PSU - Nebraska '26 Match Thread
- Thread starter Tom McAndrew
- Start date
Sorry, I did review this on Sunday or Monday, but never posted about it.
This is really close to a TD. IF PJ holds him down for a bit, it's a no brainer. But Antrell bounces up pretty quickly and turns so he's facing PJ. If you focus on just covering Antrell's hips on the attempted TD, you might be inclined to think it's a TD. But the refs are instructed to hold the calls to ensure that control is established. And control really was not established by PJ.
Some have claimed in this thread that there is no reaction time given to the defensive wrestler. That was the case for a few years in college, but that rule was changed.
I try to remind folks that I'm not a college wrestling ref. But I know quite a few of them, and am constantly asking them about rule changes in college, showing them videos asking them about the call, etc., and also read the college rule book and case manual extensively, as being a HS ref does train you how to properly understand those books.
So, IMHO, the ref in the match was correct, and this was not a TD.
My thought when I saw the replays on TV as the refs were reviewing it was that it was so close that it could have been called either way and there would be no overrule no matter what the original call was. I think that if PJ had let go of the ankle and gotten that hand around the waist instead, it would have been a TD no doubt, but as it stood, he really didn't have control of the waist and that allowed Taylor to bounce right back up and out.
He did have the waist/hip covered with the left hand. Taylor landed on his left hand and knee, he didn't come right back up but moved his knee initially a smidge to the right then moved both his knee and hand to the left for a wider base, but still not up. Finally he rotates his left lower leg out and rocks back and up. If PJ doesn't let him regain his feet at that point it is pretty much a certainty he gets the TD. In this case reaction time involved at least 4 limb repositions and a 5th movement of his body to regain his footing. I am struggling to agree 5 movements is the definition of "reaction time."
Thanks Tom. Any thoughts on potential backpoints during the first ride out period. If you slow it down and watch the clock during the sequence it was closer to 3 seconds than 1?
that's tougher for me to review, as the camera angle that BTN showed doesn't really give a good look. If I remember correctly, Duke took him down, then Antrell hits a roll, then Duke had him at @ 90 degrees, then Duke used a crossface or something with his right arm to try to tilt Antrell. At that point, Antrell does tilt a bit, but the TV camera was showing the opposite side of Antrell, with PJ on top of him. Antrell's shoulders appeared to be less than 90 degrees -- I'm just not sure if they were in criteria. The ref was in perfect position and didn't award any NF points (and told Duke that after the out-of-bounds call). It's possible that Antrell was in criteria for a short time, but not 2 full sec. -- I just don't know.
Has a video been posted that shows the sequence from the other side of the mat?
I know this. My own 'negative' reaction time to Antrel's reaction time, was so quick, I should have been given points.
In part, that's why I wrote that "This is really close to a TD." But I think you're focusing on the wrong method of evaluation. Control is the key thing to look for. If PJ holds Antrell down for a bit (assuming he doesn't hit a roll, a switch, or something along those lines), then it would be a TD. Looking at the different parts of Antrell's body, and what they did (and in slow motion), and evaluating things in terms of reaction time, doesn't give you the big picture of what's taking place. In essence, Antrell is taken to the mat, and before being controlled in that position he stands up and turns into PJ.
Think of it in these terms. A wrestler on the bottom is considered a defensive wrestler (i.e., the top or offensive wrestler has control). If the defensive wrestler hits a granby roll, their shoulders or scapula probably do touch the mat while they are still technically under control of the offensive wrestler. And having those body parts touching the mat is pretty much the definition of what a pin is. In slow motion, it certainly can look like a pin should be called. But a pin is not awarded to the top wrestler because they don't stop the defensive wrestler at the point where their shoulders/scapula are touching the mat and hold their back to the mat. Similarly, while many of the aspects of a TD were attained by PJ in the sequence in question, because he didn't establish control of Antrell, the TD was not awarded.
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They no longer had a brick.
@Coastal2 Because the ref was slow to get around and annouce danger before beginming to count. There has to be a verbal indication to the defending wrestler before counting.
Additionally, it looked like Antrel briefly got back to 90° or beyond it towards his belly after the two count to restart the count for an additional one.
So not less than 90° for a 3 count after verbal announcement means no neutral danger takedown awarded.
That's how I understand neutral danger works and saw it called.
It can be very difficult to get a "danger" TD when you don't have solid control of your opponent in a scramble. All it takes is your opponent being able to momentarily get themselves beyond ninety degrees and the three count starts over again. And since the count is verbal, a wrestler will know when to exert that extra effort to momentarily get beyond ninety degrees.
The question was the back points 10 seconds or so into the first RO period. No danger, no announcing, not 90 degrees. The backpoints count should have started as soon as the ref could determine there was back exposure. Close, but not sure.
Yeah , PJ was on top then. No danger rule in that situation. The count was close, and I could see them overturning it on review. Heck, if the ref was in position….
This wasn't a danger TD. Taylor chose bottom so Duke was in control. The "danger" announcement isn't needed.
Shoulder blades not within 45° for more than 2 consecutive seconds (referee counts), for that one. TV angle doesn't really help throughout sequence. Ref gives one and a half, but not two full swipes. That much is clear from the TV angle.
What do you think the reason is?
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I watched that several times. There isn't a great angle to see exactly when a count should have started and ended. The 1 and a half swipes can be attributed to several things. My objectivity is rather limited because I watched this guy ref 2 matches and and I haven't been overly impressed.
So, the 1 and a half swipes. My guess is he was swiping the second time and Taylor came out of the exposed situation before the ref felt it was a full 2 seconds and stopped.
Taylor wasn't exposed very long, and the TV angle does not provide a good enough view to know if the ref was slow to begin his count or not.
The rematch will be a little different.
I would imagine that people have now seen the photo where Taylor is positively flat on his back. It looks good, but it did happen quickly and I'm not suggesting that Taylor was decked. Still........
I just want the refs to do their job and call stalls when they should be called!
The funny thing about that sequence was that the Ref gave an audible 3 Count of Taylor in danger position. The Ref then seemed to call the TD after verbally stating the 3rd Count.... then immediately waived it off with his hands saying no takedown as if he changed his mind on the 3rd Count - it was a very, very strange sequence where Official seemed to call the TD after the 3rd Count... and then "No TD" all within a couple seconds of each other.
Just to clarify, PJ was on top during that sequence—the count would have been for back points, not a danger rule takedown.
Maybe it was a different match - I can't remember. But at the very end of a period, the Official in the Nebraska Dual made a Danger 3 Count on a UNL wrestler, went to award the TD.... then seemed to change his mind after making the audible 3 Count and started waving his arms saying no takedown despite his clear 3 Count. It was right at the end of a period.
you're welcome to your opinion. But re-read what I wrote. Focusing on reaction time is taking you down the wrong path. It wasn't a factor in this sequence. Control is what you need to focus on, and control was not established by PJ.
not my point..... I dont disagree with you... but I am saying that he is slowly getting into better and better shape and she he does.... watch out... He will make a serous run at a NC.... This was not belitting or disparaging to PJ in any way... it was simply saying that I am not over concerned as he is wrestling through some training right now.... and will peak in March!