the young lady was Tubman's girlfriend for several months..she wanted to have relations one last time..Lloyd related this to me .
Question for Patrick Loney... Lloyd Tubman?
- Thread starter sluggercatfan
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It is beyond ridiculous for you to think your HEARSAY BASED ASSUMPTIONS in the Tubman case are totally correct and everyone else's EVIDENCE BASED CONCLUSIONS are false.
If you bothered to read the university code of student conduct you would understand that it is explicitly written broadly. In fact it states and I quote;
"The purpose of publishing disciplinary regulations is to give students general notice of behavior that is expected and behavior that is prohibited by the University. This Code is not written with the specificity of a criminal statute and is not intended to be interpreted with the specificity of a criminal statute."
Further it states...
"Disciplinary proceedings may be instituted against a student charged with conduct that potentially violates both the criminal law and this Code (that is, if both possible violations result from the same factual situation) without regard to the pendency of civil or criminal litigation in court or criminal arrest and prosecution. Proceedings under this Code may be carried out prior to, simultaneously with, or following civil or criminal proceedings off campus at the discretion of Dean of Students. Determinations made or sanctions imposed under this Code shall not be subject to change because criminal charges arising out of the same facts giving rise to violations of University rules were dismissed, reduced, or resolved in favor or against the criminal law defendant"
Truth is that there are several points within the code that could be used as reasons to deny admission because of how broadly the policy is written.
Look, it isn't going to bother me if Tubman was allowed back in school. But I'd say that it is highly unlikely that it will happen. Tubman couldn't of had worse timing with his accusation coming on the heels of the Winston and Vanderbilt cases...the $950,000 settlement FSU announced today in regards to the Winston case doesn't help him any either.
Once again I will ask you... What rule did he break that had evidence enough behind it to keep him from continuing his education at the University... I don't think you can actually find any except for the fact of being sent before a politically correct board who believed the young ladies story with no evidence... hell underneath this rule if the women on campus wanted to could have 70% of the males kicked out of the university if they got pissed off at the guys ,which is I think is totally at play and is the main cause in this case.
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Once again I will say, I don't think anybody on this board was on the grand jury or in on the UK hearing so none of us knows what the evidence was. Why don't you attempt to get some transcripts so we can all see what the evidence is?
So, UK isn't going to risk the heat of the liberal news media's portrayal of the school. That's the end result of this whole case. Regardless of whether Mr. Tubman is innocent or not, the school is going to side with NOT because it's the politically correct thing to do.
Why not just admit it?
Why not just admit it?
slugger, there were texts that were passed between the two. Do you know the contents of those texts?
What I know or what you know isn't really important. What is important is what was said and argued at Tubman's multiple hearings before the SCB. Do you know what was said? What evidence was presented?
You seem to be stuck on the fact that they somehow needed to prove that he raped the girl. Nothing could be further from the truth. Simple sexual harassment could be enough for them to deny his admission. Maybe he sent her a "dick pix". I don't know. Point is, neither do you. If you can't handle that there just might be something out there that you're not aware of...I'm not sure what else I can say. You don't want to believe anything therefore you dismiss any and all other possibilities.
Dude, the only assumption I've made is that there is likely evidence and facts that none of us know. So unless you claim and believe that you and others know everything that there is to know about the case, any conclusions drawn are done so on a incomplete data set.
Or perhaps they just don't want to write the same check that FSU had to write today?
I don't sit on the SCB so I won't pretend to speak for their actions. Assume what you want.
"Dude", I will as will you.
That's my point.
EVERY angle that YOU have ASSUMED has been slanted toward the decision of the SCB. So, actually YOU do "speak for their actions".
My understanding from the person I talk to who knows LT is that SHE initiated the rendezvous and coerced him to meet her for sex ...but to hell with his side of the story ...so what makes her right in your eyes and it sure seems that , like the university you are only interested in not getting sued or looking bad for the elite liberal media..
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Of which the girl got 250k of 950k and the lawyers got the rest...what the hell is that all about...
Fuzz, why do you go off the cliff every time someone has an opinion on this, was it your daughter or family member? If not remember your opinion means nothing too, so where's your proof?
Wow, it seems someone hasn't got a problem with thinking he is guilty but he hates for others to have a different opinion, real classy fuzz.
DA, ignore fuzz, he has an agenda here that we just don't know about. Nobody gets this upset over some kid who could have been falsely accused. Besides he's a legal genius, just ask him?
My recollection from the police report that was once available online...can no longer find a link to it...it was alleged that he in fact contacted her about coming to her dorm and that she said she didn't want him to do so. That he showed up anyway. Whoever would have access to the phone records could verify or debunk that part of the story. But phone records wouldn't prove rape.
Trying to avoid being sued is not an unreasonable thing to do. In fact, the girl has already filed a complaint against UK because they have given him more than the normal amount of appeals so the likelihood that a lawsuit would follow if he were admitted appears quite high. But why should you be concerned about UK being sued? Nothing is coming out of your pocket other than the taxpayer money that would be used to pay the lawyers and the plaintiff. So why should you care? The officials at UK have a fiduciary responsibility to the people of the state so it is their responsibility to care.
So only "liberals" are concerned with public image? Pretty sure I saw on Fox yesterday the report about FSU paying out most of $1 million in the Winston case. I guess Fox is part of that "liberal media" these days.
