proponents of 8 classes
- Thread starter JCHILLTOPPERS
- Start date
Obviously, the only people happy with the games today are fans of the winners. However, it is very lame to complain about the 4 games played today and claim that 8 classes are the cause. How about looking at the previous 112 championship games played in the 8 class system. You will find tons of competitive games.
Why? Because they won convincingly. I am pretty sure that BMAC was subject to the multiplier and was placed in 3A based on their enrollment.
sundown, are you happy with 8 classes? do you really think IL needs 8 classes. Yesterday, and it's results, are not my only argument, but they do illustrate the point. Today, you are likely to have at least one more big win.
We just do not have enough good teams for 8 classes.
The only ones who would be adversely affected by going to six classes would be the 1,700 to 2,000 enrollment schools now in 6 and 7A. They would move to the largest or "super heavy" class to compete against those schools with one to two thousand more students. No way to totally eliminate that though as being the smallest school in the unlimited class is a big disadvantage.
14-12,28-0,41-8,48-13,31-7,56-31 / 14-0,35-14,41-13,27-14,38-12,27-8
Those are the scores of the championship games from 1999 and 2000 the last 2 years of 6 classes...3 games out of 12 were within 2 scores at the end.
In comparison in 2013 and 2014, 10 of the 16 games finished with the final score being within two scores at the end.
So what is the answer? Why do we really even care? If you have more than 1 class in any of the sports you never really have a true champion....I've said all along to go back to the way it was in the 70's where only the conference champions get into the playoffs,but then people complain that many good teams don't get into the playoffs.Ok,so why should we care if there are 8 classes?
Those are the scores of the championship games from 1999 and 2000 the last 2 years of 6 classes...3 games out of 12 were within 2 scores at the end.
In comparison in 2013 and 2014, 10 of the 16 games finished with the final score being within two scores at the end.
So what is the answer? Why do we really even care? If you have more than 1 class in any of the sports you never really have a true champion....I've said all along to go back to the way it was in the 70's where only the conference champions get into the playoffs,but then people complain that many good teams don't get into the playoffs.Ok,so why should we care if there are 8 classes?
Wish privates would compete separately. Stop all this privates recruiting crap once and for all.
Since you ask, I was against 8 classes when it started in 2001. However, since it is now 2015 I do not spend any time complaining about it. I accept it as reality. I strongly doubt we will ever go back to 6 classes. Also, we now have 4 classes in baseball, volleyball, basketball....those changes were made more recently and have also had a huge impact. Honestly, I doubt there is any interest on the part of the IHSA in reducing the number of classes. It seems to be a much bigger issue with message board fans than the actual people it impacts.
Well if they were a 16 seed, which could be confirmed based on record & playoff points, they would have had a second round date with Loyola.
I think it would take more than just trying hard to beat the number one team in the state. Last year's team could have competed with anyone.
If SHG and Montini aren't bumped up I think Nazareth stays in 6a correct? Trade out two power privates for one seems like a fair trade for the publics.
I liked the 6 class system - there is something to be said about needing 6 wins to get in the playoffs versus backing in at 1 game over .500. I agree though - IHSA is not reducing.
Forgetting monkeying more with multipliers & SF for a second... What about using a subjective 1-4 seeding for each class? Let someone(s) who actually knows IHSA FB tag the best 4 teams in each class regardless of their records to avoid those 2nd/3rd round "state title games". You seed everything else 5-32 with the normal IHSA record / playoff point formats from there. Should promote more competitive state title matchups more than the current system. You could also only implement this in the top 4-5 classes where SOS really skews seedings.
Only downside is you may have to geographically mis-align those top 4 seeds to keep them separated. Since you are only subjectively seeding 4 teams hopefully you avoid to much yelling & screaming about those rankings and if you were a team that fell to the 5-32 traditional seeding mechanism you can always prove it on the field.
Looking at this years playoffs I think we'd push back at least the following matchups to semis or finals:
8A: LA/HF in round 3 (I'd guess both these would be top 4)
7A: GW/MC in round 2 (think MC would have a great case for top 4)
6A: Don't see much change
5A: Naz/JCA in quarters (probably easy top 2)
Forgetting monkeying more with multipliers & SF for a second... What about using a subjective 1-4 seeding for each class? Let someone(s) who actually knows IHSA FB tag the best 4 teams in each class regardless of their records to avoid those 2nd/3rd round "state title games". You seed everything else 5-32 with the normal IHSA record / playoff point formats from there. Should promote more competitive state title matchups more than the current system. You could also only implement this in the top 4-5 classes where SOS really skews seedings.
Only downside is you may have to geographically mis-align those top 4 seeds to keep them separated. Since you are only subjectively seeding 4 teams hopefully you avoid to much yelling & screaming about those rankings and if you were a team that fell to the 5-32 traditional seeding mechanism you can always prove it on the field.
Looking at this years playoffs I think we'd push back at least the following matchups to semis or finals:
8A: LA/HF in round 3 (I'd guess both these would be top 4)
7A: GW/MC in round 2 (think MC would have a great case for top 4)
6A: Don't see much change
5A: Naz/JCA in quarters (probably easy top 2)
Couldn't agree more. It's tough to compete in 5A and 6A classes with the catholic schools. When you get into much larger classes the sheer size of public schools allow them to be more competitive. It's proven that publics can't beat Naz, JCA, or Montini.
