bum]

“The greatest barrier I have met is the almost total absence from the minds of my audience of any sense of sin... The early Christian preachers could assume in their hearers, whether Jews, Metuentes, or Pagans, a sense of guilt. (That this was common among Pagans is shown by the fact that both Epicureanism and the mystery religions both claimed, though in different ways, to assuage it.) Thus the Christian message was in those days unmistakably the Evangelium, the Good News. It promised healing to those who knew they were sick. We have to convince our hearers of the unwelcome diagnosis before we can expect them to welcome the news of the remedy.

The ancient man approached God (or even the gods) as the accused person approaches his judge. For the modern man, the roles are quite reversed. He is the judge: God is in the dock. He is quite a kindly judge; if God should have a reasonable defense for being the god who permits war, poverty, and disease, he is ready to listen to it. The trial may even end in God’s acquittal. But the important thing is that man is on the bench and God is in the dock.”

CS Lewis

 

[christophero]

What is with your CS Lewis fixation? I like the Narnia books too, but what does him being a believer or not add to the discussion? And yes I am aware of his writings on Christianity. A lot of smart people are believers and a lot of smart people are nonbelievers.

 

[Beatle Bum]

What is with your CS Lewis fixation? I like the Narnia books too, but what does him being a believer or not add to the discussion? And yes I am aware of his writings on Christianity. A lot of smart people are believers and a lot of smart people are nonbelievers.

CS Lewis triggers you. So noted.

 

[christophero]

Great answer.

 

[Beatle Bum]

Great answer.

Yeah, your answer was a prize. Congrats for reading a bunch of CS Lewis. LOL

 

[christophero]

I'm off for a walk. Have a great Sunday. I mean that I'm not being snarky lol.

 

[MadaboutBlue]

Intelligent design is a theory of science.

Intelligent Design has absolutely, positively, nothing to do with science is in no way any kind of "scientific theory". Intelligent Design Is just a thinly designed, right wing, political hoax to work theism into the public school curriculum.. Just one more clumsy attempt to subvert the Constitution of the United States, like that ham handed pretense of posting the Ten Commandments in schools and Government buildings because they were..you know..historical documents.

So at the risk or raising anyone's ire for mixing up this topic with Politics, what I see passing for Christianity these days has almost nothing to do with love, treatment of others, and salvation, and has everything to do with breaking down individuals of different view points and institutions that are committed to secular and humanistic
ideals.

When Christians were beaten back by the Courts and the Public over trying to force creationism into public schools, their next big move was to rework creationism into a more polished and academic sounding sales pitch: "Intelligent Design". Luckily, this attempt has likewise been consistently and handily beaten back by the Courts, which have identified ID for what it really is- creationism in a better suit-but with our current not so Supreme Court Judges made up of Judges straight out of the Salem Witch Trials, who knows what's going to happen.

 

[SDC888]

Intelligent Design has absolutely, positively, nothing to do with science is in no way any kind of "scientific theory". Intelligent Design Is just a thinly designed, right wing, political hoax to work theism into the public school curriculum.. Just one more clumsy attempt to subvert the Constitution of the United States, like that ham handed pretense of posting the Ten Commandments in schools and Government buildings because they were..you know..historical documents.

So at the risk or raising anyone's ire for mixing up this topic with Politics, what I see passing for Christianity these days has almost nothing to do with love, treatment of others, and salvation, and has everything to do with breaking down individuals of different view points and institutions that are committed to secular and humanistic
ideals.

When Christians were beaten back by the Courts and the Public over trying to force creationism into public schools, their next big move was to rework creationism into a more polished and academic sounding sales pitch: "Intelligent Design". Luckily, this attempt has likewise been consistently and handily beaten back by the Courts, which have identified ID for what it really is- creationism in a better suit-but with our current not so Supreme Court Judges made up of Judges straight out of the Salem Witch Trials, who knows what's going to happen.

It's not about "raising ire," it's forum decorum becuase of the consequences (thread gets locked, punted to PT).

But what you've just desribed is the radical leftist modus operandi, which is indeed its own religion, and just as the right shouldn't force Christianity upon the public, so too should you keep your secular humanistic religion to yourself. THa'ts what it means to be genuinely "liberal," btw... that's a significant part of it anyway, one of many complaints we "proper" liberals for lack of a better term have with you ideologue leftists.

