POLL: Is there a God ??
- Thread starter megablue
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As has been discussed a million times in this thread, the historical, archeological, and prophetic EVIDENCE for Jesus Christ's life, ministry, crucifixion, and resurrection is vastly, and I mean vastly, superior to the totality of evidence for all other deities combined that have ever been worshipped during civilization.
Don't take my word for it. Do the research yourself.
In this thread alone, you have gone from saying you don't believe a God exists to saying God does not exist. As a typical atheist, you can't even keep your own position straight.
If there were verifiable, provable evidence that the person known as Jesus was a real person, was half-god half-human, was born to a virgin, was killed on our behalf, and his soul went up into the sky somewhere to be with the creator of the universe, I wouldn’t need to do any research. The moment that the verifiable evidence was attained there would be wall to wall media coverage. No other world events would come close to that news.
So I’m guessing that whatever evidence you think you’ve found isn’t provable at all.
You lose all credibility when you deny the reality of Jesus' existence. Yikes.
Do you also deny that Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, etc. existed as well?
There is more evidence for the existence of Jesus then there is for the three I mention above.
To be consistent, please make sure to let everyone know that those three individuals did not exist.
So you choose to zero in on his existence? Even if he did exist, what does that mean? I need the verifiable evidence that his mother was a virgin, his father was the creator of the universe, he was killed for our salvation, and 3 days later he came back to life and floated up into the sky.
This documentary on quantum mechanics/entanglement does a much better job of explaining what I have previously (but poorly) tried to lay out as mathematical proof that a supernatural force, that pulls strings/influences things in the PHYSICAL universe but is not actually a PART of that universe. That is the very definition of God. It has been proven that the force IS there/exists, and yet, it is unseeable/knowable.
“[W]hat you think about death, and life beyond it, is the key to thinking seriously about everything else — and, indeed, that it provides one of the main reasons for thinking seriously about anything at all.” NT Wright in Surprised by Hope.
[M]an’s nature, so to speak, is a perpetual factory of idols. After the Flood there was a sort of rebirth of the world, but not many years passed by before men were fashioning gods according to their pleasure … Man’s mind, full as it is of pride and boldness, dares to imagine a god according to its own capacity; as it sluggishly plods, indeed is overwhelmed with the crassest ignorance, it conceives an unreality and an empty appearance as God.
To these evils a new wickedness joins itself, that man tries to express in his work the sort of God he has inwardly conceived. Therefore the mind begets an idol; the hand gives it birth. The example of the Israelites shows the origin of idolatry to be that men do not believe God is with them unless he shows himself physically present.
- Calvin
To these evils a new wickedness joins itself, that man tries to express in his work the sort of God he has inwardly conceived. Therefore the mind begets an idol; the hand gives it birth. The example of the Israelites shows the origin of idolatry to be that men do not believe God is with them unless he shows himself physically present.
- Calvin
If you had that, faith would no longer be required. I know you don't uunderstand the significance of that but it is important.
The burden of proof isn't on the believer. We know the story, His word, etc.
As has been stated numerous times, the evidence is insurmountable, but that is pointless in your mind, because whatever is presented, you're going to dispute. That's fine, as your mind is closed, thus no idea why all of this bothers you to the extent it does.
Truly wanting to learn is one thing, but you're just here to argue.
Alex does a good job critically thinking through some of the evidence for Jesus' resurrection. Praying he takes that next step.
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It must be factual. The book says it’s factual. And the supporting evidence is right there in the book.
Alex O’Connor is a very impressive and articulate young man, with degrees in philosophy and theology. His WITHIN REASON podcast is excellent, I think, with many interesting guests over a wide range of topics, including free will.
In regard to his atheism, he has often communicated that he is completely open-minded and sincerely WANTS be convinced of God’s existence, but simply has not seen the evidence for such conviction. He is currently only 25, born 03/27/1999, so he has plenty of time on his journey for evidence and truth.
Raised as a Catholic, here is a video about reverting back to Christianity:
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Plenty of time? That is not the approach or wager I would dare take.
Nobody has any idea when their time is up. I am not saying Alex thinks that he has plenty of time, but it would appear as though you would.
I like Alex, have known about him long before such youtube videos become so prevalnet.
He wasn't always so open-minded. Maybe he is "completely open-minded and sincerely WANTS be convinced of God’s existence," but that would be on his terms, which is to say through reason and argument. I doubt that'll work for him, nor do I think someone should/needs to just essentially "try it out" and go through the motions like he intimates in that video... that likely won't work either, but who am I to say.
Seek God... not the "reasons" to believe. Find Him first, then you'll see the reasons are everywhere. "Your" purposeless, acausal universe from nothing is decidedly less rational than your, "dur hurr, sky daddy book says so!" dismissive and derisive nonsense.
