Public School Multiplier or Success Factor Needed

[ramblinman_rivals165935]

Since the 1972-73 academic year, NO private school has been champs or runners up in girls bowling. Even though the 2014-15 championships are this weekend, there is no chance that the streak will be broken.

Why?

Because, of the 20 private schools competing in girls bowling regionals this year, only two of them made it to sectionals (the top four teams from each regional qualify), Of the two who made it to a sectional, none of them qualified for the finals this weekend.

Going back just five years, there have been 120 girls bowling teams that have qualified for the state finals. Of those, only two of have been from private schools.

Obviously, there must be something about the bus routes that, year after year, drop off all these stud bowlers at public schools and completely bypass private schools. This dominance by public schools in girls bowling is obviously due to the way that all public schools comprise their enrollments vs. the way that private schools comprise theirs.

There is no other option, therefore, but to multiply the public schools. Private schools demand a level bowling alley!

 

[Lockport Dad]

Girls bowling is a single class sport. What good would a multiplier or success factor do. Maybe the privates should get better coaching and work harder.

 

[Amish_2]

I've seen this argument before. The idea that publics dominate sports like Badminton and Gymnastics and therefore the privates do not have an advantage with their 30 mile recruiting radius and selective enrollments. I don't think this line of thought holds much water.

As an aside, I'm going to define 'money' sport as one which will bring a school popularity, free advertisement in the media, prestige for winning and recognition and scholarships to their participants mostly through actions taken with the school.

First of all where is Mt. Carmel's Girls Bowling team that competes against the publics? They don't have one because they are all boys. So right there the comparison to 'money' sports like Football and Baseball don't hold water because not all privates are even able to compete in Girls Bowling. However the vast majority have boys and thus can compete in the 'money' sports.

Second privates are no dummy. They are going to emphasis the 'money' sports that bring in popularity, prestige, recognition and scholarships for their players. The other sports, like Bowling, Gymnastics, etc... are not on the sports page in the regular season. they barely register a paragraph from the top newspapers during their state championship finals. 'Money' sports such as Football and Baseball bring in free advertisement much more regularly in the papers. Those sports are more popular and there is an economic incentive to compete favorably in those sports for the private schools. There is no economic incentive to compete favorably in Gymnastics or Girls Bowling.

Privates have limited resources to put towards athletic endeavors and it is most logical to concentrate on those activities which will generate the highest return on their investments.

 

[LPCoachDB]

The lack of success probably results from the private school parents spending all of that money on tuition. Not a lot of dollars left to pay for lines of bowling so the kids are at a disadvantage when compared to the public "keglers" who get much more practice.

 

[ramblinman_rivals165935]

Originally posted by Lockport Dad:
Maybe the privates should get better coaching and work harder.

Why when it is so much easier, and since the precedence has already been set, to blame the successful schools because of what type of school they are?

 

[MWittman]

HEAVY SARCASM.................

ramblinman:

You are creating an abstraction where none existed prior. This is (girl's) bowling: It's a harmless manifestation of youthful spirits.

Do you think the IHSA, an intellectually-adrift organization of unimaginable incompetence, dubious impartiality and massive organizational and managerial ineffectiveness, could actually posture itself as an agent of change bent on bringing about fairness to competition based on a vital lie?

No.................Never.

 

[Lockport Dad]

Originally posted by ramblinman:

Originally posted by Lockport Dad:
Maybe the privates should get better coaching and work harder.

Why when it is so much easier, and since the precedence has already been set, to blame the successful schools because of what type of school they are?

Sounds like creating separate public and private leagues is the answer then.

 

[GMAN81]

Man you know it's off season when we have people talking about girls bowling, badminton, gymnastics and such. Who in hell cares?

 

[BretEpic]

Originally posted by Dr. Mirakle:
Man you know it's off season when we have people talking about girls bowling, badminton, gymnastics and such. Who in hell cares?

Shhhhhhh... The Hersher fans might be listening. EVERYTHING is meaningful in HS sports!!! Even meaningless first round games...

 

[Wilmington77]

Meaningless is a relative term.

That game generated quite a bit of hype on this message board.

I will say that the general consensus here is that it DID seem to become less meaningful after the outcome was decided....

 

[Wilmington77]

And I agree with the original poster. All public girls bowling teams should automatically be put into the highest classification. I suggest a 10x multiplier.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

If Mac beat Herscher that game is still being talked about on this message board, but that didn't happen and now its meaningless... And how many 1A-4A games have been mentioned on this board in the last 3 months?? Any?? Oh yeah, a meaningless game...

 

[HHSTigerFan]

And yes ramblin, you are a genius wanting a multiplier in a one class sport...

 

[ramblinman_rivals165935]

Originally posted by HHSTigerFan:
And yes ramblin, you are a genius

 

[1111SouthFirst]

This string reminds me of a girl I went out with in high school. This was in the mid 70s. She was on her high school's bowling team and they won the state championship, but the school was reluctant to put up their state championship team picture on the school's athletic wall of fame. Finally they put it up, but not in the most timely manner Times have changed, now the school would be making them replicas of the state championship trophies.

