Collins should not be in the market for role players at this point, given the attrition and whom is left. Every guy he looks at for a transfer needs to be a likely starter.
Possible Grad Transfer
- Thread starter Gocatsgo2003
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Collins should not be in the market for role players at this point, given the attrition and whom is left. Every guy he looks at for a transfer needs to be a likely starter.
Likely he would get plenty of minutes early in the year and then more of the bench as the season went on and underclassmen improved enough to take away his minutes.
Why? It's not exactly a Murderer's Row, but there's a decent group of guys already set to go for next year
LG: Buie, Greer
Wing: Turner, Gaines, Kopp, Nance, Beran
Big: Young, Jones
Not exactly a tournament lock, but could be at least competitive with a couple additions in the right spots.
Put them in a bubble so they don't get injuredThe eternal question, though: How do we manage to be right a little more often?
And they only take the place for a year or so so you are not handicapped for 4 years. You can then use the same spots for Frosh the following year
Bring in role players to play behind guys who haven't proven anything yet or guys who themselves are role players? Look, I said here a year ago that Ryan Young was a nice fourth or fifth recruit in a class to take a flyer on him, but going into next season with him as a possible/probable starter after zero minutes of college experience should frighten everyone. Buie and Greer are proven commodities?
No grad transfer role players. It will be a team of role players if that's the case with, hopefully, a couple young, talented exceptions, because if you think Turner and Gaines are or should be locks as starters, the aspirations here have dropped precipitously.
And exactly how many program-changing/defining grad transfers do you think are out there right now, especially ones champing at the bit to come to Northwestern?
You're putting words in my mouth. At no point did I write anything about "program changing" star transfers. I said guys who are conceivable starters. Both Pierce and Grayer, in my opinion, could start. They have enough athleticism and both are good shooters. I cannot see Andree starting.
Do you think Pierce and/or Grayer can have better seasons than Ryan Taylor did for us?
I agree with your question of why not go get some role players, but for different reasons. I'm already resigned to another tough year next year. We need a few guys to bang with in practice and provide some upperclass experience to help our young guys develop.
1. RI was not replaced by a frosh. There was an open spot for him.
2. I believe RI did get to practice a fair enough amount. I don't know for fact. Do you?
I think it might be prudent for CC to pick up a couple of grad transfers in part to space out the four year guys. It can’t be good long term to fill/refill most of your scholarships every four years, rather than two or three each year. Obviously you offer the studs you can get when they’re available, but a long term strategy has to include having a variety of freshmen, sophs, juniors and seniors every year to build and maintain some institutional knowledge on the team.
Only way this is competitive is if all the dominoes fall the right way - which is not usually the case for NU. Might as well also buy a Powerball ticket. There is no go to guy. Who takes the big shots? Hell, who even commands a double team?
More likely, a bunch prove to be sub-B1G, some proven to be worthy of supporting roles but, odds are, noone emerges as a star known throughout the league. Not next year, at least.
This is one of the (many) areas where NU is a different recipe than Duke. Where the program currently stands (as a development program), we're best served with our supporting/role players being underclassmen who are talented, but cutting their teeth in the B1G and developing physically without the pressure of being go-to guys. Those same players can go on to be primary players as upperclassmen and can be supplemented by uber-talented younger players as appropriate. It's what we do in football and what teams like Wisconsin, Iowa, and even Gonzaga regularly do in basketball. We're not currently recruiting a bevy of McD AA players who demand to all start as frosh, so we shouldn't rely upon or expect freshman to be program saviors.
So, when we bring in 5th year grad transfers to be role players, it's a program problem for a couple of different reasons. We lose the opportunity to develop young players to be those upperclassmen foundations because they are pressed into being primary players when perhaps they aren't ready to be. Sometimes that works out great (see Pardon), but sometimes they aren't physically, mentally, or emotionally read to carry that burden and it doesn't. Obviously, CCC has to do what works for where we are today, but ultimately I think he'd like to get back to developing guys a little before they have to be a primary focus.
again - after 2 years of sitting out - things go bad
Rap didn't transfer to a power
since you have spent the majority of your last 3 days pining over RI, i will again share what i know:
in his time at NU:
- RI missed the majority of freshmen year practice with shoulder injury and rehab
- RI returned for a few weeks and re-injured the same shoulder, missed most of the practices for his sophomore year
during this time it extremely difficult to be a part of a team and future plans when
- you don't practice for 2 years
- you can't develop your skill
- you have no idea how to fit in or fulfill your role
- you are a program outcast, not be design but by day to day reality because you are "not in the mix"
- coaches don't know how you fit into future plans
- the grind or rehabilitation because annoying for all involved
- confidence in a strong return as unknown
etc etc..
combine those factors with the fact that RI would now be a "big" rather than a "wing" (his skill set and physical size didn't really match up to what is needed to compete at a high level in the big ten) and he would almost certainly be behind pardon and benson in 2018/19 and behind potentially Benson, Young, Nance, and potentially who else was recruited (ie. Jones) 2019/202 AND matching up against the top 'bigs" in the big ten ten. RI could of decided to stay and roll the dice and maybe earn playing time or leave and definitely play. after not playing for 2 years in college, that was the decision. RI choose to go a route that guaranteed playing time.