While it's flattering for Naz to be held in such high regard, they are only two seasons removed from being bested in the quarters or earlier, often by public schools. This has been an incredible two year run, but they haven't exactly "proven" they can't be beat in 5 and 6A. JCA is also, what 8 years removed from a title (not sure if they've been eliminated more from publics or privates)
Snetsrak,
I agree with you on some things here but JCA has been eliminated by Privates...mostly Montini but this year Naz. You are right that Naz is only a short timer in this club for sure but what some fear is that Racki is at the start of a run not an end. I'm not sure which way it will go but next season should be a determiner. What I do know is that the last two years teams could run with anyone in the state and beat most if not all on any given day. Running the full guanlet in the bigger conferences might be tough because of team size(numbers of players not sizes or measurables).
I've decided to just call and apple an apple and while I don't think anyone could have beat Loyola on a consistent basis in the state this year, there are several teams that could and have pushed them to the limit. I've got people telling me that no way Naz could beat GBW, but I differ on the topic deeply and feel that they would beat them consistently and soundly after watching them play 6 games this season either live or online. Of course people will disagree but the board is a place for opinions and while we might not always agree you like I am entitled to present ideas.
I can't wait till next season starts and bad news for the posters here that I annoy...I've got kids in school at Naz playing ball until at least 2020! You've been warned.
I agree with you on some things here but JCA has been eliminated by Privates...mostly Montini but this year Naz. You are right that Naz is only a short timer in this club for sure but what some fear is that Racki is at the start of a run not an end. I'm not sure which way it will go but next season should be a determiner. What I do know is that the last two years teams could run with anyone in the state and beat most if not all on any given day. Running the full guanlet in the bigger conferences might be tough because of team size(numbers of players not sizes or measurables).
I've decided to just call and apple an apple and while I don't think anyone could have beat Loyola on a consistent basis in the state this year, there are several teams that could and have pushed them to the limit. I've got people telling me that no way Naz could beat GBW, but I differ on the topic deeply and feel that they would beat them consistently and soundly after watching them play 6 games this season either live or online. Of course people will disagree but the board is a place for opinions and while we might not always agree you like I am entitled to present ideas.
I can't wait till next season starts and bad news for the posters here that I annoy...I've got kids in school at Naz playing ball until at least 2020! You've been warned.
@jwarigaku
Great choice in school for your children! I was happy to see your son have the game he had Saturday. He is a heck of an athlete and definitely made an impact on the game. I think I am even happier he will be back for one more year along with the rest of his classmates on this year's team.
Great choice in school for your children! I was happy to see your son have the game he had Saturday. He is a heck of an athlete and definitely made an impact on the game. I think I am even happier he will be back for one more year along with the rest of his classmates on this year's team.
I agree next year would go a long way in determining what the Naz program is. Another state title win and maybe Racki has built another Driscoll that basically can't be beat. A quarters exit, then it was a dominate two year run and Naz is just another strong program with up and down years like many strong public and private programs.
This year's team... while I think they could compete against any team, I wouldn't give them the favorite against the top large programs. Last year's team is a different story. I think Edgys year end rankings are pretty fair and reflect the relative strength of each. (Believe they were 3rd last year and probably a 50/50 toss up against 1 and 2)
I don't think that should take anything away from this year's team. To still take state even with those odds and rebounding from two losses is a big testament to those young men, and they certainly are accomplishing big things in LaGrange Park under Racki. Even those quarterfinal exit teams I was very proud of. Racki is building strong football players and strong young men.
This year's team... while I think they could compete against any team, I wouldn't give them the favorite against the top large programs. Last year's team is a different story. I think Edgys year end rankings are pretty fair and reflect the relative strength of each. (Believe they were 3rd last year and probably a 50/50 toss up against 1 and 2)
I don't think that should take anything away from this year's team. To still take state even with those odds and rebounding from two losses is a big testament to those young men, and they certainly are accomplishing big things in LaGrange Park under Racki. Even those quarterfinal exit teams I was very proud of. Racki is building strong football players and strong young men.
JCA's last title was in 2007. In 2008, they were eliminated by Provi. In 2010, it was Peoria Richwoods. This year it was Naz and the five other years was Montini.
I still can't believe that since 2007 JCA hasn't won. Just to think of all the talent they have had and how many big time names in the backfield that are contributing at the next level.
From JCA's perspective, too bad Coach Weis' son transferred to Naz and didn't remain a Hilltopper in 2012 eh? Coach Weis could have lent his expertise to fix that archaic scheme and diverted the Patriot pipeline to JCA. Ah....but at what cost to the program?
You have a better chance of getting hit by an airplane than a Patriot player ever walking in the doors of JCA now or in the future. That I know for certain.
It does get better for you however. I am aware a new youth program opening in JCA area is coming.
Had to be a cessna. Nobody can throw within those walls.
You have a better chance on getting hit by an airplane than a patriot player ever walking threw JCA's doors.that I know for certain.Now or in the future.And it gets better I'm aware of a new youth program opening up in The JCA area by guess who?