He wasn't always so open-minded. Maybe he is "completely open-minded and sincerely WANTS be convinced of God’s existence," but that would be on his terms, which is to say through reason and argument. I doubt that'll work for him, nor do I think someone should/needs to just essentially "try it out" and go through the motions like he intimates in that video... that likely won't work either, but who am I to say.
Seek God... not the "reasons" to believe. Find Him first, then you'll see the reasons are everywhere. "Your" purposeless, acausal universe from nothing is decidedly less rational than your, "dur hurr, sky daddy book says so!" dismissive and derisive nonsense.
You make a good point, for sure. I guess mine was poorly made. My primary point is that he is young, thoughtful and a seeker.
I suspect a younger person would be expected to have more time than an older one, but you are certainly correct ... nothing is certain.
I think it's pretty cool that you were on to O'Connor early on.
He is thought-provoking, interesting and enjoyable to listen to ... his interviews are particularly engaging, I think.
I've listened to Weinstein before. I do not understand how he argues for intelligent design, yet doesn't believe in a supernatural entity. He and Jordan Peterson provide explanations and theories that are over my head. I try to follow them to develop an understanding, but cannot. I'm simply not bright enough.
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The article did not say he argued for intelligent design. It said that he acknowledged that ID scientific theory is making ground with regard to how life exists. And, it said he, like we have said before, acknowledges that the evolutionary theory that many here have said is decided and verifiable has major problems.
I think Weinstein believes ID is “cutting edge” and I do not understand how he feels that way when he does not believe in a supernatural entity. It is confusing to me. He has his reasoning, but I don’t understand it. That’s all …
Of course, it may well end up that his skepticism in Darwin evolution and further exploration into ID may lead him to change his mind regarding a supernatural entity and become convinced of God's existence. Time will tell ...
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Pew Research Center’s Religious Landscape Study report was released today … 02/26/25:
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It’s interesting that someone would think polling is relevant.
Nominal Christians are no longer so identifying. That is probably a good thing.
Nominal Christians are no longer so identifying. That is probably a good thing.
Some interesting numbers. Especially when I see numbers of Catholics. I’ll forever be amazed that anyone on this planet still identifies as a Catholic. World’s oldest crime syndicate, centuries of brutality, and thousands of confirmed cases of child rape. And, yet, people still attend and give them money.
“And when a great crowd was gathering and people from town after town came to him, he said in a parable, “A sower went out to sow his seed. And as he sowed, some fell along the path and was trampled underfoot, and the birds of the air devoured it. And some fell on the rock, and as it grew up, it withered away, because it had no moisture. And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up with it and choked it. And some fell into good soil and grew and yielded a hundredfold.” As he said these things, he called out, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.” And when his disciples asked him what this parable meant, he said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God, but for others they are in parables, so that ‘seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.’ Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. The ones along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away. And as for what fell among the thorns, they are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature. As for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patience.”
Luke 8:4-15
Luke 8:4-15
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.”
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.”
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of Absence."
He is not considering ANY evidence. He just restates phrases he has heard elsewhere, as if that is enough.
The extraordinary claim is that life started spontaneously in some primordial soup by chance and then began to replicate. He has no “extraordinary” evidence for that claim, yet he believes it.
Atheism based upon scientific "knowledge" is an aging relic of 19th and early 20th Century misconception that life, on the singular cellular level, was very simple, and sprang from such a "primordial soup," and could be made to do so in the proper lab conditions. They tried sealed systems in the late 19th Century, actually expecting that single-celled creatures would spontaneously emerge, and begin replication/reproduction/evolution, upon command.
They failed.
As the 20th Century advanced, with such advances as quantum theory in 1928, the electron microscope in 1932, slit-screen experimentation with photons and electrons (that still continue), definition/recognition of the massive complexity of DNA in all living beings (1952ish), the identification and precise measurement of the multitude of cosmological constants that allow us to exist . . . all resulted in deep, philosophical conundrums that continue and deepen by the decade. They are known by cool names and metaphors, among them "Schroedeger's Cat," and "Spooky Action at a Distance."
Hence, there are no atheists in foxholes, and fewer and fewer among the leading theorists of today.
I won't go on a YouTube video linking "binge" but there are plenty of folks in various scientific fields with lengthy videos confirming the necessity of a God the creator. And many of them seem emotionally neutral or even slightly disappointed in their conclusions, having been intellectually "brought-up" in the prior age of scientific atheism.
Atheism has become old-fashioned, and is fading by scientific necessity.
Those "of science" that still deny His existence, and those of the "religious" community that reject such things as geologic time-scales are simply two sides of the same coin: pig-headed folk who are threatened by what they view as contradictory views of existence, when in fact, they are the same thing.