PSU Without Shoop

[GlideCat]

With Bob Shoop (PSU DC) reportedly interviewing in the SEC (and considering not much else to talk about), what happens to PSU if they lose Shoop?

Last two seasons they had a highly touted but underperforming quarterback who apparently is gone to the NFL.

Last two seasons they had a poor O Line for pass protection that seemed to be making some strides in run blocking.

Last two seasons they appeared to be carried by their defense.

How much of that was Shoop and how much was simply personnel? If he loses Shoop, can Franklin make the defense work with any reasonable DC based on the personnel he has or could there be a noticeable drop-off?

Overall would losing Shoop coupled with losing their starting quarterback make the overall PSU team suffer a major negative change next season? Or is Franklin a good enough coach to keep the ship moving with these changes?

 

[shakes3858]

PSU could be down. OSU should be down without Elliot, Bosa, Washington, Miller, Ash and Herman last year. MSU should be down another year removed from Narduzzi, and Cook, Conklin, Allen, Calhoun, and Burr Bridge

Big ten could be wide open next year.

 

[mybrotha]

PSU could be down. OSU should be down without Elliot, Bosa, Washington, Miller, Ash and Herman last year. MSU should be down another year removed from Narduzzi, and Cook, Conklin, Allen, Calhoun, and Burr Bridge

Big ten could be wide open next year.

Yes I agree Shakes! Especially the loss of Cook at MSU. I think OSU just re-tools, but QBs don't just grow on trees.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I'm gonna be cheering for you guys to take the B10 by storm next year! I think you have the opportunity and tools to win your division, because I believe your young QB will grow by leaps and bounds this off-season (he needs help at WR). Just gotta figure out a way to get by Ohio State in the cg.

p.s. Shoop to Tennessee confirmed about an hour and a half ago.

 

[della]

I'm gonna be cheering for you guys to take the B10 by storm next year! I think you have the opportunity and tools to win your division, because I believe your young QB will grow by leaps and bounds this off-season (he needs help at WR). Just gotta figure out a way to get by Ohio State in the cg.

p.s. Shoop to Tennessee confirmed about an hour and a half ago.

Shoop there it is, Shoop there it is...

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Now they lost their OL coach Hand to Auburn. Waiting for Shakes to post pictures of Shoop and Hand's wife.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Now they lost their OL coach Hand to Auburn. Waiting for Shakes to post pictures of Shoop and Hand's wife.

I wonder if people are bailing because they know the classes coming in are not going to right this ship with such a crappy head coach. They must not like working for him because it's hard to imagine PSU is not paying well enough.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I wonder if people are bailing because they know the classes coming in are not going to right this ship with such a crappy head coach. They must not like working for him because it's hard to imagine PSU is not paying well enough.

Brady Hoke had great recruiting classes too. Just saying.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Brady Hoke had great recruiting classes too. Just saying.

Exactly. It seems like Franklin's assistants know that something is just not going to work there in Happy Valley and maybe it's because the coach is a weasel.

 

[Sheffielder]

Exactly. It seems like Franklin's assistants know that something is just not going to work there in Happy Valley and maybe it's because the coach is a weasel.

This. I sincerely believe James Franklin will go down as one of the most overhyped coaches of the past 10 or so years. Overperformed as an offensive coordinator and recruiter; underwhelming as a head coach. Know your role. See also: Lane Kiffin.

 

[wicker]

Some Pa writers are saying this is SOP throughout college football but it is more noticeable at PSU because its rare for them. So in that view nothing is wrong at Penn State

 

[GlideCat]

Some Pa writers are saying this is SOP throughout college football but it is more noticeable at PSU because its rare for them. So in that view nothing is wrong at Penn State

I agree that it is SOP for coordinators and assistants to move up from lesser programs to larger programs for better opportunities. PSU to UT is, at best, a lateral move. I do not know the pay at UT but I doubt it is markedly higher than PSU. They are putting lipstick on a pig.

 

[shakes3858]

Now they lost their OL coach Hand to Auburn. Waiting for Shakes to post pictures of Shoop and Hand's wife.