You should you keep your secular humanistic religion to yourself and not indoctrinate the next generation through bunk, thoroughly corrupted, pedagogy. Your the same side of the other coin. Those courts you praise today are going to wake up to what you are doing and treat you likewise the same, G-d-willing.

 

[Beatle Bum]

Intelligent Design has absolutely, positively, nothing to do with science is in no way any kind of "scientific theory". Intelligent Design Is just a thinly designed, right wing, political hoax to work theism into the public school curriculum.. Just one more clumsy attempt to subvert the Constitution of the United States, like that ham handed pretense of posting the Ten Commandments in schools and Government buildings because they were..you know..historical documents.

So at the risk or raising anyone's ire for mixing up this topic with Politics, what I see passing for Christianity these days has almost nothing to do with love, treatment of others, and salvation, and has everything to do with breaking down individuals of different view points and institutions that are committed to secular and humanistic
ideals.

When Christians were beaten back by the Courts and the Public over trying to force creationism into public schools, their next big move was to rework creationism into a more polished and academic sounding sales pitch: "Intelligent Design". Luckily, this attempt has likewise been consistently and handily beaten back by the Courts, which have identified ID for what it really is- creationism in a better suit-but with our current not so Supreme Court Judges made up of Judges straight out of the Salem Witch Trials, who knows what's going to happen.

Geez, that is a rant, and chiefly political, about a one-sentenced truth. Intelligent design is a scientific theory, based in science and probabilities. It is true that scientists have realized intelligent design and been persuaded toward theism, but there are also alien seeding theorists that found their beliefs in intelligent design. It is far more plausible than the primordial soupy concoction abiogenesis theory that the secular religion touts.

Anyone who ends their argument with a reference to the Salem Witch Trials, probably not knowing of what they speak, has to be taken as merely politically trolling. Take it to the other board.

“y’all” not convincing.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brie...nly-half-of-americans-say-a-definite-yes/amp/

An interesting new poll on religion. Here’s one of many highlights….

Not quite 50 percent of Americans say they have no doubt about the existence of God, according to the 2022 survey, released Wednesday by NORC, the University of Chicago research organization. As recently as 2008, the share of sure-believers topped 60 percent.

Thirty-four percent of Americans never go to church, NORC found, the highest figure recorded in five decades of surveys.

Another new report, from the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI), said that 27 percent of Americans claimed no religion in 2022, up from 19 percent in 2012 and 16 percent in 2006.

 

[MadaboutBlue]

Geez, that is a rant, and chiefly political, about a one-sentenced truth. Intelligent design is a scientific theory, based in science and probabilities. It is true that scientists have realized intelligent design and been persuaded toward theism, but there are also alien seeding theorists that found their beliefs in intelligent design. It is far more plausible than the primordial soupy concoction abiogenesis theory that the secular religion touts.

Anyone who ends their argument with a reference to the Salem Witch Trials, probably not knowing of what they speak, has to be taken as merely politically trolling. Take it to the other board.

“y’all” not convincing.

Y'all struggling with reading comprehension so let me try even simpler language. So called "Intelligent Design" doesn't have anything to do with science and not much to do with Religion. I only bring any of this up because you claim Intelligent Design is Scientific Theory" after of course also claiming that Genesis is not a science book when called out for the many scientific and historical inaccuracies it seems to claim.

Back in the 1970's and 80's there was a political move by Right Wingers to infiltrate the public schools with what they called "creation science" which was just another way of saying they wanted the schools to teach Christianity as science. This move was soundly and universally defeated in the Court System because the very first amendment in the Constitution prohibits teaching religion from State Agencies.

The Right Wingers didn't back off, however. They went back to the drawing board and repackaged Creationism as Intelligent Design and once again headed toward the public schools. Of course, Parents challenged this move, and this clumsy con was immediately recognized by U.S. District Court Judge John E. Jones III. Jones, wrote in his decision that intelligent design "cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents." As part of his decision, Judge Jones ordered the Dover school board to pay legal fees and damages, which were eventually set at $1 million.

Understand now?