NU has no regrets in their decision - they are focused on the players they have moving forward and excited for those players. RI has no regrets and is loving his experience at Colgate.
but now as NU looks at bringing in potential pieces to fit what what they currently have - there is a "movement" to say i would rather have RI... but RI was this... and RI was the player of the year and RI was...
but completely ignoring the fact that RI missed almost 2 full years and wanted to pursue guaranteed playing team
continually harping on RI is unproductive to the board because it creates unwarranted arguments when both the NU staff and RI are completely happy with the decision
Rap didn't transfer to a power
since you have spent the majority of your last 3 days pining over RI, i will again share what i know:
in his time at NU:
- RI missed the majority of freshmen year practice with shoulder injury and rehab
- RI returned for a few weeks and re-injured the same shoulder, missed most of the practices for his sophomore year
during this time it extremely difficult to be a part of a team and future plans when
- you don't practice for 2 years
- you can't develop your skill
- you have no idea how to fit in or fulfill your role
- you are a program outcast, not be design but by day to day reality because you are "not in the mix"
- coaches don't know how you fit into future plans
- the grind or rehabilitation because annoying for all involved
- confidence in a strong return as unknown
etc etc..
combine those factors with the fact that RI would now be a "big" rather than a "wing" (his skill set and physical size didn't really match up to what is needed to compete at a high level in the big ten) and he would almost certainly be behind pardon and benson in 2018/19 and behind potentially Benson, Young, Nance, and potentially who else was recruited (ie. Jones) 2019/202 AND matching up against the top 'bigs" in the big ten ten. RI could of decided to stay and roll the dice and maybe earn playing time or leave and definitely play. after not playing for 2 years in college, that was the decision. RI choose to go a route that guaranteed playing time.
NU has no regrets in their decision - they are focused on the players they have moving forward and excited for those players. RI has no regrets and is loving his experience at Colgate.
but now as NU looks at bringing in potential pieces to fit what what they currently have - there is a "movement" to say i would rather have RI... but RI was this... and RI was the player of the year and RI was...
but completely ignoring the fact that RI missed almost 2 full years and wanted to pursue guaranteed playing team
continually harping on RI is unproductive to the board because it creates unwarranted arguments when both the NU staff and RI are completely happy with the decision
need to look at either one and IF either one is interested. both should be options.
NU had a good relationship with a possible 5th year - he graduated but would not be admitted to the graduate school. there are major barriers at play even with grad transfers depending on where they go to school and what the transcripts look like.
I think he has plenty of young talent in the process of developing. So going after transfers is as much about depth as starters. That said, since many guys are transferring to get minutes, it is likely one or more might get the opportunity to start. As it is we have likely at least 3 starters lined up. Gains, Turner and Kopp at this point. Two positions we really do not know about are Center and PG, but we have potential candidates, that we do not know that much about, at both positions
I bet all five spots are open for competition. If someone comes in and beats out the incumbent, I hope CCC would get him in the lineup.
I believe it was stated several times that he really was not able to practice. He had shoulder surgery not once but twice. Every time I saw him it was in a sling. And outside of the season, there are limitations on what can be done so no he did not have plenty of practice. And during the seasons, he was in rehab
Of course all spots are open. I actually disagree with the person you quoted -- while Turner, Gaines and Kopp might all be starter-quality next year, there are really only two spots open for them. The "4" ought to be someone with a bit more height. Ideally Nance or Beran.
The key will be getting at least one immediately-eligible lead guard.
While I do not have a problem with that, on the basis of what I have seen, it is unlikely that a transfer starts over Gaines of Turner and likely not over Kopp. Of course, all three tend to play the 2 and 3 positions so ity may only be two starting positions locked up. In any event, all three are likely to get plenty of court time. At the other two positions, opportunities are likely more open
Excellent post. Logic and common sense would also help fill in the missing blanks even without the facts you presented.
I did add him to my official list, as a player NU had offered in high school, but so far hasn't been linked to as a transfer.
I echo the sentiments above that he doesn't seem like a player Collins would take on for three years. Maybe if he were a grad transfer.
Any 5th year transfers should be brought in as backups not starters. We are rebuilding and can use transfer depth this year, but the quality minutes should belong to the those who have more than one year to play.
Because every potential transfer is going to resonate to the pitch, "Hey, we're just bringing you in as a potential backup. Don't even THINK about getting a shot to win a starting job."
Sorry, it kills the sales pitch. Trying to bring in someone who is looking to get more minutes would be running the other way
No.
At lead guard. NU needs a veteran presence on a team that as of now only has two upperclassmen. Greer/Buie are, as of now, decent backups at best in this league.
Also we have virtually no idea if Ryan Young or Jared Jones will be ready for 30 minutes per game at center in the Big Ten, thus bringing in a guy like Brunk who can start and play 20-25 minutes makes a lot of sense. The other 15-20 mostly go to whichever guy is more Big Ten-ready.