 

[Cross Bones]

I agree with ramblinman, private schools appear unable to compete for the girls bowling championship. A split is in order so that private school girls bowling teams are playing like competition.

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

Rambl,

i wish i saved my post from last off-season, i think i am going to have to do the math again...

When looking at football, i think 99 percent of casual football fans and probably 80 percent of the fans like us who follow hs ftb closely, would be absolutely astounded by how few teams in IL actually compete for a title in IL. I'm going to have to do this again because when you look at it, it absolutely blows the argument of needing a success

There are something like 10 private schools that really ever have a chance of winning a title and maybe 20 publics. That is is! And, that number might be high. Think about that, all the high schools in this state, at most, 30 have a chance to win a title...and when you look at it more closer, remove the blind squirrel, and look at how many teams have a chance of winning back to back titles, that number falls to some absolutely stupid percentage like .05 of IL schools....

There is no distinct advantage, for either public's or privates. there is a perceived advantage because so few teams even have a chance in hell of winning a title, a small few of those are private and a slightly bigger number are public....as a result, because the number of privates that have a chance is slimmer, it looks like those schools have an advantage over the publics, but in reality, the publics are jsut spread out over a slightly smaller number of teams.


I'll do the math again. it's bad and embarrassing.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

So about 20% of the private schools have a legit chance and about 3% of the public schools...

 

[Lockport Dad]

Lockport wins state championship in girls bowling.

 

[Wassup13_rivals219252]

How about a handicap being instead of a multiplier one team gets 8 pins to start instead of 10?

or use the color pins for the handicap team and when a color pin is in the front the team gets double points for the frame?

or the non-handicap team has to deliver the ball through the legs on each approach.

If were going to have multiplier's and handicap's, let's get more creative with this and make it fun.

===

For football, when the non-multiplier team gets the ball on offense, they have the option to have both teams take off the pads and go summer 7 on 7 style football

Wassup









This post was edited on 2/22 10:27 AM by Wassup13

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

Sure, if you want to be argumentative, instead of genuinely trying to get to the bottom of an issue.

Percentages only have any semblance on reality if the sample size is the same. It's really very basic logic.

Ie. If there are 20 schools out of 100 that can win state, they represent 20 percent.

However, if there are 4 schools out of 10 that can win state, those 4 represent a class of 40 persent.

So when you combine the two...comeon, as I write this I realize there can be only 2 reasons for your respone, (1 you really don't get basic logic or (2 you are a true troll. It's too simple for you to have responded with such a poor use of logic and reasoning.

 

[mc140]

Originally posted by JCHILLTOPPERS:
Sure, if you want to be argumentative, instead of genuinely trying to get to the bottom of an issue.

Percentages only have any semblance on reality if the sample size is the same. It's really very basic logic.

Ie. If there are 20 schools out of 100 that can win state, they represent 20 percent.

However, if there are 4 schools out of 10 that can win state, those 4 represent a class of 40 persent.

So when you combine the two...comeon, as I write this I realize there can be only 2 reasons for your respone, (1 you really don't get basic logic or (2 you are a true troll. It's too simple for you to have responded with such a poor use of logic and reasoning.

It really is simple. If you are a Catholic school you need a generous Alumni base or big donor to be successful on the state level.

If you are a public school you need a constant stream of transfers or move ins unless you are upper middle class and nowhere near a private school. An administration that will look the other way when 4 d1 players use the same address also helps.

If a CCL power got bored and wanted to be good at tennis they could do so within a few years. THey would go out and hire a well connected tennis coach and throw some money at the program. That will not happen since no one cares about tennis or does it bring in students.

 

[Cross Bones]

mc140 I value your opinion seeing how you went to a private school and now coach in the South Suburbs, you seem to be critical of both sides of the discussion at times... so I ask; "what would you do to high school sports in the state, and why?"

 

[mc140]

Originally posted by Cross Bones:
mc140 I value your opinion seeing how you went to a private school and now coach in the South Suburbs, you seem to be critical of both sides of the discussion at times... so I ask; "what would you do to high school sports in the state, and why?"

There is not much you can do to stop parents from gaming the system. The success factor should apply to public schools along with private schools. That would be the most fair way to go about it. Separation does nothing to do with public schools that are able to manipulate the system.

 

[Cross Bones]

But what about those that arent gaming the system? You would go with a success factor and no multiplier?

 

[mc140]

Originally posted by Cross Bones:
But what about those that arent gaming the system? You would go with a success factor and no multiplier?

Any small school that wins consistently recieves move ins from neighboring towns and they are no longer the same as a school typical of their size. I would keep things the same except include the upcoming success factor to public schools along with private. The IHSA has no legal power or the staff to enforce much. There is not much they can do.

The two easiest places to win in the IHSA are a small private school with money and a public school with admins who will let a coach bring anyone in that can play.