 

[mcnicKY91]

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brie...nly-half-of-americans-say-a-definite-yes/amp/

An interesting new poll on religion. Here’s one of many highlights….

Not quite 50 percent of Americans say they have no doubt about the existence of God, according to the 2022 survey, released Wednesday by NORC, the University of Chicago research organization. As recently as 2008, the share of sure-believers topped 60 percent.

Thirty-four percent of Americans never go to church, NORC found, the highest figure recorded in five decades of surveys.

Another new report, from the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI), said that 27 percent of Americans claimed no religion in 2022, up from 19 percent in 2012 and 16 percent in 2006.

Not surprising to say the least. The number of people who identify as Christians or associated with other religions will continue to dwindle. Again, not suprising in the least.

I believe it was in response to a previous post, but the Bible is very clear that more and more people will abandon the Christian faith. I would say your post/link would support that.

 

[BC_Wader]

I saw God's handiwork yesterday. The red winged blackbird and his awesome call. The Ospreys and Hawks in flight. The whipporwhil, the owl, the MASSIVE beaver trying to stave us off from his den. He had a lumber yard going on over there! I saw a once ravaged land stripped for it's minerals brought back to a beautiful sanctuary of nature. You wanna find God? Put down the tech and things of this world that are man made. Strip it all down as far as you can.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Not surprising to say the least. The number of people who identify as Christians or associated with other religions will continue to dwindle. Again, not suprising in the least.

I believe it was in response to a previous post, but the Bible is very clear that more and more people will abandon the Christian faith. I would say your post/link would support that.

Any guess as to when the xian religion will die completely and begin being referred to as mythology, like other religions that died because people stopped believing it? Within 100 years? Longer?

 

[mcnicKY91]

Any guess as to when the xian religion will die completely and begin being referred to as mythology, like other religions that died because people stopped believing it? Within 100 years? Longer?

I am a pre-tribulation rapture believer (based upon what we are told in 1 Thessalonians 4)...without getting into the weeds eschatologically speaking, the Bible teaches all true believers will be raptured before God pours His wrath out on the Antichrist and his followers. Right before the rapture, things will be very brutal for believers. They will be persecuted for their beliefs and endure all sorts of brutality and hardship at the hands of non believers. At this time, the rapture will occur, delivering believers from the persecution faced on earth, and delivered from God's impending wrath on the earth.

So to answer your question, Christians will be around until the rapture occurs. But as we are told biblically, more and more believers will fall away from their faith the closer we get to "end times" (I think we are already in the end times, moreso pointing to the end times in reference to the rapture).

I think we can both agree on the fact that more and more Christians are leaving the faith, as there is plenty of evidence to support that.

 

[MegaBlue05]

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brie...nly-half-of-americans-say-a-definite-yes/amp/

An interesting new poll on religion. Here’s one of many highlights….

Not quite 50 percent of Americans say they have no doubt about the existence of God, according to the 2022 survey, released Wednesday by NORC, the University of Chicago research organization. As recently as 2008, the share of sure-believers topped 60 percent.

Thirty-four percent of Americans never go to church, NORC found, the highest figure recorded in five decades of surveys.

Another new report, from the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI), said that 27 percent of Americans claimed no religion in 2022, up from 19 percent in 2012 and 16 percent in 2006.

It seems to me religiosity is declining by 5-10 percent with each passing decade. The percentage of believers was in the 90s in the 1950s. That’s also the red scare era where we threw god onto the money and into the pledge of allegiance to an inanimate object.

The current version of American Christianity that is prevalent in political circles today yearns to live in a theocracy. As religion gets uglier and more hateful towards what it deems unsatisfactory “others,” more people will leave. The numbers will decrease with each decade. Within 50 years, believers could be in the minority. I believe this is why a lot of believers are desperate to legislate their religion onto the masses, because if they don’t willingly participate, let’s force them.

The believers will say that is the sign of end times. Nonbelievers will hope that will lead to an advanced society without the handcuff of story time with middle Eastern goat herders.

 

[Beatle Bum]

It seems to me religiosity is declining by 5-10 percent with each passing decade. The percentage of believers was in the 90s in the 1950s. That’s also the red scare era where we threw god onto the money and into the pledge of allegiance to an inanimate object.