Lastly, you continue to say that I am interested in UK not being sued, that what I have said somehow equates to what I want. I've stated numerous times that I want Tubman to return so I'm not sure where you are getting that? I can separate the things I want and the things I understand...they don't always have to be in harmony.
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anon_013cn8yrfncx2
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Bad timing as one post suggested? But there's been more recent events on the other side. The phony UVA rape story exposed as a hoax mainly. Fox News did a special on this issue high-lighting the lack of due process in these cases. The uber liberal PC correct student tribunals are extremely flawed. Don't know a thing about the Tubman case except what's been posted on here.
What has been posted would support a severe case of injustice. Tubmans supporters should get the fox report if they seriously want to challenge the University's ruling. Maybe even try to get Fox behind them.
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. That is what I expect happened. And I am in favor of the death penalty for forcible rape.
What has been posted would support a severe case of injustice. Tubmans supporters should get the fox report if they seriously want to challenge the University's ruling. Maybe even try to get Fox behind them.
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. That is what I expect happened. And I am in favor of the death penalty for forcible rape.
Only reporting the news...saw where she got 250k while the lawyers got 700k..what the hell kind of deal is that? Thought lawyers only got 33-40%
Usually 33-40% plus expenses.
From an article on the case...
Though Thrasher(FSU president) said in his statement that Kinsman (the girl) will receive $250,000 of the settlement and her attorneys will get $700,000, Kinsman’s lawyer, John Clune, said that was not true and the attorneys fees “are not going to be anything close to $700,000. … We had no need to break down that amount.”
Clune pointed to the settlement document, which provides the breakdown cited by Thrasher but also notes in the following paragraph that the breakdown “does not necessarily reflect the allocation between Kinsman and her counsel.”
During this settlement discussion, because the law about these kinds of cases and attorney fees is crap, the plaintiff adds to her damages the calculation of what her attorney fees are to date and then estimates what they will be should they need to go to trial and win. So, the plaintiff's attorney is being honest, but FSU is also. Their settlement included a ridiculous attorney fee that was not 33-45%, but was rather an hourly calculation using a loadstar.
From September:
A grand jury declined to indict Tubman on rape charges in February, but a Title IX hearing at UK, which uses a preponderance of evidence as its burden of proof, had previously ruled against Tubman, permanently suspending him from the university, according to the Herald-Leader. A University Appeals Board ruled against Tubman, a former Seneca High student from Louisville, at two subsequent hearings. But according to the complaint provided to the Herald-Leader, Tubman was granted a third appeal which has yet to be scheduled.
The civil rights complaint filed against the university alleges “the University of Kentucky has condoned, permitted and engaged in a hostile environment against the victim of a sexual assault,” by continuing the appeals process, the Herald-Leader reported.
Tubman’s first appeal resulted from his inability to appear for the initial Oct. 8 hearing because he was at a court proceeding. The second appeal was based on the accuser not appearing for the second hearing, though the complaint noted two employees of UK’s Violence Intervention Program Center told her appearing could compromise the ongoing criminal investigation. The accuser participated in the third hearing by phone, but Tubman appealed again on the grounds that two police officers had testified together during the hearing and his advisor was not allowed to whisper to him.
A grand jury declined to indict Tubman on rape charges in February, but a Title IX hearing at UK, which uses a preponderance of evidence as its burden of proof, had previously ruled against Tubman, permanently suspending him from the university, according to the Herald-Leader. A University Appeals Board ruled against Tubman, a former Seneca High student from Louisville, at two subsequent hearings. But according to the complaint provided to the Herald-Leader, Tubman was granted a third appeal which has yet to be scheduled.
The civil rights complaint filed against the university alleges “the University of Kentucky has condoned, permitted and engaged in a hostile environment against the victim of a sexual assault,” by continuing the appeals process, the Herald-Leader reported.
Tubman’s first appeal resulted from his inability to appear for the initial Oct. 8 hearing because he was at a court proceeding. The second appeal was based on the accuser not appearing for the second hearing, though the complaint noted two employees of UK’s Violence Intervention Program Center told her appearing could compromise the ongoing criminal investigation. The accuser participated in the third hearing by phone, but Tubman appealed again on the grounds that two police officers had testified together during the hearing and his advisor was not allowed to whisper to him.
I doubt she has standing to contest the process provided Tubman, especially since there has been no harm to her. The kid was removed from school and shamed. What more can the University do? One must question her motivations.
She hasn't sued the school, only filed a complaint. A complaint that could set the groundwork for a suit if UK continued procedures to allow Tubman back into school. In other words...it was a shot across the bow.
Agree totally. Bad news is that big settlement is exactly why Tubman will almost certainly never be back. If UK brought him back, and he was ever accused of something similar, theyd get crushed with a title IX lawsuit. Theyre not going to incur that type of potential exposure.
Which is a false assumption. Its not what you know, its what you can prove. We saw all the "proof" in the grand jury testimony - there was nothing other than her word. No physical evidence consistent with forced sex. Her case is and was total complete garbage.
What would happen if he wouldve called and reported he was raped under the same set of facts?
"The ķid was removed from school and shamed"...the young lady won and accomplished her objective