Umm... ok... You can seriously google these things for yourself. I only put the pictures in as evidence when I'm making a point... the point I made was James Franklin doesn't have a hot wife. But here you go:

Maura Shoop

Debbie Hand

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I agree that it is SOP for coordinators and assistants to move up from lesser programs to larger programs for better opportunities. PSU to UT is, at best, a lateral move. I do not know the pay at UT but I doubt it is markedly higher than PSU. They are putting lipstick on a pig.

"at best," Glide? Ouch, that hurts.

I would agree with "lateral move," historically speaking, without an "at best" thrown in. The two programs are pretty much peers in the history books:

Program Founded:
1887 -- Penn State
1891 -- Tennessee

Total Wins & All-Time Winning %:
#10 -- Penn State (856 wins, 68.5% all-time winning percentage)
#12 -- Tennessee (820 wins, 68% all-time winning percentage)

Bowl Games:
#5 -- Tennessee (51 bowl appearances)
#9 -- Penn State (46 bowl appearances)

Claimed National Championships:
#16 (tie) -- Tennessee (7 ... 2 from AP)
#16 (tie) -- Penn State (7 ... 2 from AP)

But that's all historical. As they stand today, with the SEC's dominance over the past decade+ and Penn State's scandal which deeply tarnished their reputation (at least for this generation), one would have to say that it's a bit of a move up. I hope that's not my orange glasses talking, I want to believe I'm seeing this fairly objectively.


p.s. Shoop's pay at Penn State was rumored to be right at $1M/year. His pay at Tennessee is $1.15M/year. So not a huge increase in pay. Think he surely had multiple reasons for deciding to come to Tennessee, and pay raise was likely not one of the top criteria. He could've gotten more from Auburn or LSU, but turned them both down.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Much obliged. Didn't want to step on any toes here.

 

[TSH]

PSU is a sinking ship. When a coordinator is willing to pay his own buyout just to get out of town, things are headed in a very bad direction. I would venture to guess PSU will not be a very good team over the next 3 years.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

PSU is a sinking ship. When a coordinator is willing to pay his own buyout just to get out of town, things are headed in a very bad direction. I would venture to guess PSU will not be a very good team over the next 3 years.

They also have like 5 players elect not to come back. Let's see new OC, new DC, new OL coach. Never is James though, find a scape goat or two or three.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Shoop's pay at Penn State was rumored to be right at $1M/year. His pay at Tennessee is $1.15M/year. So not a huge increase in pay. Think he surely had multiple reasons for deciding to come to Tennessee, and pay raise was likely not one of the top criteria. He could've gotten more from Auburn or LSU, but turned them both down.

Don't forget the $800K buyout. I think he sees Tennessee as a program on the rise, which is reasonable, and PSU as a sinking ship that Franklin himself might not survive. These guys might see the writing on the wall and they're giving up now.

This is just entirely conjecture but look at the way Franklin coached at Vandy. His players were completely undisciplined and some highly-touted recruits just didn't seem to care about winning. Frankling got out at the ideal time, right before the rape trial and right before the 'Dores' SEC schedule increased in difficulty. Look also at Hackenberg not even bothering to thank Franklin at all in his statement to the press upon entering the NFL Draft.

There's a yucky taste in the mouth over there in Happy Valley--and it's Vanderbilt backwash.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Some Pa writers are saying this is SOP throughout college football but it is more noticeable at PSU because its rare for them. So in that view nothing is wrong at Penn State

It's rare because Paterno was an institution and his staff were guaranteed to return every year. There was no reason to seek other employment, especially a lateral move. These coaches exiting the Nittany Lion program are doing it as a pre-emptive move because the program could be headed for a clean slate firing in the next year or two.

(As I'm saying that, we'll find that James Franklin is about to be the next Eagles HC and those guys didn't want to coach in the NFL. Kidding... I think.)

 

[GlideCat]

"at best," Glide? Ouch, that hurts.

After I wrote that, I debated lifting it out but basically asked myself the question "If I asked someone in Oregon which program was higher placed between PSU and UT, what would they say?" My answer was that most would say PSU. I could be wrong.