The current version of American Christianity that is prevalent in political circles today yearns to live in a theocracy. As religion gets uglier and more hateful towards what it deems unsatisfactory “others,” more people will leave. The numbers will decrease with each decade. Within 50 years, believers could be in the minority. I believe this is why a lot of believers are desperate to legislate their religion onto the masses, because if they don’t willingly participate, let’s force them.

The believers will say that is the sign of end times. Nonbelievers will hope that will lead to an advanced society without the handcuff of story time with middle Eastern goat herders.

Take your political theories to the other board.

 

[MegaBlue05]

Y'all struggling with reading comprehension so let me try even simpler language. So called "Intelligent Design" doesn't have anything to do with science and not much to do with Religion. I only bring any of this up because you claim Intelligent Design is Scientific Theory" after of course also claiming that Genesis is not a science book when called out for the many scientific and historical inaccuracies it seems to claim.

Back in the 1970's and 80's there was a political move by Right Wingers to infiltrate the public schools with what they called "creation science" which was just another way of saying they wanted the schools to teach Christianity as science. This move was soundly and universally defeated in the Court System because the very first amendment in the Constitution prohibits teaching religion from State Agencies.

The Right Wingers didn't back off, however. They went back to the drawing board and repackaged Creationism as Intelligent Design and once again headed toward the public schools. Of course, Parents challenged this move, and this clumsy con was immediately recognized by U.S. District Court Judge John E. Jones III. Jones, wrote in his decision that intelligent design "cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents." As part of his decision, Judge Jones ordered the Dover school board to pay legal fees and damages, which were eventually set at $1 million.

Understand now?

I can add a fun anecdote to this from my Kentucky public education. The last 9 weeks of my high school biology class (10th grade) covered origins of earth.

We were taught intelligent design without question or hesitation. When it came time to learn the theory of evolution, students had to bring in a signed permission slip from our parents. Mine signed it, even though they’re highly religious. They believed schools teach science, religion is taught at home. I was one of 3 students in a class of 30 whose parents signed the slip. One girl’s parents accused the school system of teaching “Satanic Voodo”

To my teacher’s credit, he just taught the unit and never offered his opinion on which was correct.

The year was 1997. This wasn’t that long ago.

 

[MegaBlue05]

Take your political theories to the other board.

A little upset are we?

Sorry your club’s membership is dwindling.

I mentioned politics once and if you think the current iteration of the GOP isn’t advocating for a Christian ethnostate, you’re not paying attention.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

I am a pre-tribulation rapture believer (based upon what we are told in 1 Thessalonians 4)...without getting into the weeds eschatologically speaking, the Bible teaches all true believers will be raptured before God pours His wrath out on the Antichrist and his followers. Right before the rapture, things will be very brutal for believers. They will be persecuted for their beliefs and endure all sorts of brutality and hardship at the hands of non believers. At this time, the rapture will occur, delivering believers from the persecution faced on earth, and delivered from God's impending wrath on the earth.

So to answer your question, Christians will be around until the rapture occurs. But as we are told biblically, more and more believers will fall away from their faith the closer we get to "end times" (I think we are already in the end times, moreso pointing to the end times in reference to the rapture).

I think we can both agree on the fact that more and more Christians are leaving the faith, as there is plenty of evidence to support that.

So, basically, “The end is near”?

I’m thinking that when believers become the minority they’ll be treated WAY better than the way they treated nonbelievers when religion ran everything.

 

[christophero]

My youth group in the early 80s tried to scare us with the rapture is coming Left Behind stuff. They said by the 90s. Guess they had to push it back.

 

[mcnicKY91]

So, basically, “The end is near”?

I’m thinking that when believers become the minority they’ll be treated WAY better than the way they treated nonbelievers when religion ran everything.

Judging by the characteristics the Bible utilizes to describe what will happen as we get closer and closer to the Lord's return, I would say yes. But you won't find me trying to predict it like numerous "theologians" have over the years...they were proven to be absolute idiots, and once again, gave true believers a bad rap.

2 Timothy 3 says the following, all of which I would say is true today:

Godlessness in the Last Days

3 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9 But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.