Thank you for disobeying the primary rule of posting which states that you should always avoid the main premise of a post if you can find some tiny thing to disagree with.

So, with your additional information, we call this a lateral move as far as public perception with a 15% pay increase. I don't believe that a coordinator who works well with his HC and sees his program as being on the rise makes that move.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Sorry, I thought my comments contributed directly to the main question of the thread. If Bob Shoop were making a lateral (at best) move, one would have to ask what else was going on ... what was pushing him away, in particular, since there wouldn't seem to be a lot pulling him toward any particular upgrade.

If, on the other hand, the move were from a program in a kind of purgatory, one just coming out of heavy sanctions, to join an equally proud program but one that was resurgent, a program moving into a position to challenge for championships, one might imagine a whole lot more of the pulling forces. Consequently, the move would provide little to no evidence of negative forces pushing him away.

To make that point, I had to correct a B10-centric view of Penn State vs Tennessee.

I don't think Penn State's coaching staff is falling apart at the seams, much as I might wish that for James Franklin. I think Bob Shoop just wanted to be part of something exciting, something that's building fast toward a pretty good place.

 

[GlideCat]

Sorry, I thought my comments contributed directly to the main question of the thread.

They did. My thanks was not sarcastic. It is simply a poorly worded sentence on my part that is similar to a double negative.

The coaching staff that restores PSU to greatness will be kings to their fan base. Just like at UT. In addition, the athletic department at PSU has not fired a football head coach in over 40 years even during multiple down years. I feel that Shoop would have to feel very confident that UT had a much greater chance of returning to greatness than PSU.

You view that as positive for UT. I understand that but cannot agree that there is not a strong negative statement toward PSU. Especially toward Shoop's opinion of their immediate future success.

 

[PaCat]

They also have like 5 players elect not to come back. Let's see new OC, new DC, new OL coach. Never is James though, find a scape goat or two or three.

This morning's Philadelphia Inquirer reports that there are now 7 players who started at least one game for PSU last year who have elected not to come back. I have lost track of who they all are, but I know most recently linebacker, Troy Reeder, receiver Eugene Lewis and running back Akeel Lynch have all announced they won't be back. Perhaps related to some of this are tweets from Lewis' father critical of Franklin and his staff.

 

[shakes3858]

This morning's Philadelphia Inquirer reports that there are now 7 players who started at least one game for PSU last year who have elected not to come back. I have lost track of who they all are, but I know most recently linebacker, Troy Reeder, receiver Eugene Lewis and running back Akeel Lynch have all announced they won't be back. Perhaps related to some of this are tweets from Lewis' father critical of Franklin and his staff.

This Eugene Lewis, what is he going to be doing next year... and can he break man coverage?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

This morning's Philadelphia Inquirer reports that there are now 7 players who started at least one game for PSU last year who have elected not to come back. I have lost track of who they all are, but I know most recently linebacker, Troy Reeder, receiver Eugene Lewis and running back Akeel Lynch have all announced they won't be back. Perhaps related to some of this are tweets from Lewis' father critical of Franklin and his staff.

Franklin preaches "family" and loyalty" to get them in the door, but sure doesn't seem they leave as family. Let's not forget Hack's slam by thanking everybody but James out the door. This school as 7-6 written on them every year with James at the helm and the alum will soon want to know why with all of these top 20 classes he can't compete for the division title.

 

[PaCat]

This Eugene Lewis, what is he going to be doing next year... and can he break man coverage?

Reports have Lewis going to Oklahoma next year.

 

[shakes3858]

Reports have Lewis going to Oklahoma next year.

That doesn't help our WR corp.

 

[DaCat]

Did these assistants follow him over from Vandy?

 

[curtis b.]

Exactly. It seems like Franklin's assistants know that something is just not going to work there in Happy Valley and maybe it's because the coach is a weasel.

that is half right, though he has turned down some other big offers. he left for TENNESSEE i think half what you said and half for the personnel we have returning next year.

 

[wicker]

Did these assistants follow him over from Vandy?

Donovan and Shoop did. A couple others from VU are still with him